MAFIA 92 - The return of the Witchfinder General [GAME THREAD]

[ND]

prob. Like I said dip&war is odd, but TvTvT/3rd is my read on it.

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

vibes

worecj - yeah town, but also isn't he the guy who would do that and then end up being mafia? I'm going to sit on my hands until day 5 when I repeat this argument, you all kill me and then go after him. My honest take when reading EoD was that I would have switched to him as a wagon, but also if ifs and buts could be candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry christmas

Dipandwar - He's totally scrambling in a way only a towny does. He's more freaked now than he was day 1, folks need to get over this.

Will - tbh I read him as town and he's tunneling. I'd be impressed if this was his mafia game but also he is supposed to be pretty good. Slight town.

Foodcoats - My fav choice for death, I think I got him trying to push a wagon he didn't care about on me, and he continues to not care about it.

Brainbomb - We're both 100% VT's and its getting to us. I have been wrong about him before, but I think this time he is wrong about me.

ND - He's a coin flip, only thing he did all day which can be judged, to me, is switching to red, could be self pres. I dont care about him, I've established he is a black hole of bullshit, let's move on

Mimi - I've gone back and forth silently a couple times, being a new player I felt they were mostly town in the beginning but the way they keep shifting their vote as kind of a follower trying to bring around pressure and hedging (something like: I'll move my vote as soon as I get an answer) doesn't feel right. But also new person, so I gotta given it some bandwidth, most malleable read going forward.

Vecna - He lurking, but less than normal? I feel like he feels town but I don't have a good scope of what mafia him looks like. Slight town for now.

KingofPirates - I just like his vibe, pretty high in town rankings for me, he analysis feels genuine and I voted along with him on red in spite of foodcoats being on it too because I bought the vibe of him.

damo - guy I have a hard time reading, and usually scum read in isolation. Kind of null on him this game. Which probably leans town when I throw away my bias

bozo - felt off this game, I normally agree with most of the things he says, and now it feels like he is not being his normal self. I can't tell if its that he showed up late and is just going through the motions or not, but I have scum vibes

Bunny - I usually read him as scum, isolating for bias i think he is coming off more towny this game but also hasnt done anything of note besides throw up a vote on dip and staying there, he didn't like dip theorizing about will and bozo ganging up on ghug? yeah but theyre also the two guys who sling every possibility out there and try and make sense of it. Filtering my bias, slight town, def in character

Ghug and RHK - They have nothing to link them, I just feel the same way about them, generally reading them as more scummy then usual, respecting their game enough to think they'd be doing more normally. Ghug was poking me and ND for wagon potential early, ghug does that as town and scum to see who takes the bait, but the dip and worecj votes I don't buy a town ghug doing as much. The vote for worcej with the "i think he's town though" is either the kind of thing scum ghug does or is a bridge too far for town ghug to do in order to increase his plausible bandwidth of town behavior for future scum games where I think he deserves to die for it. RHK's votes all screamed like of conviction and gives off the vibe of someone going throw the motions to seem active enough to not draw suspicion but has no desire to contribute in any meaningful way to the game. I could see this as a mafia trying to end up where other mafia aren't when the hammer comes down or a 3rd party who is just trying to fly under the radar. I usually don't see rhk as scummy, but he has been since the get go for me. I think one of ghug or rhk is probably the last of the 3 mafia between them. Maybe one is mafia, one is 3rd party.

Tl;dr: a fair bit of town reads, besides mimi and ND who are coin flips, foodcoats and bozo are probably scum, ghug and rhk are my picks for 3rd scum or 3rd party. If worcej lives a long time, he is probably a sly 3rd scum tho

Worlds largest hedge

I’d like you to explain a few things

How did you become so confident in Brain town?

Why do you believe I am tunneled? Do you disagree with my points about Dip’s playstyle being different than his normal game?

Also how do you feel the EOD wagons affect your reads? I dont really see much from here

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

bare through the misspellings, I wrote my reads half sober and then the other half after delicious dinner and whiskey

Does whisky make you hedge more?

[DemonRHK]

Alright let's solve.

Will/bozo/food

Spirit is the 3P.

gg go next

[ghug]

I'm probably gonna not be around all day.

Think worcej is probably town. Will likely is too if worcej is because he voted for him there at the end after defending him and there's no reason scum does that to town over another town.

I've been finding Dip irritating but I don't think it's actually scummy.
I've been finding Bunny not irritating which I do think is actually scummy.
Mimi is the foxcastle sort of new player we're going to be thanks to scumread if she is scum.

If I die kill bozo or ND because they deserve it.

[foodcoats]

Sorry Red. GG.

[DiplomacyandWarfare]

Brainbomb - We're both 100% VT's and its getting to us. I have been wrong about him before, but I think this time he is wrong about me.

Worlds largest hedge

I’d like you to explain a few things

How did you become so confident in Brain town?

Why do you believe I am tunneled? Do you disagree with my points about Dip’s playstyle being different than his normal game?

Also how do you feel the EOD wagons affect your reads? I dont really see much from here

More specifically, Spirit is confident that brainbomb is a VT. One role in particular could know this for sure - Witch, the 3p

[damo666]

Brainbomb - We're both 100% VT's and its getting to us. I have been wrong about him before, but I think this time he is wrong about me.

Worlds largest hedge

I’d like you to explain a few things

How did you become so confident in Brain town?

Why do you believe I am tunneled? Do you disagree with my points about Dip’s playstyle being different than his normal game?

Also how do you feel the EOD wagons affect your reads? I dont really see much from here

More specifically, Spirit is confident that brainbomb is a VT. One role in particular could know this for sure - Witch, the 3p

Brain's opening post was a VT claim.

[DiplomacyandWarfare]

Worlds largest hedge

I’d like you to explain a few things

How did you become so confident in Brain town?

Why do you believe I am tunneled? Do you disagree with my points about Dip’s playstyle being different than his normal game?

Also how do you feel the EOD wagons affect your reads? I dont really see much from here

More specifically, Spirit is confident that brainbomb is a VT. One role in particular could know this for sure - Witch, the 3p

Brain's opening post was a VT claim.

which means precisely nothing

[SpiritoftheRadio]

Worlds largest hedge

I’d like you to explain a few things

How did you become so confident in Brain town?

Why do you believe I am tunneled? Do you disagree with my points about Dip’s playstyle being different than his normal game?

Also how do you feel the EOD wagons affect your reads? I dont really see much from here

More specifically, Spirit is confident that brainbomb is a VT. One role in particular could know this for sure - Witch, the 3p

Brain's opening post was a VT claim.

Yes, and i replied "bummer, me too"

[SpiritoftheRadio]

vibes

worecj - yeah town, but also isn't he the guy who would do that and then end up being mafia? I'm going to sit on my hands until day 5 when I repeat this argument, you all kill me and then go after him. My honest take when reading EoD was that I would have switched to him as a wagon, but also if ifs and buts could be candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry christmas

Dipandwar - He's totally scrambling in a way only a towny does. He's more freaked now than he was day 1, folks need to get over this.

Will - tbh I read him as town and he's tunneling. I'd be impressed if this was his mafia game but also he is supposed to be pretty good. Slight town.

Foodcoats - My fav choice for death, I think I got him trying to push a wagon he didn't care about on me, and he continues to not care about it.

Brainbomb - We're both 100% VT's and its getting to us. I have been wrong about him before, but I think this time he is wrong about me.

ND - He's a coin flip, only thing he did all day which can be judged, to me, is switching to red, could be self pres. I dont care about him, I've established he is a black hole of bullshit, let's move on

Mimi - I've gone back and forth silently a couple times, being a new player I felt they were mostly town in the beginning but the way they keep shifting their vote as kind of a follower trying to bring around pressure and hedging (something like: I'll move my vote as soon as I get an answer) doesn't feel right. But also new person, so I gotta given it some bandwidth, most malleable read going forward.

Vecna - He lurking, but less than normal? I feel like he feels town but I don't have a good scope of what mafia him looks like. Slight town for now.

KingofPirates - I just like his vibe, pretty high in town rankings for me, he analysis feels genuine and I voted along with him on red in spite of foodcoats being on it too because I bought the vibe of him.

damo - guy I have a hard time reading, and usually scum read in isolation. Kind of null on him this game. Which probably leans town when I throw away my bias

bozo - felt off this game, I normally agree with most of the things he says, and now it feels like he is not being his normal self. I can't tell if its that he showed up late and is just going through the motions or not, but I have scum vibes

Bunny - I usually read him as scum, isolating for bias i think he is coming off more towny this game but also hasnt done anything of note besides throw up a vote on dip and staying there, he didn't like dip theorizing about will and bozo ganging up on ghug? yeah but theyre also the two guys who sling every possibility out there and try and make sense of it. Filtering my bias, slight town, def in character

Ghug and RHK - They have nothing to link them, I just feel the same way about them, generally reading them as more scummy then usual, respecting their game enough to think they'd be doing more normally. Ghug was poking me and ND for wagon potential early, ghug does that as town and scum to see who takes the bait, but the dip and worecj votes I don't buy a town ghug doing as much. The vote for worcej with the "i think he's town though" is either the kind of thing scum ghug does or is a bridge too far for town ghug to do in order to increase his plausible bandwidth of town behavior for future scum games where I think he deserves to die for it. RHK's votes all screamed like of conviction and gives off the vibe of someone going throw the motions to seem active enough to not draw suspicion but has no desire to contribute in any meaningful way to the game. I could see this as a mafia trying to end up where other mafia aren't when the hammer comes down or a 3rd party who is just trying to fly under the radar. I usually don't see rhk as scummy, but he has been since the get go for me. I think one of ghug or rhk is probably the last of the 3 mafia between them. Maybe one is mafia, one is 3rd party.

Tl;dr: a fair bit of town reads, besides mimi and ND who are coin flips, foodcoats and bozo are probably scum, ghug and rhk are my picks for 3rd scum or 3rd party. If worcej lives a long time, he is probably a sly 3rd scum tho

Worlds largest hedge

I’d like you to explain a few things

How did you become so confident in Brain town?

Why do you believe I am tunneled? Do you disagree with my points about Dip’s playstyle being different than his normal game?

Also how do you feel the EOD wagons affect your reads? I dont really see much from here

The only things I did which could be considered a hedge was say ND and Mimi were coin flips. I gave you my theory mafia team + 3p, in no world is that a hedge. You are tunneled because you're only capable of reading everything through a narrative where dip is scum and fill in all other details based on that. I disagree with your read, therefore I must be scummy and therefore hedged in my reads, evidence isn't there though, friend.

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

Snip

Worlds largest hedge

I’d like you to explain a few things

How did you become so confident in Brain town?

Why do you believe I am tunneled? Do you disagree with my points about Dip’s playstyle being different than his normal game?

Also how do you feel the EOD wagons affect your reads? I dont really see much from here

The only things I did which could be considered a hedge was say ND and Mimi were coin flips. I gave you my theory mafia team + 3p, in no world is that a hedge. You are tunneled because you're only capable of reading everything through a narrative where dip is scum and fill in all other details based on that. I disagree with your read, therefore I must be scummy and therefore hedged in my reads, evidence isn't there though, friend.

“Yeah town, but isn’t he the guy who would do that and then end up being mafia?”

“I’d be impressed if this was his mafia game but also he is supposed to be pretty good”

“Hes a coin flip”

“I felt they were mostly town in the beginning but the way they keep shifting their vote as kind of a follower trying to bring around pressure and hedging (something like: I'll move my vote as soon as I get an answer) doesn't feel right. But also new person, so I gotta given it some bandwidth, most malleable read going forward.”

“He lurking, but less than normal? I feel like he feels town but I don't have a good scope of what mafia him looks like. Slight town for now.”


Then we have different definitions of a hedge. A hedge is where you give a read on something but intentionally offer a possible explanation as to why this could be wrong. This is used to make it so mafia players can easily change reads on a dime based on what thread is feeling.This is done frequently and more often from mafia who would like an excuse to flip flop reads later on. (There are some examples above)

And no. I do not scumread people for disagreeing with me. People who I have outwardly disagreed with, such as Worcej, are in my townreads.

Evidence is not there, thats correct

However there is zero evidence that we have at all. Its a crapshoot, especially since the most justification for the Red D1 kill was ‘well they were lurking’

Therefore I am reading into things without much evidence

Thats the game

[SpiritoftheRadio]

Worlds largest hedge

I’d like you to explain a few things

How did you become so confident in Brain town?

Why do you believe I am tunneled? Do you disagree with my points about Dip’s playstyle being different than his normal game?

Also how do you feel the EOD wagons affect your reads? I dont really see much from here

The only things I did which could be considered a hedge was say ND and Mimi were coin flips. I gave you my theory mafia team + 3p, in no world is that a hedge. You are tunneled because you're only capable of reading everything through a narrative where dip is scum and fill in all other details based on that. I disagree with your read, therefore I must be scummy and therefore hedged in my reads, evidence isn't there though, friend.

“Yeah town, but isn’t he the guy who would do that and then end up being mafia?”

“I’d be impressed if this was his mafia game but also he is supposed to be pretty good”

“Hes a coin flip”

“I felt they were mostly town in the beginning but the way they keep shifting their vote as kind of a follower trying to bring around pressure and hedging (something like: I'll move my vote as soon as I get an answer) doesn't feel right. But also new person, so I gotta given it some bandwidth, most malleable read going forward.”

“He lurking, but less than normal? I feel like he feels town but I don't have a good scope of what mafia him looks like. Slight town for now.”


Then we have different definitions of a hedge. A hedge is where you give a read on something but intentionally offer a possible explanation as to why this could be wrong. This is used to make it so mafia players can easily change reads on a dime based on what thread is feeling.This is done frequently and more often from mafia who would like an excuse to flip flop reads later on. (There are some examples above)

And no. I do not scumread people for disagreeing with me. People who I have outwardly disagreed with, such as Worcej, are in my townreads.

Evidence is not there, thats correct

However there is zero evidence that we have at all. Its a crapshoot, especially since the most justification for the Red D1 kill was ‘well they were lurking’

Therefore I am reading into things without much evidence

Thats the game

So you brought up the two examples I said were interpretable as hedging, my null reads on ND and mimi, then you edited out several important pieces of two others which make then definitively not hedges (red being what was cut out):
worecj - yeah town, but also isn't he the guy who would do that and then end up being mafia? I'm going to sit on my hands until day 5 when I repeat this argument, you all kill me and then go after him. My honest take when reading EoD was that I would have switched to him as a wagon, but also if ifs and buts could be candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry christmas

Will - tbh I read him as town and he's tunneling. I'd be impressed if this was his mafia game but also he is supposed to be pretty good. Slight town.

I don't think the last one is a hedge, it is a slight town read, and yeah I dont think I remember playing with a scum vecna, dunno what you want. My post was also long and contained many definite statements just as bb being 100% Vt and pretty strong statements about food and bozo being scum.

I'm offering insights and analysis after day 1, you can shit on it if you want, but you're either purposefully misreading what I have said or you're really reading it that way so aggressively you're not noticing you're pressing delete on many things that directly contradict your argument. Either way, you're tunneling, end of story

[Jamiet99uk]

GM NOTE

Dargorygel and I will both be quite busy at EoN.

I will post the "please hold" as close to 11pm GMT as I can. Please be patient after that, if needed.

[ND]

I'm probably gonna not be around all day.

Think worcej is probably town. Will likely is too if worcej is because he voted for him there at the end after defending him and there's no reason scum does that to town over another town.

I've been finding Dip irritating but I don't think it's actually scummy.
I've been finding Bunny not irritating which I do think is actually scummy.
Mimi is the foxcastle sort of new player we're going to be thanks to scumread if she is scum.

If I die kill bozo or ND because they deserve it.

Yeah, you told us all Worcej was town when you voted to eliminate him yesterday. Thanks for repeating yourself.

[ND]

To be fair, your post was kind of a hedge @Spirit

But, at least you tried to write something. Even if it is mostly nonsense.

[miminena]

-Miminena votes for Worcej (never once mentioned earlier by this player btw) and follows Vecna.

to be clear, I was referring to post #647 when I said 'like I said' while voting worcej. I found that preferable to both red and DW by EoD.

also, I hadn't seen will's or vecna's final votes when I put mine in, so it looked like the vote would be tied, which I very much didn't want to happen, hence my switch.

[ND]

reading dw, i don't think there's anything special. they still fall pretty null to me, with a slight lean to mafia, and they seem like they might be more interesting later on. I don't get the best vibes, but they're probably my least favorite wagons out of the current ones. even worcej, who I read as town, would be a better vote imo because they've done so much so far.

@miminena
I had to dredge this up, but I found it. So, you stated that you didn't like DiplomacyandWarfare as a wagon even though you null-slight leaned them as mafia? Instead, you liked a potential Worcej wagon more (who you say you read as town) because they have done so much 'more' what do you mean by that? Because they have interacted with more people?

Timing
Vecna votes for Worcej at 00:04 (4 minutes until phase change)
You (Miminena) vote at 00:01 (1 minute until phase change)
You then vote back at 00:00 (literally moments before Jamie posts) stating "no no tie" in regards to the Red Neurax vote. Vecna also moves back at 00:00 just before you do.

Questions:
1. You said you didn't like the DiplomacyandWarfare wagon a few times throughout the day. Based on that post number, you even said that you were null-slight scum leaning them. Why the hesitance here? Why vote for someone you thought was town over them?

2. I find it believable that you would not have seen Vecna's final vote considering they were both right on top of each other at 00:00, but you must have seen his first vote over to Worcej with three minutes before you changed yours. Why change to Worcej to begin with after stating you were going to vote for Red.

Analysis Correction
1. It is true that you mentioned Worcej in an earlier message concerning wagons. I stand corrected in a point that I made. I didn't re-read the entire game when making my analysis only the last two hours as stated for EOD.

Thank you for providing me with a few things to consider.

[miminena]

reading dw, i don't think there's anything special. they still fall pretty null to me, with a slight lean to mafia, and they seem like they might be more interesting later on. I don't get the best vibes, but they're probably my least favorite wagons out of the current ones. even worcej, who I read as town, would be a better vote imo because they've done so much so far.

@miminena
I had to dredge this up, but I found it. So, you stated that you didn't like DiplomacyandWarfare as a wagon even though you null-slight leaned them as mafia? Instead, you liked a potential Worcej wagon more (who you say you read as town) because they have done so much 'more' what do you mean by that? Because they have interacted with more people?

yes, and they were one of the top posters throughout, whereas dw was relatively low posting until an hour before EoD, thus I thought that we would get more info from flipping worcej

Timing
Vecna votes for Worcej at 00:04 (4 minutes until phase change)
You (Miminena) vote at 00:01 (1 minute until phase change)
You then vote back at 00:00 (literally moments before Jamie posts) stating "no no tie" in regards to the Red Neurax vote. Vecna also moves back at 00:00 just before you do.

Questions:
1. You said you didn't like the DiplomacyandWarfare wagon a few times throughout the day. Based on that post number, you even said that you were null-slight scum leaning them. Why the hesitance here? Why vote for someone you thought was town over them?

in my (possibly misguided) opinion, reads from day one probably don't have much weight, especially in my case since I don't have meta context, so it would be best to vote based on what would give more information rather than any reads.

2. I find it believable that you would not have seen Vecna's final vote considering they were both right on top of each other at 00:00, but you must have seen his first vote over to Worcej with three minutes before you changed yours. Why change to Worcej to begin with after stating you were going to vote for Red.

I didn't really want to vote red, they were just my preference if it came down to a tie. my general plan was to sit on Will until EoD to meet participation requirements (see #714 and #781). When worcej came up as a viable wagon, after it was only 2 votes below red's, which is when I voted, I liked it more than voting red, for reasons that I explained previously in this post, so I jumped on it, but it ended up looking like it would go to a tie, thus I moved to red.

Analysis Correction
1. It is true that you mentioned Worcej in an earlier message concerning wagons. I stand corrected in a point that I made. I didn't re-read the entire game when making my analysis only the last two hours as stated for EOD.

Thank you for providing me with a few things to consider.

no problem, I hope my response here makes sense :p

[Jamiet99uk]

NIGHT HAS ENDED - PLEASE HOLD
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