Mafia XL - A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum

[Durga]

There isn't really much point in debating Jamie's antics since he isn't here to answer for them, but I for one thought that leaving the game over a GM decision was either a bluff gone bad or genuinely just being pissed off, which is at worst NAI for him.

I'll ##VOTE Ike for now so that we have three trains, albeit one looks like it's beginning to run away.

Your subtly sheeped me this entire game

[Durga]

You've*

[bozotheclown]

Since the box ended up with Squigs, I think it is almost certain that worcej is town as well. If the box had started with scum, I don’t think they would pass it to a town member so early. Worcej also made his box claims at the ideal times, not revealing DrCJG as the second box holder until he had already passed it on, and making sure DrCJG had at least today to use his item in case he is town.

However, I do see reasons why a scum DrCJG would pass the box to a town member, knowing that a town member passed him the box. The primary reason is that if a scum DrCJG got lynched, it would put his box recipient under suspicion. So, I think DrCJG passing the box to Squigs is NAI.

[bo_sox48]

There isn't really much point in debating Jamie's antics since he isn't here to answer for them, but I for one thought that leaving the game over a GM decision was either a bluff gone bad or genuinely just being pissed off, which is at worst NAI for him.

I'll ##VOTE Ike for now so that we have three trains, albeit one looks like it's beginning to run away.

Your subtly sheeped me this entire game

You've actually stolen lines right out of my mouth on a couple of occasions, but no, I went after Ike yesterday and he's been in my scumreads for quite some time.

[bozotheclown]

I think yavuzovic is our best bet to lynch scum today.

##VOTE yavuzovic

[bo_sox48]

Uh, two days ago, not yesterday I guess.

[bozotheclown]

DrCJG, did you consider the NK protection provided by the box when you delivered it N2?

[Squigs44]

Since the box ended up with Squigs, I think it is almost certain that worcej is town as well. If the box had started with scum, I don’t think they would pass it to a town member so early. Worcej also made his box claims at the ideal times, not revealing DrCJG as the second box holder until he had already passed it on, and making sure DrCJG had at least today to use his item in case he is town.

However, I do see reasons why a scum DrCJG would pass the box to a town member, knowing that a town member passed him the box. The primary reason is that if a scum DrCJG got lynched, it would put his box recipient under suspicion. So, I think DrCJG passing the box to Squigs is NAI.

So you are townreading worcej because worcej passed the box to a town member?

[bozotheclown]

Since the box ended up with Squigs, I think it is almost certain that worcej is town as well. If the box had started with scum, I don’t think they would pass it to a town member so early. Worcej also made his box claims at the ideal times, not revealing DrCJG as the second box holder until he had already passed it on, and making sure DrCJG had at least today to use his item in case he is town.

However, I do see reasons why a scum DrCJG would pass the box to a town member, knowing that a town member passed him the box. The primary reason is that if a scum DrCJG got lynched, it would put his box recipient under suspicion. So, I think DrCJG passing the box to Squigs is NAI.

So you are townreading worcej because worcej passed the box to a town member?

No, I think a scum worcej would have passed it to another scum, who would have then passed it to another scum. Since you are town, the box likely started with a town worcej.

Put another way, here are the possibilities, with the probability based on the fact that you are town:
scum worcej, scum DrCJG: unlikely, since DrCJG would likely pass box to scum
scum worcej, town DrCJG: unlikely that scum worcej would pass box to town
town worcej, scum DrCJG: possible, scum DrCJG might pass box back to town so as to not eventually implicate box recipient
town worcej, town DrCJG: obviously possible, town worcej would try to pass the box to town, and town DrCJG would try to pass the box to town

Since DrCJG passed the box to a confirmed town, I think the two possibilities with worcej as scum are both unlikely, this is why I am town reading worcej.

[Squigs44]

Has anyone asked worcej and drcjg why they passed the box to the person they passed it to?

Worcej - you never really stated that you townread cjg, and after passing, you sounded like you regretted it. Why pass it to cjg in the first place?

DrCJG - You had Balki listed above me in your townreads, but passed it to me instead of Balki. Why? Also, can you remind me why you were townreading me?

[Squigs44]

Since the box ended up with Squigs, I think it is almost certain that worcej is town as well. If the box had started with scum, I don’t think they would pass it to a town member so early. Worcej also made his box claims at the ideal times, not revealing DrCJG as the second box holder until he had already passed it on, and making sure DrCJG had at least today to use his item in case he is town.

However, I do see reasons why a scum DrCJG would pass the box to a town member, knowing that a town member passed him the box. The primary reason is that if a scum DrCJG got lynched, it would put his box recipient under suspicion. So, I think DrCJG passing the box to Squigs is NAI.

So you are townreading worcej because worcej passed the box to a town member?

No, I think a scum worcej would have passed it to another scum, who would have then passed it to another scum. Since you are town, the box likely started with a town worcej.

Put another way, here are the possibilities, with the probability based on the fact that you are town:
scum worcej, scum DrCJG: unlikely, since DrCJG would likely pass box to scum
scum worcej, town DrCJG: unlikely that scum worcej would pass box to town
town worcej, scum DrCJG: possible, scum DrCJG might pass box back to town so as to not eventually implicate box recipient
town worcej, town DrCJG: obviously possible, town worcej would try to pass the box to town, and town DrCJG would try to pass the box to town

Since DrCJG passed the box to a confirmed town, I think the two possibilities with worcej as scum are both unlikely, this is why I am town reading worcej.

How is scum worcej town cjg less likely than town worcej scum cjg?
Basically, why would scum worcej not pass to town, but scum cjg would pass to town? What is the difference here?

[Squigs44]

@Damo - Do you still insist of having no scumreads? Because you used the term scumsea, which implies that you think the people in said sea are likely scum. I'm just confused why you insist on saying you have no scumreads when you also call people scummy and vote for them.
I think he saw how much he was getting townread for having no scumreads and has continued that vernacular.

[Squigs44]

@ND - You haven't posted as much since Xorxes died. Basically you came in and saw Xorxes list. You agreed the Ezio was scum and end voted him. As far as the rest of the list goes, you have ignored it. You definitely haven't addressed the fact that you are third on the list. Also, you townread Yav after the Xorxes flip, even with Yav as the second on the list. That changed after the #millerclaim, but you are still voting for flash.

So basically I am looking at the fact that you:
1) Confidently voted Ezio based on the Xorxes list
2) Threw away the rest of the list

Why did your PoV regarding Ezio change after the Xorxes flip but not your PoV about Yav, you, or DrCJG? Do you think Xorxes reads were not worth pursuing?

[bozotheclown]

So you are townreading worcej because worcej passed the box to a town member?

No, I think a scum worcej would have passed it to another scum, who would have then passed it to another scum. Since you are town, the box likely started with a town worcej.

Put another way, here are the possibilities, with the probability based on the fact that you are town:
scum worcej, scum DrCJG: unlikely, since DrCJG would likely pass box to scum
scum worcej, town DrCJG: unlikely that scum worcej would pass box to town
town worcej, scum DrCJG: possible, scum DrCJG might pass box back to town so as to not eventually implicate box recipient
town worcej, town DrCJG: obviously possible, town worcej would try to pass the box to town, and town DrCJG would try to pass the box to town

Since DrCJG passed the box to a confirmed town, I think the two possibilities with worcej as scum are both unlikely, this is why I am town reading worcej.

How is scum worcej town cjg less likely than town worcej scum cjg?
Basically, why would scum worcej not pass to town, but scum cjg would pass to town? What is the difference here?

The difference is that a scum worcej would not have to worry about being reported as having the box, but a scum DrCJG, knowing he was given the box by a town member, would know there was a good chance that the town member would eventually report that he was passed the box.

[Squigs44]

No, I think a scum worcej would have passed it to another scum, who would have then passed it to another scum. Since you are town, the box likely started with a town worcej.

Put another way, here are the possibilities, with the probability based on the fact that you are town:
scum worcej, scum DrCJG: unlikely, since DrCJG would likely pass box to scum
scum worcej, town DrCJG: unlikely that scum worcej would pass box to town
town worcej, scum DrCJG: possible, scum DrCJG might pass box back to town so as to not eventually implicate box recipient
town worcej, town DrCJG: obviously possible, town worcej would try to pass the box to town, and town DrCJG would try to pass the box to town

Since DrCJG passed the box to a confirmed town, I think the two possibilities with worcej as scum are both unlikely, this is why I am town reading worcej.

How is scum worcej town cjg less likely than town worcej scum cjg?
Basically, why would scum worcej not pass to town, but scum cjg would pass to town? What is the difference here?

The difference is that a scum worcej would not have to worry about being reported as having the box, but a scum DrCJG, knowing he was given the box by a town member, would know there was a good chance that the town member would eventually report that he was passed the box.

Okay, I think I see your point. The whole list thing weakens it a bit though, since if town got the box at any point, they could use list and expose like the whole scumteam if they didn't reveal. This gives the scum team an incentive to pass to town. Maybe a townie that is strongly townreading a scummate?

[Squigs44]

@ghug - you have been instrumental in both the D1 mislynch and the D2 mislynch. Yet you are still being mostly townread. Why?

[Squigs44]

Everyone is townreading me. So this is how it feels. How wonderful.

So I kinda forgot that Vecna died. Went and looked at Vecna's posts, and he didn't do much scumhunting yesterday. I think this quote sums up why he was the NK. Universally townread. Reputation for a good player. Didn't have many connections to players, so his death isn't all that informative.

[Squigs44]

@rdrivera - I kinda forgot you were playing this game. Have you done anything noteworthy this game? Who do you think is the deep threat for the scum team (I'm asking you since you have been the deep threat for scum in many of the games I have played in)?

[bozotheclown]

How is scum worcej town cjg less likely than town worcej scum cjg?
Basically, why would scum worcej not pass to town, but scum cjg would pass to town? What is the difference here?

The difference is that a scum worcej would not have to worry about being reported as having the box, but a scum DrCJG, knowing he was given the box by a town member, would know there was a good chance that the town member would eventually report that he was passed the box.

Okay, I think I see your point. The whole list thing weakens it a bit though, since if town got the box at any point, they could use list and expose like the whole scumteam if they didn't reveal. This gives the scum team an incentive to pass to town. Maybe a townie that is strongly townreading a scummate?

However, since only 1 or 2 lists are available, the scum team could get around this problem by using up the lists. I think a scum worcej would have performed a list and passed the box to scum, and that scum would have performed a list and passed the box to scum, either using the second and final list or receiving an item. That would have allowed the scum team to keep the box history permanently hidden from town.

[yavuzovic]

I will make a reread on certain players when I go to home but for now ##vote damo
My read in him may change after this, or may stay on him.