AAG/EOG - Reliable Gunboat-3

[DougJoe]

Just finished the following gunboat game (https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=1158398) that ended in a 4-way draw. I actually took quite a decent amount of notes this time (I think the game was up to about 1904 when I started). Anyway, if anybody's interested, here you go:

I haven’t played a gunboat game in a while, there’s one open for a 101 point bet, that ought to be interesting… the phases are 18/12 hours, that should be fine. Why not?

Spring 1901:
…and what power am I playing this time? Oh, look, it’s another eastern power - Turkey. I haven’t played a western power with humans on WebDip in forever - it’s been Turkey, Austria, Russia. That’s ok, though - we’ll make it work.

So what do I want to do in this game? I’m not sure I want to go heavy against Russia (Con-Bul,Ank-BLA,Smy-Arm) and the normal Con-Bul,Smy-Con,Ank-BLA doesn’t sound appealing… I think I played Con-Bul, Smy-Ank, Ank-Con in my last game as Turkey in the gunboat challenge, but the idea still appeals to me and so that’s what I’ll do.

Post Spring 1901/Autumn 1901:
England goes full on at Norway, France plays the Maginot, Germany goes to Den, Kie, and Ruh, Italy has Ven hold and goes to Apu and ION, Russia plays to Gal, Ukr, BLA, and GOB. Austria is the weird one and they go to Gal (a bounce) and Alb but move Bud to Trieste to hedge against Italy instead of playing Bud-Ser.

What’s interesting about this is that they now can’t force both Greece and Serbia. Russia’s in the Black Sea, of course, and that’s a little scary, but such is the cost of things for getting the fleet out into the Mediterranean. At this point, it looks like there’s a possibility of an A/I. Austria, though, can’t force both Greece and Bulgaria. I decide to bounce Serbia and move to AEG as then I’ll have two units available to attack Greece and Austria can’t defend it by himself in 1902.

The moves:Bul-Ser, Con-AEG, Ank-Con.

Post Autumn 1901/Winter 1901:
England convoys to Norway and moves to BAR, so he’s clearly wanting to tangle with Russia. France gets his two in Por and Spa and bounces with Germany in Belgium. Germany bounces Russia in Sweden and gets Den and Hol. Russia supports BLA into Rum and bounces Austria in Galicia. I like the move to Rum because it empties the Black Sea but he’s also not able to put any pressure from Rum on Austria. Austria bounces in Gal and Ser and gets Greece as expected. Italy convoys to Tunis and puts a support hold on Trieste.

England is +1, France is +2, Germany is +2, Russia is +1, Italy is +1, Austria is +1, Turkey is +1.

I’m going to build the fleet in Smyrna. I’m guessing Russia will build in the north (so I’m not worried about F Sev) Italy will probably build fleet Naples, Austria only has Budapest available for an army.

Spring 1902:
All the eastern builds were as expected and Russia built A Stp. Germany built two armies (I’m hoping they aren’t going east) France built F Bre, A Par (no surprise) and England built F Edi.
Ok, so this is the tricky turn - what are we going to do about Greece and the Aegean? Unless Russia does something totally unexpected, Bul S AEG-Gre will get Greece… but that leaves me open to Gre S ION-AEG (and bounces if Italy supports Gre-AEG, but I think that’s less likely, gunboat and all.) The other option is AEG S Bul-Gre which is a little riskier because Italy can tap AEG. For some reason, I really don’t think that A/I are going to be on the same page, though, so I go ahead and decide to try to put the army in Greece instead of the fleet. Con will follow up to Bul and I’ll take a chance and have Smy move to EMS instead of protecting AEG. This does leave me vulnerable to ION S Gre-AEG, but then I’m in Greece.

The moves: AEG S Bul-Gre, Con-Bul, Smy-EMS

Post Spring 1902/Autumn 1902:
Wow! Italy goes for the jugular and convoys to Albania and moves into Trieste! Austria played the most forcing moves to get into Serbia and Italy followed in right behind. Everything that I did worked. Russia moves north to protect Saint Pete and England moves to Finland to put more force on it. Germany tried to support England into Sweden but that failed since England didn’t move there. Germany also moved his armies west to deal with France and pushed France out of Burgundy (which can’t retreat to Belgium because F/G bounced there.) Otherwise, France moved to ENC, MAO, Pic, and Mar - he’s set up to get two units pointed at Liverpool if he wants them.

Greece is blown up, France retreats to Paris.

So what now? My gut feel is that Austria is now in revenge mode (I’ve attacked him but not his home centers) and will force back Trieste with Vie & Bud S Ser-Tri. I have no idea what Italy is going to do - I could use AEG and EMS to make a play for the Ionian but I think I’m going to play it safe. So it’s going to be an attack on Serbia and I’ll protect everything else. I might get two builds this year… (maybe that’s a good thing, maybe not?)

The moves: Gre S Bul-Ser, AEG S Gre, EMS S AEG

Post Autumn 1902/Winter 1902:
All my moves work just fine. Italy played mostly defense (but moved Apu-ADR so I could have gotten Ionian) and lost Trieste to Austria. Austria did as I expected and went full out on Trieste using Serbia. So I got into Serbia and will get two builds. Around the rest of the board, I thought Germany would use Burgundy to force Belgium… but instead he moved Bur-Mar and got pushed out by Par S Mar-Bur. France used MAO to block Gascony instead of moving against England, so Burgundy was destroyed… and both France and Germany each only put two on Belgium, which means neither gets in. England covered London and went for Stp which Russia defended. Russia also defended Rum. So the west is in disarray (which is great) and I get two builds. So for this turn, Turkey is +2 and Germany rebuilds 1.

What to build?

I could build units to attack Russia but I’m going to hold off on that for now. I think I need army Con to go support Serbia and fleet Smyrna to strengthen the Med. That will give me plenty of options and maybe the fleet will give Austria a good feeling that I want to ally with him. I may not be able to hold Greece or Serbia in the spring but we’ll see. Italy still has three units (Alb, Ven, ADR) on Trieste. If Austria and Italy get on the same page now there might be trouble with Russia being so vulnerable but I still think it will be difficult for them to coordinate.

Moves: Build A Con, F Smy.

Spring 1903: Germany builds F Berlin (going for Sweden, I assume). What’s there for me to do here? Con-Bul, I think, but not sure about the rest. I think I have to go after Italy now and hopefully court Austria while he’s still mad at Italy. Serbia by itself isn’t a threat to him and maybe trying to pop Ionian will help. With Austria needing all three units to defend a potential attack on Trieste I think Serbia will be okay - I could try Ser S Gre-Alb but I’d much rather have the Ionian - if I get it, Ionian can retreat to Tunis, TYS, or Nap. TYS is a 50/50 on Nap/Tun in the fall and a retreat to Nap/Tun means (assuming ADR stays put) that I get the other.

So the moves: Ser S Gre S Ser, Con-Bul, EMS S AEG-ION, Smy-AEG.

Post Spring 1903/Autumn 1903:
Well, I was correct in my thoughts on Austria as he threw a support hold on Serbia and hard defended Trieste. Italy, however, found some degree of sanity and did not continue to attack Austria but instead tried a supported move into Greece. I defended everything with no issue, of course, but I also didn’t get into ION. Germany didn’t defend well so France is in Belgium now. England didn’t attack Russia but instead took Sweden. France also moved back into MAO. Russia moved another unit north (Ukr-Mos) and now Rumania is sitting there looking pretty vulnerable. I can’t make progress against Austria and the only thing I can do to Italy is try to pop Alb (he can’t defend both Alb and ION) and even if I do get into Alb, he rebuilds it as a fleet which blocks ION.

I feel like attacking Russia would be a bad idea. He just retreats to BLA and I can’t defend Rum/Bul/Con/Ank all at once. I’m wondering if the correct idea now is to rotate a fleet into Greece to give me three fleets pointed at the Ionian? So something like, Gre-Bul, Bul-Con, Ser S AEG - Gre, EMS-ION, Smy-AEG? Italy also threw a support hold on Austria so maybe he’s now decided that he’s not going to attack? Does he mean it and is Austria on board?

Decisions.

Well, I’m gonna go for it: Gre-Bul, Bul-Con, Ser S AEG - Gre, EMS-ION, Smy-AEG.

Post Autumn 1903/Winter 1903:

Oops. I got it wrong. I think the Russian absence in the region gave Austria some confidence and he took Serbia which I had to destroy. Maybe I should have played defense here instead of being aggressive although I’m not sure that it would matter in the long run… no builds for me. England, France, and Austria each get one.

Spring 1904:

England built fleet Liverpool, France built army Mar, Austria built army Tri. Honestly, this doesn’t look great. Rumania is going to fall and there’s really nothing I can do to stop it. I can support hold it from Bulgaria but Austria can put three on it… and if I do support hold it, Greece is vulnerable. I can force the Ionian if I move out of Greece… the question is, is Austria going to use Ser to force Rum or to do something with Greece? I’m going to make the guess that he’s going to force Rumania and go for the Ionian.

Moves: Con-Bul, Bul-Gre, AEG & EMS S Gre-ION

Post Spring 1904/Autum 1904:

Well, I was wrong. Austria supported Alb-Gre and used only two units to take Rumania (which of course worked.) I did get the Ionian but Italy moved Alb-Gre and so he’s in Greece now. He retreated to TYS. Russia retreats Rum-Sev. Elsewhere around the board, Russia brought a bunch of units back south and now Stp is vulnerable to England and it looks like Germany wants an alliance with England.

The real question now this turn is which center do I want to go for? I can take a shot at Tunis, Naples, or try to force my way back into Greece. I don’t have a good read on what Italy might defend. Naples is more important so it’s obvious that he would defend it so I wouldn’t go there and try for Tunis which means I shouldn’t go there… I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you (or me). (I also think about convoy options for both, too.) In the end I decide to just try to move back to Greece and use EMS to potentially bounce out ADR-ION since TYS has got to be going one way or the other (he can’t hit me out of ION because then I’d just retreat to Nap/Tun.) I decide to risk Bulgaria and use it to tap Serbia so Ser can’t support Gre. I suspect Serbia will be used in defense of Rum somehow (either tapping Bul or just supporting Rum.)

Sucks to have to give up ION, though.

Moves: AEG S ION-Gre, EMS-ION, Bul-Ser, Con-Bul

Post Autumn 1904/Winter 1904:

So Italy covered Tunis and moved Venice down to Rome to have it near Naples. His army in Greece supported Ser-Bul, but Ser just supported Rum. So I got back into Greece and bounced ADR-ION. I don’t get a build. Italy destroys Greece instead of retreating to Alb. Russia made an unexpected move of War-Sil. France moved MAO-WMS and Mar-Spa (more on that later.) England moved out of Finland. In any case, Russia has to lose a unit, Italy gets to rebuild one, Austria gets to build one.

Spring 1905:

Italy built a fleet in Naples (makes sense, I think), Austria builds army Tri (not a fleet, thankfully) and Russia got rid of F Sev. That was kind of surprising, thought maybe it would be F GOB.

Now what to do? I honestly can’t think of anything better than to try to retake the Ionian. I see the potential for France to convoy Spa-Naf (which would be pretty ballsy) and maybe Italy will block it (because if he uses all three fleets to keep me out of ION, he can’t keep Tunis in the fall if France convoys over. So I’m gonna try for ION and see what happens…

Moves: Con S Bul S Gre, Gre & AEG S EMS-ION

Post Spring 1905/Autumn 1905:

Italy uses all three fleets to keep me out of ION and France does exactly what I suspected - convoys to Naf. Italy will lose Tunis this year and France will be across the main stalemate line. Austria forces Tri-Alb and advances on Russia. Russia’s moves puzzle me this turn. He snipes Berlin - which he can’t hold because he rotates GOB to Stp and Stp to Livonia. I was expecting Sil-War, Stp-Mos, Ukr-Sev which seemed like the better option to me to attempt to be in War/Ukr/Sev. England gets into Denmark.

It’s really just defense against Austria this turn for me. I’ll try for ION using Greece but I know I won’t get it.

Moves: Con S Bul, Bul S Gre, AEG S Gre, Gre S EMS-ION.

Post Autumn 1905/Winter 1905:

As expected, Russia got booted out of Berlin. France didn’t support the move to Tunis but instead used WMS to convoy Naf-Tun. I don’t know if that’s what he meant to do, but it worked out for him anyway because Italy moved Tun-TYS. Italy also moved to Piedmont and used Naples to support ADR-ION which he got because Austria attacked Greece. I didn’t lose anything, though. Italy will have to pull a unit. France builds one and England builds one. Germany loses one.

Italy ends up removing Naples. Germany pulls HEL. England build army Edi (going towards Russia again?) and France builds F Mar which means he’s probably going to push south more.

The E/F that’s going on is looking really strong. Austria only has 5 units but he looks good, too.

Spring 1906:

Ok, what to do now? It looks like I don’t need to worry about Italy so I think I’m going to try to help Russia out even though it’s probably futile. I’ll use Bulgaria to tap Rumania and then use Greece to support a backfill of Bul with EMS supporting AEG and AEG supporting Gre. I don’t think I want to interfere with ION and have EMS go to ION.

Moves: Bul-Rum, Gre S Con-Bul, AEG S Gre, EMS S AEG

Post Spring 1906/Autumn 1906:

Well, the tap helped. Russia didn’t lose Sev yet. Now, though, he’s got to guess between defending Sev or War. Italy focused on France (a bounce in GOL pretty much kept most of their units from moving.) England is indeed advancing on Russia. Austria threw a support hold on Greece, that’s interesting.

I think this is where (it might have even been last turn) I start thinking about getting an army into Armenia to keep Austria from coming around the corner (as it were). I can’t save Russia forever. I’m hoping that Austria’s support hold last turn wasn’t just a prelude to an attack. I’m going to take a little risk here and rotate units around - if Austria decides to attack Gre or Bul with Alb/Ser/Rum I’ll be in trouble but if my moves work my defense should be pretty good for a while (yay Turkey) - F Con can defend Bul and F AEG can defend Gre. I shouldn’t have to worry about Italy tapping AEG or moving to EMS.

Moves: Con-Ank, Gre S Bul S Gre, EMS-AEG, AEG-Con

Post Autumn 1906/Winter 1906:

My moves all work. Russia guesses correctly and keeps Austria from taking War or Sev. France leaves Tunis exposed in order to force GOL which Italy can’t and doesn’t stop. An incorrect guess by Italy, TYS S ION-Tun would have been huge for him here. France is bringing another fleet southward (yuck) and England is still advancing on Russia but doesn’t get Stp yet.

No builds this turn.

Spring 1907:

I hate to abandon Russia, but that’s what I’ve done. Not much else to do this turn except play more defense. I’ll throw a support hold on ION because France is dangerous and I want to show Italy that I’m on his side for now.

Moves: Ank-Arm, Gre S ION, Con S Bul, AEG S Gre, Bul S Gre

Post Spring 1907/Autumn 1907:

Nothing much interesting from my moves. I get into Armenia which is good because Austria gets Sev. Russia keeps Austria out of Warsaw and defends Stp. France does a nice little convoy from Tunis to Tuscany. Italy gets Tunis but will lose Rome and then will probably lose Tunis again. France is looking really strong here.

Ok, well, what to do now? Austria vacated Albania so I don’t have to worry about Greece. I think it makes sense that I need to get my fleets back out to be ready to counter the French threat. I’ll throw a couple of support holds to Austria know that I’m willing to work with him now. Again, sorry Russia, but there’s really not much I can do.

Moves: Arm S Sev, Gre S Bul S Rum, Con-AEG, AEG-EMS.

Post Autumn 1907/Winter 1907:

All my moves succeed. France does take Rome and TYS. Italy keeps Tunis. England takes Stp. Austria and England are plus one. Italy is net zero. England builds army Edi and Austria builds army Tri (still no fleets, I like that).

Sprting 1908:

Only question for this turn is “should I take a shot at ION this turn?” I decide that it’s not time yet and not sure I can say why. Otherwise, nothing else much to do.

Moves: Arm S Sev, Bul S Ser, Gre S Bul, EMS H, AEG H

Post Spring 1908/Autumn 1908:

My units don’t do much. Everywhere else on the board, though… Austria takes Venice - I’m not sure if this is a stab, help for Italy, or defense against France. France is in Tunis and Munch and Piedmont. Austria takes Warsaw. England supports Moscow and keeps pushing on Germany. Italy holds on to Naples.

Ok, I think it’s time to take ION. I don’t know if I’ll get another opportunity. Otherwise, not much to be said for my moves.

Moves: Gre & AEG S EMS-ION. Arm S Sev, Bul S Ser.

Post Autumn 1908/Winter 1908:

Ok, so I get the Ionian. Austria moves armies away from me (wonderful). England helps Russia who gets Warsaw back. Germany takes Belgium. Austria supports Italy back into Rome. France moves into Tyrolia.

Rome and the Ionian both retreat to Apulia and are destroyed! That means that Austria gets 1 build, France gets 1 build, and Italy gets 1 build. Austria builds army Vie, France army Paris, Italy army Naples (I was expecting a fleet build).

Spring 1909:

Ok, I think Austria’s armies are going to be occupied elsewhere so I think it makes sense to try a convoy to Apulia, maybe I can get Naples. I suspect this game is going to be a A/E/F/T 4 way draw.

Moves: Arm S Sev, Bul-Apu via convoy, AEG & ION Convoy Bul-Apu, Gre S ION

Post Spring 1909/Autumn 1909:

I got into Apulia. Austria’s in War and Mos (but Russia retreatsa unit to Ukr that’s interesting). England convoys another army over towards the east. France both support held ION and supported it to Naples which is kind of interesting. I don’t know if I want an alliance with France of any sort right now but ok.

I guess this turn I’ll try to take a shot at Naples. I think I need fleets up the coast as opposed to armies so even though Rome-Apu can cut support I’l try moving from ION land try to backfill ION from Greece. Not much else to do.

Moves: Apu S ION-Nap, EAG S Gre-ION, Arm H

Post Autumn 1909/Winter 1909:

Hey, what do you know, I got a build. Austria tapped Rome for me which allowed me to get into Naples (and destroyed the Italian unit). France forced Tuscany. Russia snuck into Rumania as Austria defended War/Mos. France took Belgium and England took Kiel. France, Austria, England, and Turkey are all +1. Germany is -1 since Belgium was destroyed.

I really wasn’t sure what to build this turn. I didn’t want to build an army because I didn’t want to set off Austria’s spider-sense (I honestly don’t think I could stab him with the E/F going on). I was kind of meh about another fleet, but fleet Con it is.

Spring 1910:

France builds army Mar (not a fleet, interesting). Austria builds another army in Trieste. England builds fleet London.

Ok, so now what? Rome? Do I try with the fleet in Naples or the army in Apulia? The Army feels safer (retrospect - not so sure it is) so I lean towards that even though fleet Rome would be better against France. I honestly didn’t think too terribly much about how I could get attacked here by F/I… I don’t think they’ll work together or coordinate. I’ll use Con and AEG to cover Bul and Gre (although I really don’t think Austria’s going to go for Greece but it seems prudent).

Moves: Nap S Apu-Rom, ION S Nap, Con-Bul, AEG-Gre, Arm S Sev

Spring 1910 Results/Autumn 1910:

Of course, Austria supports the other move (from Naples) and I would have gotten it had I chosen the other way. Rome survives (France tries for it as well). Russia’s booted out of Rum and can’t retreat to Bul since my fleet is there. England’s in Berlin and has a nice set of Armies there. France moved to Piedmont.

Now, do I try the same thing again or switch to what Austria did? I think I’m just going to try the same thing again. Support holds everywhere else.

Moves: Nap S Apu-Rom, ION S Nap, Bul S Gre, Gre S ION, Arm S Sev

Autumn 1910 Results/Winter 1910:

Still don’t get it, but neither does France. England gets Holland and will be +2 for this year. Russia’s eliminated. Again, sorry it didn’t work out this game, Russia. Austria is +1. England’s got a nice little set of armies up there on the coast. France and Austria are tussling in no-man’s land.

Spring 1911:

Austria builds army Vie. England builds fleet Lon and army Edi.

Again, not much else for me to do other than try for Rome again. I’ll move Arm-Syr and Bul-AEG to de-escalate the A/T border.

Moves: Nap S Apu-Rom, ION S Nap, Gre S ION.

Spring 1911 Results/Autumn 1911:

I think France got spooked by England’s builds and as such pulled away from Tuscany and Rome. I got in! Both England and France tried for Belgium and neither got it but based on England’s moves I think he’s going to get it next turn.

For the Autumn, it’s all support holds and quiet sit time in Syria.

Moves: Nap S Rom, ION S Nap, Gre S ION, AEG S ION, Syr H

Autumn 1911 Results/Winter 1911:

I keep Rome. England gets Belgium. That will eliminate both Germany and Italy - good game to both. France throws support holds on ION and Nap. Center counts: England 11, Austria 9, France 7, Turkey 7. England and Turkey are both +1.

Ok, so what to build now? Is there a chance we work to eliminate France here? If England pushes down from the north? A fleet goes against France and an army would be potential defense against Austria. Is he going to attack me now? I don’t think so, England is strong up there… I think it’s another fleet. Austria’s going be hard pressed to get another build and I think a fleet gives me good enough defense. We’ll see what England builds and if anybody votes draw in the morning.

Moves:Build F Con.

Spring 1912:

When I checked the game this morning France and Austria had both voted draw. I’ve also now voted draw, I guess we’re just waiting on England.

If England doesn’t vote draw by the end of the work day I’ll need to put moves in. I guess just advance the units in Italy? Not sure. I think I’m going to pull Rome back to Apulia and advance the fleets up.

Moves: Syr-Smy, Con-Bul (sc), AEG S Gre-ION, ION-Nap, Nap-Rom

Post Spring 1912/Autumn 1912:

I finalized with 6 hours to go and the turn ticked over. All my moves worked. England tried to move to MAO and Ruhr. Austria is now piled up on Munich. Not sure what’s going on.

What am I going to do here? I’m honestly not sure. I’m nervous about Austria getting bigger but I’m not sure it’s time to attack him. I guess for now I’m just going to stay still? There is the possibility of convoying Apu-Alb or Gre and Smy-Bul… but I’m not really sure I want to do that.

Moves: Smy H, Bul S AEG S ION S Nap S Rom, Apu S Nap, Rom S Nap

Post Autumn 1912/Winter 1912:

France continues to move away from Tunis and gets pushed back into Mar. England takes Picardy. Still not sure what’s going on there. No builds for anyone.

Spring 1913:

What to do now? I’m honestly not sure at this point other than maybe getting into TYS seems like a good idea…

Moves: Rom & ION S Nap-TYS, AEG S Bul, Smy H, Apu H

Spring 1913 Results/Autumn 1913:

I move successfully into TYS. France and England reposition fleets, France moving more northward. Austria takes a swipe at Munich. Ok, Tunis is mine if I want it. Do I want it? I’m really not sure that I do - I’m nervous about the consequences of weakening France, mostly because I’m worried about him pulling something that lets Austria get another build (and I’d worry that would be a fleet that would make my defense of Gre/Bul very difficult.) What does England want that he’s not drawing here, to eliminate France? I don’t see a way that England solos even if France is wiped out… Is he trying to get Austria or I to turn on each other? I don’t know…

…but it turns out I don’t have to decide because the game is a draw.

Final Thoughts:

It was a good game - I think that everyone played well? I don’t consider myself a gunboat expert so it’s hard to tell for sure. This is the quickest turn cycle gunboat game I’ve played. At times the 18/14 hour turns were a little fast for me sometimes (but most of the time it was ok.) I’m not quite sure I really knew what was going on around the board, wouldn’t mind hearing others thoughts. Taking the chance in A03 on rotating my fleets/armies to try to break into ION eventually really hurt. I was surprised that A/I got their act together so fast (were the Italian Spring 1902 moves a stab or was that meant to be something else?). Russia was in a tough spot having to focus so much on the north and Austria took advantage.

I was surprised at the end to see how experienced some of the players were, France is the #44 ghost ranked gunboat player and Germany was fairly highly rated as well.

Again, good game everyone!

[Mark Murray]

That is a great summary. Playing as Austria is tough at the start. If you can survive for a few moves, Austria can be strong. I actually flubbed my first move. I meant to move Vie to Tri with Bud covering Gal. But I did the opposite, which meant that I was out of position to try for Ser in the fall because Bud moved to Tri.

I guess at some point Italy could not resist grabbing Trieste. I wasn't too upset, but I had to get my home centers back. I had to sacrifice Serbia to get Tri back. It was fortunate that Russia had a two-front war, and that Italy decided quickly to abandon his attack on me. I was able to maintain an organized force and defense. Russia was hit hard in the north. That gave me some breathing room and I eventually made some gains.

When France came into the Med, that put Italy at a disadvantage, and I became concerned about the E/F alliance with a possible G thrown in for good measure. I took advantage of Italy's problems by taking Ven and hoping that Turkey would come around to a nice A/T alliance. The A/T requires Austria to build a lot of armies and Turkey to build a lot of fleets. Turkey came through.

I gave Italy one additional support in Rome to prevent France from taking it. After that I kept trying to guess how Turkey would get in Rome.

I would have preferred a 3-way draw but was OK with the 4-way. When England did not vote for the Draw, I thought England might be looking for us to take out France. I decided to keep my Draw vote up but still go after Munich hoping that England would support me in. He didn't. I saw France moving into the North Atlantic and I thought maybe France would help me into Berlin against England. I had those moves readied when England settled for the Draw, so those moves never got played.

My thoughts in a nutshell. Nerves were wracked a couple of times. I was glad that Turkey did not grab my vacant dots.

[DougJoe]

I took advantage of Italy's problems by taking Ven and hoping that Turkey would come around to a nice A/T alliance. The A/T requires Austria to build a lot of armies and Turkey to build a lot of fleets. Turkey came through.

I would have preferred a 3-way draw but was OK with the 4-way. When England did not vote for the Draw, I thought England might be looking for us to take out France. I decided to keep my Draw vote up but still go after Munich hoping that England would support me in. He didn't. I saw France moving into the North Atlantic and I thought maybe France would help me into Berlin against England. I had those moves readied when England settled for the Draw, so those moves never got played.

My thoughts in a nutshell. Nerves were wracked a couple of times. I was glad that Turkey did not grab my vacant dots.

I was still super nervous about getting attacked one we'd settled into our alliance (which kind of had to happen based on the rest of the board).

I was worried that if I went after France at the end that he might let you into Mun or Mar which might have given you what you needed (I think a single Fleet build) to break my potential defense and go for the solo (since you'd be across the stalemate line). A 3-way draw would have been better for sure... if I had taken Tunis, I would have had a very tough decision about what to build at that point and I would have been very tempted the next year to go after Serbia... but I was also worried about pulling you away from the English armies. I told someone familiar with Diplomacy earlier today that if I had that exact same choice in a bot game, I'd definitely have sniped Tunis, built and army, and gone after Austria.

[Aristocrat]

Appreciate the AAR, wish more folks would do this (in the game or forum - too many completely silent). I took a peek at the maps and here were my off the cuff remarks from the first few turns, acknowledging I’m not as good as every player in the game. Hope it’s taken as good faith discussion, not criticism:

Germany I think should have let Russia into Sweden in F1901; England moving to Edi instead of Yor in is a signal that England wants an EF and GR can pretty well stalemate EF forever in gunboat, at least until someone intervenes from the south. Some would say no open to Channel = no bounce in Sweden (this is very well internalized in some other dip communities), but at the very least England opening to Edi is a strong anti-German signal I wouldn’t ignore, unless maybe France opened to channel itself.

Germany also I think made a tactical mistake going for Mar in 1902 instead of the guaranteed build in Belgium, but sometimes you have to gamble.

That said, once Germany did bounce Sweden, I think Russia made a mistake building A STP. The north is pretty lost at that point (England in Barents and Sweden bounced), retreating a fleet to S STP would cause a good England to back off (since F S STP can’t threaten Norway), and if you just want to hold STP then A Mos SH F STP does just as a good a job,

Russia also made a mistake taking Rum with a fleet. Might as well maintain the option to attack Turkey while also being able to attack Austria. F Rum removes both options. Russia could have potentially run a deadly IR (Wintergreen) but instead locked itself into a losing battle over a mostly worthless province (they ended up dedicating 3 units to defend STP, even though the geography greatly favors northern powers in Scandinavia/STP).

Once Russia built A STP, IMO Italy shouldn’t have attacked Austria. Italy attacking Austria is generally a bad decision in press and gunboat, and most Austrias will react as this one did. That said, Italy wasn’t left with many choices since it didn’t seem like either Austria or Russia were looking to help vs Turkey. So maybe a suicide run hoping the north resolves quickly was the best bet; this is a closer call than Russia focusing north.

Just a few thoughts from the first few turns. No real input on England and France, they played very well. Turkey (OP) I would have bounced BS but Russia didn’t bother to capitalize.

[DougJoe]

Appreciate the AAR, wish more folks would do this (in the game or forum - too many completely silent). I took a peek at the maps and here were my off the cuff remarks from the first few turns, acknowledging I’m not as good as every player in the game. Hope it’s taken as good faith discussion, not criticism:

Germany I think should have let Russia into Sweden in F1901; England moving to Edi instead of Yor in is a signal that England wants an EF and GR can pretty well stalemate EF forever in gunboat, at least until someone intervenes from the south. Some would say no open to Channel = no bounce in Sweden (this is very well internalized in some other dip communities), but at the very least England opening to Edi is a strong anti-German signal I wouldn’t ignore, unless maybe France opened to channel itself.

Germany also I think made a tactical mistake going for Mar in 1902 instead of the guaranteed build in Belgium, but sometimes you have to gamble.

That said, once Germany did bounce Sweden, I think Russia made a mistake building A STP. The north is pretty lost at that point (England in Barents and Sweden bounced), retreating a fleet to S STP would cause a good England to back off (since F S STP can’t threaten Norway), and if you just want to hold STP then A Mos SH F STP does just as a good a job,

Russia also made a mistake taking Rum with a fleet. Might as well maintain the option to attack Turkey while also being able to attack Austria. F Rum removes both options. Russia could have potentially run a deadly IR (Wintergreen) but instead locked itself into a losing battle over a mostly worthless province (they ended up dedicating 3 units to defend STP, even though the geography greatly favors northern powers in Scandinavia/STP).

Once Russia built A STP, IMO Italy shouldn’t have attacked Austria. Italy attacking Austria is generally a bad decision in press and gunboat, and most Austrias will react as this one did. That said, Italy wasn’t left with many choices since it didn’t seem like either Austria or Russia were looking to help vs Turkey. So maybe a suicide run hoping the north resolves quickly was the best bet; this is a closer call than Russia focusing north.

Just a few thoughts from the first few turns. No real input on England and France, they played very well. Turkey (OP) I would have bounced BS but Russia didn’t bother to capitalize.

Interesting observations! Thanks for the feedback.

Yeah, it's always a tough decision that first turn. Bouncing BLA is safer for sure - but I made a guess that Russia would be looking for a friend (given what I've read about Russia's general struggles in gunboat) and Ank-Con makes that very apparent right off the bat. I generally don't like having that fleet stuck in Ank if an A/I shows up (which, at the very beginning of this game, it looked like that might be the case).

The fleet in Rumania was a double-edged sword. I liked that it couldn't attack me but disliked that it couldn't attack Austria.

[DakkaDok]

I guess at some point Italy could not resist grabbing Trieste. I wasn't too upset, but I had to get my home centers back. I had to sacrifice Serbia to get Tri back. It was fortunate that Russia had a two-front war, and that Italy decided quickly to abandon his attack on me.

Hey, Italy here. This attack on you is definitely my biggest regret of the game. The reasoning at the time was this: Turkey was already in AEG with a second fleet built in SMY, making a normal Lepanto impossible. Moving against France would have taken several years and given them plenty of time. I should have guessed you would support my fleet move from GRE, that might have led to a very different game for me. As it stood, the attack was obviously doomed, which is why I gave up on it so quickly.

Then later, when Turkey had a third fleet and France started coming into the Med, it was pretty much over for me. I don't think I could have done much better from that point, although giving up TUN to an unsupported convoy from NAF still hurts.

[DougJoe]

I guess at some point Italy could not resist grabbing Trieste. I wasn't too upset, but I had to get my home centers back. I had to sacrifice Serbia to get Tri back. It was fortunate that Russia had a two-front war, and that Italy decided quickly to abandon his attack on me.

Hey, Italy here. This attack on you is definitely my biggest regret of the game. The reasoning at the time was this: Turkey was already in AEG with a second fleet built in SMY, making a normal Lepanto impossible. Moving against France would have taken several years and given them plenty of time. I should have guessed you would support my fleet move from GRE, that might have led to a very different game for me. As it stood, the attack was obviously doomed, which is why I gave up on it so quickly.

Then later, when Turkey had a third fleet and France started coming into the Med, it was pretty much over for me. I don't think I could have done much better from that point, although giving up TUN to an unsupported convoy from NAF still hurts.

I think that if you and Austria could have worked out a borrow of Tri so you could build another fleet it could have been interesting. I really want to run a game long I/T someday, but alas it was not this game.

The funny thing is that the convoy order of WMS failed because the move to Tunis wasn't ordered as a convoy. I wondered if that was a misorder or intentional.

[DakkaDok]

The funny thing is that the convoy order of WMS failed because the move to Tunis wasn't ordered as a convoy. I wondered if that was a misorder or intentional.

I have to imagine it was a misorder, and was meant to be a support. Anything else makes no sense there, which is also why I just moved out. Still feels bad, knowing I could have kept Tunis another year, even if I don't think it would have changed the final result of the game for me.

[DougJoe]

The funny thing is that the convoy order of WMS failed because the move to Tunis wasn't ordered as a convoy. I wondered if that was a misorder or intentional.

I have to imagine it was a misorder, and was meant to be a support. Anything else makes no sense there, which is also why I just moved out. Still feels bad, knowing I could have kept Tunis another year, even if I don't think it would have changed the final result of the game for me.

If you had built a fleet in Naples near the end (which I think I wrote was that what I was expecting) instead of an army I might have done some things differently - E/F was strong then and I was more worried about France (being across the stalemate line) than you. It's hard to say.

[Mark Murray]

Hey DougJoe, I finally noticed the cat picture. Years ago, playing postal Dip, I would set up the board with all the pieces so that I could plan my next set of moves and decide what mailings to send to the other players. My cat decided it would be a good time for him to play a little Dip and he would swat around the wooden blocks and "make decisions" for me. -- Mark (Austria)

[DougJoe]

Hey DougJoe, I finally noticed the cat picture. Years ago, playing postal Dip, I would set up the board with all the pieces so that I could plan my next set of moves and decide what mailings to send to the other players. My cat decided it would be a good time for him to play a little Dip and he would swat around the wooden blocks and "make decisions" for me. -- Mark (Austria)

LOL! I've oft wondered what postal play must have been like. Who doesn't love getting non-junk/non-bill mail?

My profile pic is one of our cats, Minerva (after the character Minerva McGonagall from the Harry Potter universe, RIP Dame Maggie Smith). One summer we had two different litters of kittens born to cats in our barn - she was in the second litter and her mom moved her before we could catch her. (We caught and sold the others.) We were out of town for a few days but when we got back one night around 10 PM my wife heard some noises in the cornfield across the street. We checked it out with flashlights and found (and caught) the kitten who ended up being the one of the nine kittens from that summer we decided to keep. Kitten of the Corn, we call her. Her grandmother (Little Bit) still lives in our barn (has has been fixed, no more kittens for her). Her mom (Mini Bit) died some time ago.