M1034: SOLE SURVIVOR: GAME THREAD

[Jamiet99uk]

We now have a situation where the 10 post rule becomes a bit silly.

I have circa!00% decided to vote Dip but once I vote I have no incentive to post.

darg (mistakenly?) voted early so he has no more reason to post.

dip has no defence

zzzzzz

There are two scum, you know. So, just a thought, but perhaps we can talk about who you think Dip's team mate is.

Is it Ghug?

That would make sense.

Do you think it's odd that damo is this confident?

A little...

[Jamiet99uk]

Why am I being held responsible for this vote?
I wanted a vote based on the %%
I did not ask for you guys to start random bandwagons
I did not ask for darg to start a bandwagon on food
I did not ask for red to tie and leave me under 5 minutes to make a decision

and frankly, I am starting to consider a jamie/darg team because they are making a very concentrated effort to pin yesterday's vote on me

You don't see how your vote would look like an attempt to save me?

I see that. It is entirely decent evidence that is being ridiculously overused.
Why doesn't anybody else see that there were three other people who voted for that wagon?
The same people who worked to develop the food wagon are now conveniently blaming it on me for a decision I had 5 minutes to make and, frankly, I didn't expect to have to make!

Objection!

I had absolutely nothing to do with the Foodcoats wagon, as a matter of fact.

[Jamiet99uk]

4 food voters
straight is dead
ghug gets a pass, more or less, for being a big wagon at the time

darg, well into d1 and having a lot of time to consider it, being able to start a wagon on literally anyone, chose that out of all the players currently present, food was the scummiest

I, having 2 minutes to consider it, being able to choose between ghug and food, panicked and voted the player with less posts

I made a bad decision in a bad situation.
Darg made a bad decision in a good situation.

I know none of you are dumb enough to think I was in control here
except possibly jamie*

You are focussing almost entirely on the Foodcoats wagon.

My focus, as I have now re-stated multiple times, (and as Ghug has even highlighted himself!) is on the Ghug wagon and the fact that you would not vote for Ghug when it came to the crunch, despite not long earlier having listed Ghug as one of the top 3 people you "wanted to kill".

So let's talk less about Foodcoats, and more about Ghug, please.

You were presented with a choice between someone you apparently had mild suspicions about (Food), versus someone you strongly scumread (Ghug), and yet you did not pick the strong scumread - instead, you flipped the other guy.

You have been challenged about this multiple times and the best you can come up with is "I didn't like Bona's vote". This does not stack up, for two reasons:

1. As has been pointed out, Bona's vote on Ghug was there from the start of the game. Crucially, it was there when you made your reads list; it was there when you said you'd vote for Ghug. It was the first vote on a wagon you indicated you were keen to join and yet when the opportunity to flip Ghug was placed in front of you, you voted the opposite way.

2. In your reads list (the same reads list where you had Ghug in your top 3 scum), you had Bona as your second-highest townread (excluding yourself, obv). Now you want us to believe that you refused to vote for one of your top scumreads, because you were suspicious about the early vote cast by one of your strongest townreads! Preposterous.

So with that in mind, either your reason for NOT voting Ghug does not stack up, OR your Page 16 reads list was fake.

[Jamiet99uk]

(Or, both, of course).

[damo666]

Maybe it would be better to vote ghug first. If he doesn't flip scum Jamie's case falls apart.

[damo666]

4 food voters
straight is dead
ghug gets a pass, more or less, for being a big wagon at the time

darg, well into d1 and having a lot of time to consider it, being able to start a wagon on literally anyone, chose that out of all the players currently present, food was the scummiest

I, having 2 minutes to consider it, being able to choose between ghug and food, panicked and voted the player with less posts

I made a bad decision in a bad situation.
Darg made a bad decision in a good situation.

I know none of you are dumb enough to think I was in control here
except possibly jamie*

Why does ghug get a pass? (more or less).

[DiplomacyandWarfare]

4 food voters
straight is dead
ghug gets a pass, more or less, for being a big wagon at the time

darg, well into d1 and having a lot of time to consider it, being able to start a wagon on literally anyone, chose that out of all the players currently present, food was the scummiest

I, having 2 minutes to consider it, being able to choose between ghug and food, panicked and voted the player with less posts

I made a bad decision in a bad situation.
Darg made a bad decision in a good situation.

I know none of you are dumb enough to think I was in control here
except possibly jamie*

Why does ghug get a pass? (more or less).

Because unless another wagon started, ghug was probably dead
Generally, starting another wagon while you yourself are a big one is largely nai

[DiplomacyandWarfare]

4 food voters
straight is dead
ghug gets a pass, more or less, for being a big wagon at the time

darg, well into d1 and having a lot of time to consider it, being able to start a wagon on literally anyone, chose that out of all the players currently present, food was the scummiest

I, having 2 minutes to consider it, being able to choose between ghug and food, panicked and voted the player with less posts

I made a bad decision in a bad situation.
Darg made a bad decision in a good situation.

I know none of you are dumb enough to think I was in control here
except possibly jamie*

You are focussing almost entirely on the Foodcoats wagon.

My focus, as I have now re-stated multiple times, (and as Ghug has even highlighted himself!) is on the Ghug wagon and the fact that you would not vote for Ghug when it came to the crunch, despite not long earlier having listed Ghug as one of the top 3 people you "wanted to kill".

So let's talk less about Foodcoats, and more about Ghug, please.

You were presented with a choice between someone you apparently had mild suspicions about (Food), versus someone you strongly scumread (Ghug), and yet you did not pick the strong scumread - instead, you flipped the other guy.

You have been challenged about this multiple times and the best you can come up with is "I didn't like Bona's vote". This does not stack up, for two reasons:

1. As has been pointed out, Bona's vote on Ghug was there from the start of the game. Crucially, it was there when you made your reads list; it was there when you said you'd vote for Ghug. It was the first vote on a wagon you indicated you were keen to join and yet when the opportunity to flip Ghug was placed in front of you, you voted the opposite way.

2. In your reads list (the same reads list where you had Ghug in your top 3 scum), you had Bona as your second-highest townread (excluding yourself, obv). Now you want us to believe that you refused to vote for one of your top scumreads, because you were suspicious about the early vote cast by one of your strongest townreads! Preposterous.

So with that in mind, either your reason for NOT voting Ghug does not stack up, OR your Page 16 reads list was fake.

[DiplomacyandWarfare]

4 food voters
straight is dead
ghug gets a pass, more or less, for being a big wagon at the time

darg, well into d1 and having a lot of time to consider it, being able to start a wagon on literally anyone, chose that out of all the players currently present, food was the scummiest

I, having 2 minutes to consider it, being able to choose between ghug and food, panicked and voted the player with less posts

I made a bad decision in a bad situation.
Darg made a bad decision in a good situation.

I know none of you are dumb enough to think I was in control here
except possibly jamie*

You are focussing almost entirely on the Foodcoats wagon.

My focus, as I have now re-stated multiple times, (and as Ghug has even highlighted himself!) is on the Ghug wagon and the fact that you would not vote for Ghug when it came to the crunch, despite not long earlier having listed Ghug as one of the top 3 people you "wanted to kill".

So let's talk less about Foodcoats, and more about Ghug, please.

You were presented with a choice between someone you apparently had mild suspicions about (Food), versus someone you strongly scumread (Ghug), and yet you did not pick the strong scumread - instead, you flipped the other guy.

You have been challenged about this multiple times and the best you can come up with is "I didn't like Bona's vote". This does not stack up, for two reasons:

1. As has been pointed out, Bona's vote on Ghug was there from the start of the game. Crucially, it was there when you made your reads list; it was there when you said you'd vote for Ghug. It was the first vote on a wagon you indicated you were keen to join and yet when the opportunity to flip Ghug was placed in front of you, you voted the opposite way.

2. In your reads list (the same reads list where you had Ghug in your top 3 scum), you had Bona as your second-highest townread (excluding yourself, obv). Now you want us to believe that you refused to vote for one of your top scumreads, because you were suspicious about the early vote cast by one of your strongest townreads! Preposterous.

So with that in mind, either your reason for NOT voting Ghug does not stack up, OR your Page 16 reads list was fake.

1st bolded statement: yes, clearly the two players next to each other in my readlist have irrevocably enormous differences in reads between them.

2nd bolded statement, again, that is the exact reason I didn't like the ghug wagon/bona vote on it. It was based on a (probably) accidental vote at the start of the game (and probably the other votes were bandwagoned on that to some extent)

3rd bolded statement: At the risk of repeating myself, I had two minutes to make that decision. The two players were roughly equal in terms of my reads, and Red surprised me by tying the vote, which forced me to make a decision AND to make it in 2 minutes. I do not take responsibility for the result of that vote.

[DiplomacyandWarfare]

Yes, what would a scum motivation for voting early be? Thoughtless, yes... maybe silly... but what does it gain me as scum?

I remain satisfied with my vote though.

i didn't call the vote fake - i live in a glass house here, and i throw no stones. the thing i didn't like was the thing that i was directly responding to

Umsy umsy... I did.not thonk, write, or say that you said that what I said was fake.

From the pov from which I view this gameworld, dip accused me of fakery.

Yes, that is correct. I accuse you of faking a "mistake" vote at the start of the day.

[dargorygel]

i didn't call the vote fake - i live in a glass house here, and i throw no stones. the thing i didn't like was the thing that i was directly responding to

Umsy umsy... I did.not thonk, write, or say that you said that what I said was fake.

From the pov from which I view this gameworld, dip accused me of fakery.

Yes, that is correct. I accuse you of faking a "mistake" vote at the start of the day.

Yes, that is clear. What is the scum value of that play?

[Jamiet99uk]

Maybe it would be better to vote ghug first. If he doesn't flip scum Jamie's case falls apart.

Are you saying this because Ghug is scumreading you?

[Jamiet99uk]

4 food voters
straight is dead
ghug gets a pass, more or less, for being a big wagon at the time

darg, well into d1 and having a lot of time to consider it, being able to start a wagon on literally anyone, chose that out of all the players currently present, food was the scummiest

I, having 2 minutes to consider it, being able to choose between ghug and food, panicked and voted the player with less posts

I made a bad decision in a bad situation.
Darg made a bad decision in a good situation.

I know none of you are dumb enough to think I was in control here
except possibly jamie*

You are focussing almost entirely on the Foodcoats wagon.

My focus, as I have now re-stated multiple times, (and as Ghug has even highlighted himself!) is on the Ghug wagon and the fact that you would not vote for Ghug when it came to the crunch, despite not long earlier having listed Ghug as one of the top 3 people you "wanted to kill".

So let's talk less about Foodcoats, and more about Ghug, please.

You were presented with a choice between someone you apparently had mild suspicions about (Food), versus someone you strongly scumread (Ghug), and yet you did not pick the strong scumread - instead, you flipped the other guy.

You have been challenged about this multiple times and the best you can come up with is "I didn't like Bona's vote". This does not stack up, for two reasons:

1. As has been pointed out, Bona's vote on Ghug was there from the start of the game. Crucially, it was there when you made your reads list; it was there when you said you'd vote for Ghug. It was the first vote on a wagon you indicated you were keen to join and yet when the opportunity to flip Ghug was placed in front of you, you voted the opposite way.

2. In your reads list (the same reads list where you had Ghug in your top 3 scum), you had Bona as your second-highest townread (excluding yourself, obv). Now you want us to believe that you refused to vote for one of your top scumreads, because you were suspicious about the early vote cast by one of your strongest townreads! Preposterous.

So with that in mind, either your reason for NOT voting Ghug does not stack up, OR your Page 16 reads list was fake.

1st bolded statement: yes, clearly the two players next to each other in my readlist have irrevocably enormous differences in reads between them.

2nd bolded statement, again, that is the exact reason I didn't like the ghug wagon/bona vote on it. It was based on a (probably) accidental vote at the start of the game (and probably the other votes were bandwagoned on that to some extent)

3rd bolded statement: At the risk of repeating myself, I had two minutes to make that decision. The two players were roughly equal in terms of my reads, and Red surprised me by tying the vote, which forced me to make a decision AND to make it in 2 minutes. I do not take responsibility for the result of that vote.

1. They weren't next to each other, though. Foodcoats was two places above Ghug. You scumread ME more than you scumread Foodcoats, according to your own list.

2. Then why didn't you think about that when you listed Ghug in a group of three "people I want to kil today" ?

3. If Foodcoats and Ghug were "roughly equal" scumreads, then why did you draw your "lines" in such a way that they were in two separate groups, with Ghug in the "let's kill" group, and Foodcoats outside that group? Nobody forced you to draw those lines. You decided to make some categories, and you decided to place Ghug into a different category, than Foodcoats.

Your defence does not stack up.

[Jamiet99uk]

Dip&War reads list on Page 16:

"dargorygel
damo666
fo​odcoats

"I would like to see this player dead today" line:

Jamiet99uk
ghug
Red Neurax"

Dip&War defence now:

"At that time I actually scumread all six of those people equally!"

Does. Not. Stack. Up.

[dargorygel]

@jamie old top
a) gHUG or dip first?
b) what do you think of gHUG's reaction to your cases on dip/ghug?

[damo666]

Maybe it would be better to vote ghug first. If he doesn't flip scum Jamie's case falls apart.

Are you saying this because Ghug is scumreading you?

No, I am saying that under your theory Dip's guilt is based on him NOT voting ghug (to avoid killing his scum partner) so is dependent on ghug being scum.

If we vote Dip and he flips town we gain nothing in terms of ghug's alignment. However, if we vote ghug and he flips town there is a reasonable chance Dip is actually town. Therefore I think it is more effective to flip ghug first.

[dargorygel]

Maybe it would be better to vote ghug first. If he doesn't flip scum Jamie's case falls apart.

Are you saying this because Ghug is scumreading you?

No, I am saying that under your theory Dip's guilt is based on him NOT voting ghug (to avoid killing his scum partner) so is dependent on ghug being scum.

If we vote Dip and he flips town we gain nothing in terms of ghug's alignment. However, if we vote ghug and he flips town there is a reasonable chance Dip is actually town. Therefore I think it is more effective to flip ghug first.

Reasonable...
But as I see it, dip's problem is not only found in ghug. Dip's problem here is that he voted severely off his much-pronounced read list. Ghug's scumminess certainly adds a factor that suggests protection. But suspicion on dip is still present, even if dip was merely floundering around at eod and voted for a player in a way that conflicts with his read list. It is not as tight a case, but it still exists.

[Red Neurax]

4 food voters
straight is dead
ghug gets a pass, more or less, for being a big wagon at the time

darg, well into d1 and having a lot of time to consider it, being able to start a wagon on literally anyone, chose that out of all the players currently present, food was the scummiest

I, having 2 minutes to consider it, being able to choose between ghug and food, panicked and voted the player with less posts

I made a bad decision in a bad situation.
Darg made a bad decision in a good situation.

I know none of you are dumb enough to think I was in control here
except possibly jamie*

You are focussing almost entirely on the Foodcoats wagon.

My focus, as I have now re-stated multiple times, (and as Ghug has even highlighted himself!) is on the Ghug wagon and the fact that you would not vote for Ghug when it came to the crunch, despite not long earlier having listed Ghug as one of the top 3 people you "wanted to kill".

So let's talk less about Foodcoats, and more about Ghug, please.

You were presented with a choice between someone you apparently had mild suspicions about (Food), versus someone you strongly scumread (Ghug), and yet you did not pick the strong scumread - instead, you flipped the other guy.

You have been challenged about this multiple times and the best you can come up with is "I didn't like Bona's vote". This does not stack up, for two reasons:

1. As has been pointed out, Bona's vote on Ghug was there from the start of the game. Crucially, it was there when you made your reads list; it was there when you said you'd vote for Ghug. It was the first vote on a wagon you indicated you were keen to join and yet when the opportunity to flip Ghug was placed in front of you, you voted the opposite way.

2. In your reads list (the same reads list where you had Ghug in your top 3 scum), you had Bona as your second-highest townread (excluding yourself, obv). Now you want us to believe that you refused to vote for one of your top scumreads, because you were suspicious about the early vote cast by one of your strongest townreads! Preposterous.

So with that in mind, either your reason for NOT voting Ghug does not stack up, OR your Page 16 reads list was fake.

1st bolded statement: yes, clearly the two players next to each other in my readlist have irrevocably enormous differences in reads between them.

2nd bolded statement, again, that is the exact reason I didn't like the ghug wagon/bona vote on it. It was based on a (probably) accidental vote at the start of the game (and probably the other votes were bandwagoned on that to some extent)

3rd bolded statement: At the risk of repeating myself, I had two minutes to make that decision. The two players were roughly equal in terms of my reads, and Red surprised me by tying the vote, which forced me to make a decision AND to make it in 2 minutes. I do not take responsibility for the result of that vote.

You never answered my question of why you waited so long to vote. You were clearly online with 5 minutes remaining in the day, yet you had not yet voted by that point. At this point, there were two options to vote for, ghug and foodcoats. Voting for anybody else would be a waste as it made no effect on the tally. If you were going to vote for ghug, you would have done so already to keep the possibility of a tie alive. Yet, you still waited until 2 minutes remaining for me. Why? At that point, in all likelihood, I am not going to show up. Yet, you still tried to wait, indicating you wanted to ensure ghug stayed in. Why? He was on your original mafia list

[Jamiet99uk]

@jamie old top
a) gHUG or dip first?
b) what do you think of gHUG's reaction to your cases on dip/ghug?

a) I'm happy with either; if either flips town, then my theory was wrong. If either flips scum, I think it condemns the other.

b) Ghug's reaction was very measured and calm, which is NAI, I think?

[Jamiet99uk]

Maybe it would be better to vote ghug first. If he doesn't flip scum Jamie's case falls apart.

Are you saying this because Ghug is scumreading you?

No, I am saying that under your theory Dip's guilt is based on him NOT voting ghug (to avoid killing his scum partner) so is dependent on ghug being scum.

If we vote Dip and he flips town we gain nothing in terms of ghug's alignment. However, if we vote ghug and he flips town there is a reasonable chance Dip is actually town. Therefore I think it is more effective to flip ghug first.

Hmm actually Damo might have a point here.