Kamala Harris Victory Thread- Our new President

[Jamiet99uk]

So, why did so many people vote for Donald Trump?

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

So, why did so many people vote for Donald Trump?

The NBC exit poll days about a third of voters (99% of which were Republicans) say they were "scared" about the prospect of a Harris victory. I can see being against her policies, or thinking she was a poor candidate, but I'm confused about this — was anyone here "scared" of this potential outcome?

[Octavious]

So, why did so many people vote for Donald Trump?

It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..."
"You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?"
"No," said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."
"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."
"I did," said Ford. "It is."
"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't people get rid of the lizards?"
"It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."
"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"
"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."
"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"
"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?"
"What?"
"I said," said Ford, with an increasing air of urgency creeping into his voice, "have you got any gin?"
"I'll look. Tell me about the lizards."
Ford shrugged again.
"Some people say that the lizards are the best thing that ever happenned to them," he said. "They're completely wrong of course, completely and utterly wrong, but someone's got to say it."
"But that's terrible," said Arthur.
"Listen, bud," said Ford, "if I had one Altairian dollar for every time I heard one bit of the Universe look at another bit of the Universe and say 'That's terrible' I wouldn't be sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.

[CaptainFritz28]

So, why did so many people vote for Donald Trump?

The NBC exit poll days about a third of voters (99% of which were Republicans) say they were "scared" about the prospect of a Harris victory. I can see being against her policies, or thinking she was a poor candidate, but I'm confused about this — was anyone here "scared" of this potential outcome?

Scared? Interesting. I could see being slightly worried about the economy, maybe losing one's job, etc., but scared?

[brainbomb]

This was a pretty clear defeat of everything democrat. They are on pace to lose every aspect of government and seem to have a very old core of bad candidates. The playbook is bad, the ground game was ineffective at inspiring voters. The future of the party is dim; and mainly because being in charge you cannot also be the catalyst for change.

What exit polling showed is people think that the country is overrun with illegal immigrants and that the economy is in shambles. And they do not see democrats as a solution to those issues.

Secondarily exit polling also showed that harris voters cared about womens rights and about integrity of democracy. However it is hard to know if concerns about integrity of democracy was not also trumpers who find the government corrupt.

Its a very hard lesson for the democratic party who will be out of power for a while. The stock market today seemed to be responding very positively to trump.

His policies of eliminating waiting periods for mergers and acquisitions; domestic oil drilling, lower corporate tax rates, and his plan to mass deport millions of people apparently are very exciting to investors and people without a college degree.

With a base of mostly white trash slack jawed imbeciles our country has reached new levels of desperation.

[brainbomb]

Democrats would need a message other than trying to fight for abortion rights and need an inspiring candidate with unique ideas; a non traditional playbook; and a job creator. A person with financial mastery who can win over republicans with better policies than their own

[brainbomb]

Taking all of that away you could win back the white house if Taylor Swift ran for President. It sounds like a joke but she would carry tennessee which would change the whole map.

[Octavious]

Democrats would need a message other than trying to fight for abortion rights and need an inspiring candidate with unique ideas; a non traditional playbook; and a job creator. A person with financial mastery who can win over republicans with better policies than their own

Well yes, making abortion rights the centre of your campaign when those rights were reduced whilst you were in power was a particularly stupid move. If you could have done anything to stop it you would have stopped it, so either you don't really care or you don't have the power to do much about it. The American people aren't daft. They know when when someone is talking out of their arse.

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

Democrats would need a message other than trying to fight for abortion rights and need an inspiring candidate with unique ideas; a non traditional playbook; and a job creator. A person with financial mastery who can win over republicans with better policies than their own

Well yes, making abortion rights the centre of your campaign when those rights were reduced whilst you were in power was a particularly stupid move. If you could have done anything to stop it you would have stopped it, so either you don't really care or you don't have the power to do much about it. The American people aren't daft. They know when when someone is talking out of their arse.

Trump's SC appointees are what reopened the abortion issue, and now he'll have the opportunity to stack one or two more judges on that court. A Dem president really might have changed the (longer-term) balance on this issue.

[brainbomb]

Most people dont have that level of knowledge about the supreme court. They dont monitor how old judges are and what judges are nearing retirement. Its a very politically party line topic to vote on and only the most well informed individuals tend to even understand how that works.

Trump gets support from people who think dems control the weather and all dems want is to give illegal aliens sex changes. Try telling those people they should vote democrat because gay marriage might get repealed

[CaptainFritz28]

Secondarily exit polling also showed that harris voters cared about womens rights and about integrity of democracy. However it is hard to know if concerns about integrity of democracy was not also trumpers who find the government corrupt.

Honestly, both sides accuse the other of being a threat to democracy if they take power, and both are right. Whoever has the power is the greatest threat to democracy, that's just the way it's always been, at least in my lifetime. Power corrupts, it's human nature. So the fact that one party accuses Trump of threatening democracy and the other accuses Harris of threatening democracy really means nothing to me, because both are.

[brainbomb]

A ton of states had ballot measures to address abortion and the results were underwhelming across the board. Female voters this election were forecasted to be the main driver of the democrat agenda and overwhelmingly pro abortion candidates lost to economy first candidates. People who championed abortion being a fundamental right lost everywhere; and the ballot measures meant to make abortions fully legal also did not pass in many cases.
The movement itself was not nearly as full of energy as was advertised. States had a chance to shrug off the supreme courts decision to ovetturn it and call this round 1; but this whole thing either took a backseat or flat out just failed in popularity.

Alot of this is due to abortion being popular only in cities and very denounced in rural america. City voters were apathetic, voted on split tickets, or didnt send a very clear indication of how they actually felt about abortion even in exit polling

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

Most people dont have that level of knowledge about the supreme court. They dont monitor how old judges are and what judges are nearing retirement. Its a very politically party line topic to vote on and only the most well informed individuals tend to even understand how that works.

Trump gets support from people who think dems control the weather and all dems want is to give illegal aliens sex changes. Try telling those people they should vote democrat because gay marriage might get repealed

I keep seeing these sorts of takes and I'm just not so sure. Is the average voter actually that poorly informed? That stupid?

In a previous job I did some political-related focus groups in Canada. Many voters didn't read much above a grade 5 level. A surprising number were *unable* to understand some technical topics in boring areas like public finance.

But "if you elect me I'll pick your SC judges, and they'll decide a bunch of big issues" seems like an extremely simple message lol, I would hope most voters would know this.

[CaptainFritz28]

Honestly I think it's the sort of talk Brainbomb is making here that caused democrats to lose.

When you assume that the other side is completely daft and only votes for who they do because they're stupid illogical nincompoops... you'll find that you might just have entirely overlooked every single reason for voting they way that they do, and thus you won't actually confront their reason for voting or offer alternatives that they care about.

It's also rather unwise to assume that the very people who are feeding this country and putting in the backbreaking work to keep it running are all stupid. Turns out people don't like it when you call them garbage, especially when society's functioning relies upon their jobs.

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

BB also offered a lot of clear-eyed criticisms of the Dem's approach this election, and is probably not wrong to say a lot of dummies voted for Trump lol

The problem is it's gotta be both. Some smart informed people supported Trump for intelligible reasons, and a lot of dummies like to support a "fuck you Dems" president

[CaptainFritz28]

I should hope that I fall under the former. I certainly know it's not the latter; in fact that's one of the primary things I don't like about Trump.

But also I think it can be said that the corollary is true. There are some very smart people that voted Democrat for reasons I can understand and, if I held their same worldview, would likely find logically compelling. There are also some who voted that way because that's what they're told to do and they hate Trump.

Unfortunately, rooting out the dummies from politics is a rather universal problem with no clear solution.

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

Things may not be as dire as you see them Fritz, though I suspect I'd share your view if I were your age.

Democracy doesn't have to be a might makes right contest. There are historical parallels for the partisanship and rule bending we see today, but it is genuinely unusually bad in the 2020s. A rebuke of Trump's incessant "it's on a legit voting system if I win" rhetoric would have helped. Dems who took "Russia gate" beyond what could be asserted with evidence (alongside related infractions, Hunter-Biden laptop, etc.) are already getting the clear message this strategy doesn't work. Government and politicians really can be restrained by rules that promote fair political contests and intelligent policy debates if the population makes it clear they care about these things.

And dummies really can be disempowered under the right circumstances. The persistence of the two-party dynamic makes this difficult, but not impossible. Republican leaders should do better than Trump has at distancing themselves from legitimate bigots and those advocating for the most obviously untenable policies. Dems tried to distance themselves from blue-haired crazies way too late in the game this cycle, but they just *might* learn their lesson on this going forward. In some other democracies these things aren't considered too much to ask — they're considered the bare minimum.

You're right to critique when folks like BB over generalize about the dumbness of certain voter groups. But it's equally problematic when a Fox News watching populace comes to *love* their newfound victim complex and blow any criticism of them or their positions way out of proportion. Media seems to be making everyone certain they are hated by people who disagree with their politics, which is largely untrue for most normies out there.

[CaptainFritz28]

What I've found this election is that there is really only a very small margin of people who truly hate each other. Most people think they hate each other but only do so because that's what they have been told they must or should do. It seems, however, that most people are really rather sensible, and that, as you said, it's a matter of distancing one's party from those who make it appear as though everyone is a radical who wants the other party dead. Trouble is, those are the most popular people and the loudest.

And I especially agree about victim complexes. Trump has made a large one for himself, and many who support him apply that to themselves and use that to relate to him, even though it may not be true for them. I hate the fact that that's the case, and that, again as you mentioned, the media (Fox News, MSNBC, etc.... ugh) tend to only add fuel to the fire. And of course I could go into the victim complexes I see on the left, but I don't really need to.

I think there are ways to go about politics that can make for clear, level headed, and intelligent debate. I don't think it's really too hard to do so. What I don't get is how badly it gets screwed up.

[brainbomb]

Oh to be fair alot of people who voted Biden switched this time to Trump. I was highlighting that the BASE of trumps support lack college degrees.

[brainbomb]

Slackjawed idiots from bumfuck nowhere have value. Dont mistake my slurs