WebMafia Olympics - Game #3 - Raygun's Revenge [GAME THREAD]

[Kakarroto]

I don't feel the urgency. Neither ghug nor Flum seem to try to get to the ground of things, as if it's not four hours before we have a possible end to the whole game. Jamie isn't urgent too, but he at least seems to be very sure he's voting correctly. RD declared busy, and while I think subbing earlier would've been better than, I can understand that.

So I think, we should fully decide who to vote, Jamie, RD. You said that you think ghug didn't shoot, Jamie, but I still think the non-shooter is Flum. Ghug could just try to go out with a "big balls" attitude, trying to attract the vote if necessary. No, if anything, he wants us to see it, either by making us think he is confident town, or mafia who has a bullet. Flum on the other hand is trying to go with the flow, to hide, to stay in the back. Trying to not catch attention.

So I'm pretty confident he is the one with the last bullet, and we should vote him out. Although it might be that RD isn't here in time and we are stuck with ghug. If RD comes back and changes to Flum, would you change your vote to him too, jamie?

[ghug]

I feel like one of the people who pushed a sudden speedhammer on Sweet was probably scum, playing the long game and hoping to gain a modicum of cred for "preventing a shot", despite also forcing through a miskill on a townie.

It wasn't Bunny.

Kak required a lot of pressure to join in.

Is it Ghug?

Is it Flum?

anyway, back to the original task, I was looking for signs in which camp jamie fell, the "endvote to prevent shot"-fans or the "late shot"-enjoyers ... and he seems to be pretty down in the former.

I think RD came around to it too, but only later?

He's arguing the endvote was bad here, so I don't see how you'd reach that conclusion.

[ghug]

you think maf-flum could not fake it?

If Flum were mafia, he would have shot yesterday once he realized that shooting yesterday lost us a miskill, and the game would be over now. This is the same reason I was townreading Bunny all day yesterday, as I believed that he understood the same.

My voting pool is the people who didn't realize this, since mafia didn't shoot yesterday.

consider this: maf-flum seeing what you are doing, seeing you targeting a towny, thinking "ah, I could use the cred of doing something towny" and joins you.

As you know, mafia not always does the supposed perfect mech thing. Look at me not endvoting in that game in the final three for example (still sorry about that ). Maf-flum could've just disregarded to shoot there if there's still a misvote coming. And getting town cred out of it.

Why would he need town credit when he could just win?

[ghug]

My current "what happened?" guess is that Ghug was not the shooter; but he hoped his stalling of his hammer vote on Sweet, at a time when it was probable that Worcej wasn't online, would buy his team-mate time to see what was happening and fire a shot.

That didn't happen, and Ghug's team-mate fired *after* the deadline, but Ghug was fully committed by then, hence his Big Balls attitude today.

I'm happy with my vote.

Why wouldn't I just shoot myself, though?

[ghug]

I don't feel the urgency. Neither ghug nor Flum seem to try to get to the ground of things, as if it's not four hours before we have a possible end to the whole game. Jamie isn't urgent too, but he at least seems to be very sure he's voting correctly. RD declared busy, and while I think subbing earlier would've been better than, I can understand that.

So I think, we should fully decide who to vote, Jamie, RD. You said that you think ghug didn't shoot, Jamie, but I still think the non-shooter is Flum. Ghug could just try to go out with a "big balls" attitude, trying to attract the vote if necessary. No, if anything, he wants us to see it, either by making us think he is confident town, or mafia who has a bullet. Flum on the other hand is trying to go with the flow, to hide, to stay in the back. Trying to not catch attention.

So I'm pretty confident he is the one with the last bullet, and we should vote him out. Although it might be that RD isn't here in time and we are stuck with ghug. If RD comes back and changes to Flum, would you change your vote to him too, jamie?

The day ends tomorrow, not today. And I'm frankly pretty offended that you think I'm showing less urge to solve than Jamie or Rd.

[ghug]

Kak, the underlying sense I'm getting is that you've already decided that Jamie and Rd are town and you're trying to justify logic on me and Flum to support that when you haven't explained your townreads. Could you please explain why?

Cynically, I'm skeptical because your solve is in direct opposition to mine, and it represents a pivot from an earlier rd vote that makes a lot of sense for you to make as mafia once Rd and Jamie have stated their desire to vote for me.

[Kakarroto]

seems like I made a mistake, I thought the day ends today. But the bot say it's over a day left so I guess that's that.

Ah well, I'm doing some other stuff then and let you all catch up and hunt. You should still change and vote for Flum

[Fluminator]

ok, for flum, these were two posts I had prepared, but ghug told me to shut my mouth before:

Let's think this through:

5-2
no-kill
5-2
forced vote + forced shot
a) 3-2
aa) 2-2 through maf-shot => No-Kill/Tie Voting Modification comes into effect
aaa) both mafia don't vote together and maybe busses -> scruffy but winnable
aab) both mafia vote together and tie occurs -> oldest vote placed on a player decides (town just needs to be faster than mafia)

ab) 2-2 through vote => mafia wins due to having a shot left

b) 4-1 (as in, we actually get the vote right) -> surviving maf probably had shot unused, so lets think with that
ba) 3-1 maf holds shot
baa) 2-1 -> a very dangerous situation, if maf is first to vote, he can just shoot the other town and wins with the tiebreaker. If mafia is second to vote, he can just shoot the quicker one and has the tiebreaker (although doesn't need to shoot if the first one votes the second town). And if maf is the slowest, and both town don't vote him, he can just shoot one (the one that votes him) and vote the other town, and get the 'oldest vote' tie breaker back. So we win here ONLY if both surviving town players are faster and vote correctly the mafia.

bb) 3-1 but maf shoots
bba) 2-1 with the shot used -> if town finds each other, town victory. If maf successfully blends in, well played. If there is a tie, the fastest one decides the fate. In this case, we have a slight advantage, I think; sure, maf can just vote any of the two and don't think about it, but both town have a 50/50 if they are unsure, and we have double of the town players compared to mafia, so chances are that town is faster. Just hope that our surviving member gets it right there.

bc) after a successful vote to a 4-1, we tie again to force the last shot out
bca) 3-0 we got it right. Yay!
bcb) 2-1 -> see "bba)"

If we don't force mafia to shoot, they will either hold the shot even longer (if we are wrong) OR shot in the last minute if they are the vote target.

I think we HAVE to no-kill today, and after the forced vote&shot day, HAVE to force a no-kill vote again to make the mafia toothless and set the stage for our surviving town members as good as we can.


also, thinking about endvotes in case some people "lose interest because nothing is happening": I think we can't hammer the forced day to make mafia 'miss the shot' and get punished for not complying to the GM ruling, but lets ask worcej.

@@askGM In case we have a no-kill vote succeeding, forcing town and mafia to use their kill-ability/vote the next day, what happens if that day was hammered and mafia doesn't shoot? What if town hammers that day with "no-kill" and mafia doesn't shoot? What happens if town hammers with "no-kill" but mafia shoots? What if town hammers with a mafia as target and mafia doesn't shoot? What if town hammers with town as a target and mafia doesn't shoot?


My best guess here is that the no-kill modification rules come into play even with shots available, so probably not a good idea for town to do it (on top of openly and actively going against the GM ruling - just to clarify, I don't ask anyone to go against worcej's guiding, I just want to know what would happen, if it happens). But mafia can very easily draw the shot out very long, whereas town has to openly cooperate and mafia has plenty of time to lay back and choose.

So, maybe a time limit for the forced mafia shot after a no-kill+no-shot day would be in place? But I don't know for when to put that deadline, or if that even would be fair/rule and settings conform here. But that's a thing for worcej to figure out

=========

Trying to reset-thoughts

5-2 - mafia has 2 shots still
vote out town, no shot
4-2
vote out town, no shot
3-2
vote out town, no shot
2-2
vote out town or shoot one of the two bullets -> dominating maf win

5-2
vote out town, no shot
4-2
vote out town, shot
2-2
maf wins by just shooting one town

5-2
vote out town, no shot
4-2
vote out mafia, shot
3-1
vote out mafia, shot
2-0
town win

5-2
vote out town, no shot
4-2
vote out mafia, shot
3-1
vote out town, no shot
2-1
maf can shoot and win by No-Tie rules. Town has chances to win, but very low

5-2
vote out mafia, shot
4-1
vote out town, no shot
3-1
vote out town, no shot
2-1
see above

5-2
accidentally tie, shot (or shot forcing a tie)
4-2
likely overwhelming vote out mafia that shot last day (with bussing), no shot
4-1
vote out town that was fooled, no shot
3-1
town implodes heavily, votes another town, no shot
2-1
see above

5-2
accidentally tie, shot (or shot forcing a tie)
4-2
likely overwhelming vote out mafia that shot last day (with bussing), no shot
4-1
trying to reduce PoE, vote out town, no shot
3-1
do or die, two town voting maf, one town flails hard, maf tries to vote with flailing town, at the last second shoots one town voting for maf but vote ties
2-1
flailing town realizing what happened, votes out maf, town win

5-2
accidentally tie, shot (or shot forcing a tie)
4-2
likely overwhelming vote out mafia that shot last day (with bussing), no shot
4-1
trying to reduce PoE, vote out town, no shot
3-1
do or die, two town voting maf, one town flails hard, maf tries to tie with flailing town -> no kill due to tie
3-1
forced vote&forced shot, long tie again, maf waits until the last second, shoots a town voting the maf that's not the vote target, town loses votepower
1-1
now it just counts who votes faster, 50/50. Well, maybe in favour of mafia still, since they would know exactly what happened. So I guess 60/40, if I had to put it in numbers.

========

the earlier we would've gotten rid of the shots for mafia, the better. The kill power just increases by every day. If I had realized that we could trade a forced vote with a forced shot, as worcej said when I asked him, I would've pushed for a no-kill since D1. But I only asked about it and worcej answered it on ... D3 I think? Yeah, should've been D3.

One of the reasons I took a break last night was because I had this post waiting for me. I don't know if this is an intentional mafia strategy to drown the thread with stuff that doesn't make sense or matter.
I don't care anymore. I have no regrets about the Sweet kill.

You are also so clearly overthinking things maybe you thought bunny was bluffing you to see if a shot would happen in that moment. I do also remember the time you didn't take the win in f3 lylo as scum because things didn't fully register.

It's also strange Rdr thinks the sweet kill was bad and shading it constantly while giving Kak a townread from it. I really do believe Rdr understands the benefit of what happened there and his stubborness of it being bad is disingenuine.

[Fluminator]

The game is still going, so do you think I failed?

No. Even if scum have killed yesterday the game will still be going as 2 x 2 without a shot isn't a Mafia win (I think).
Só, I think you succeded in miskilling a town and entering KILO with an obvious miskill to push (me).

After Kak post I re-read the rules and I think Mafia just lost a sure win yesterday. Entering today with a 3-2 would be almost auto unless two town vote before scum can vote.

So, maybe I am wrong on you.

##vote Ghug

Now that you have a better understanding of the rules, do you still think hammering sweet was bad.
What would have been your ideal day yesterday. Do you think it would have been better for town to wait and essentially do a normal daykill?

[Fluminator]

you think maf-flum could not fake it?

If Flum were mafia, he would have shot yesterday once he realized that shooting yesterday lost us a miskill, and the game would be over now. This is the same reason I was townreading Bunny all day yesterday, as I believed that he understood the same.

My voting pool is the people who didn't realize this, since mafia didn't shoot yesterday.

but if we got an early shot from mafia, it would've been better. Don't you realize how dangerous the late shots are, or are you just playing dumb at this point?

If sweet was scum, he would have been forced to shoot early. Why do you think people were endvoting.

[Jamiet99uk]

I don't feel the urgency. Neither ghug nor Flum seem to try to get to the ground of things, as if it's not four hours before we have a possible end to the whole game. Jamie isn't urgent too, but he at least seems to be very sure he's voting correctly. RD declared busy, and while I think subbing earlier would've been better than, I can understand that.

So I think, we should fully decide who to vote, Jamie, RD. You said that you think ghug didn't shoot, Jamie, but I still think the non-shooter is Flum. Ghug could just try to go out with a "big balls" attitude, trying to attract the vote if necessary. No, if anything, he wants us to see it, either by making us think he is confident town, or mafia who has a bullet. Flum on the other hand is trying to go with the flow, to hide, to stay in the back. Trying to not catch attention.

So I'm pretty confident he is the one with the last bullet, and we should vote him out. Although it might be that RD isn't here in time and we are stuck with ghug. If RD comes back and changes to Flum, would you change your vote to him too, jamie?

Four hours?

EOD is tomorrow, not today.

[Jamiet99uk]

My current "what happened?" guess is that Ghug was not the shooter; but he hoped his stalling of his hammer vote on Sweet, at a time when it was probable that Worcej wasn't online, would buy his team-mate time to see what was happening and fire a shot.

That didn't happen, and Ghug's team-mate fired *after* the deadline, but Ghug was fully committed by then, hence his Big Balls attitude today.

I'm happy with my vote.

Why wouldn't I just shoot myself, though?

Surely shooting yourself is against your wincon.

[Fluminator]

only a little? I was pretty surprised. And yeah, RD would've probably be the prime target for a vote today. But he was also under suspicion from now dead townies. As are you.

I mean, there is a world where I see you and RD being town with me and a jamie-flum team. But this seems so unlikely, with you choosing and pushing the target yesterday.

Why didn't you try to endvote RD? What was your thought that sweet has to be the definite endvote? I still remember that he heavily suspected you, so it would be quite nice for maf-ghug to remove that voice. Plus bunny who was also beginning to suspect you.

I mean, sweet also was 100% mafpartner with ImpWill, from his own words, but yeah.

I'm also taken aback that you try to point to some mech reason for your townyness (and flums townyness), when you are also someone that usually stays away from pure mechtalk. I mean maybe that's different here. But still those thoughts crawl up my brain.

Also, to unravel the whole mechanics things, if we really must, I'll have a look at it later. I'm tired with a small headache and that's not a good starting point to analyse things. I also think we can't ignore what people think about the whole situation, so I definitely want to hear from Flum, RD and Jamie too, what they think about the early shot.

I think shot target made sense. He was confirmed town.
I agree the early shot was probably suboptimal. It implies whoever shot thinks the partner is not at risk. That does make Rdr unlikely to be a mafia with a shot left. I don't agree we should be specifically targeting the mafia we think still has a shot since there's too much room for wifom there.

[Fluminator]

hmm, hm.

Read and acknowledged. I also want the others to talk about this, and give their thoughts. Also, if you have questions to me, don't hesitate to ask. I think it should also be clear that we don't want to hammer today?

But I'm going to be a bit on the break myself the bit, and have a look again tomorrow morning with a clear head. And a coffee. We have time, so we should use it, but I've sat long on this game today already so I think it's fair that others should do also their part. I think Jamie did a big part already, but it couldn't hurt if he does a little more if he feels like it. Thoughts definitely appreciated. Flum I want to hear more of, definitely, especially about his thoughts of the shot.

And RD needs to do more. RD, if you are town, you are doing not much. I'm not convinced you are town. I want you to do your best to give me your thoughts, analyse what happened and hit me hard with your logic.

My time is limited this week and I can't do much about this. I am giving my thoughts as clearly as I can.

Answering Ghug about my assertions, I was clearing Kak because cast the last end vote. He could have killed Bunny and place a vote after EOD as people weren't online and it's auto win. But considering his messages today he could still be scum and just didn't understood the setup.

I also think the wagon on Sweet was opportunistic and probably at least one scum pushed it, that leaves Ghug and Flum. Now I am not sure anymore. But I am still surprised that people pushed a hammer, it makes no sense, unless you are really sure about it and it doesn't seems the case. The only voting we have is D1 were we vote a lurker.

Ok so even after you re-read the rules and said you had misconceptions about the setup, you are still saying "sweet wagon bad"?

[Fluminator]

only a little? I was pretty surprised. And yeah, RD would've probably be the prime target for a vote today. But he was also under suspicion from now dead townies. As are you.

I mean, there is a world where I see you and RD being town with me and a jamie-flum team. But this seems so unlikely, with you choosing and pushing the target yesterday.

Why didn't you try to endvote RD? What was your thought that sweet has to be the definite endvote? I still remember that he heavily suspected you, so it would be quite nice for maf-ghug to remove that voice. Plus bunny who was also beginning to suspect you.

I mean, sweet also was 100% mafpartner with ImpWill, from his own words, but yeah.

I'm also taken aback that you try to point to some mech reason for your townyness (and flums townyness), when you are also someone that usually stays away from pure mechtalk. I mean maybe that's different here. But still those thoughts crawl up my brain.

Also, to unravel the whole mechanics things, if we really must, I'll have a look at it later. I'm tired with a small headache and that's not a good starting point to analyse things. I also think we can't ignore what people think about the whole situation, so I definitely want to hear from Flum, RD and Jamie too, what they think about the early shot.

I'm confused by mafia's shooting decisions in general, and I do think Bunny was close enough to clear that he was probably going to be the kill regardless.

I didn't vote rd because he wasn't my top scumread. I probably would have hammered him if that's who people had wanted. I didn't try to hide that my scumread on him was in part based on his on me. I thought it was a shitty, bad faith argument.

I don't avoid pure mech talk. I don't like doing it early when it's unnecessary and easy for mafia to hide in, and I don't like mech-heavy setups, but I roll my sleeves up and get my hands dirty when the situation calls for it. I put myself out there D1 in the first Olympics game over a mechanical stance, for example, and I'm usually leading the charge in figuring things out mechanically if I'm alive in the late game.

I did try to hammer Rdr first, and you didn't join. How many other people needed to want it before you'd switch?

[ghug]

seems like I made a mistake, I thought the day ends today. But the bot say it's over a day left so I guess that's that.

Ah well, I'm doing some other stuff then and let you all catch up and hunt. You should still change and vote for Flum

You didn't answer any of my questions.

[ghug]

My current "what happened?" guess is that Ghug was not the shooter; but he hoped his stalling of his hammer vote on Sweet, at a time when it was probable that Worcej wasn't online, would buy his team-mate time to see what was happening and fire a shot.

That didn't happen, and Ghug's team-mate fired *after* the deadline, but Ghug was fully committed by then, hence his Big Balls attitude today.

I'm happy with my vote.

Why wouldn't I just shoot myself, though?

Surely shooting yourself is against your wincon.

Har har

[ghug]

only a little? I was pretty surprised. And yeah, RD would've probably be the prime target for a vote today. But he was also under suspicion from now dead townies. As are you.

I mean, there is a world where I see you and RD being town with me and a jamie-flum team. But this seems so unlikely, with you choosing and pushing the target yesterday.

Why didn't you try to endvote RD? What was your thought that sweet has to be the definite endvote? I still remember that he heavily suspected you, so it would be quite nice for maf-ghug to remove that voice. Plus bunny who was also beginning to suspect you.

I mean, sweet also was 100% mafpartner with ImpWill, from his own words, but yeah.

I'm also taken aback that you try to point to some mech reason for your townyness (and flums townyness), when you are also someone that usually stays away from pure mechtalk. I mean maybe that's different here. But still those thoughts crawl up my brain.

Also, to unravel the whole mechanics things, if we really must, I'll have a look at it later. I'm tired with a small headache and that's not a good starting point to analyse things. I also think we can't ignore what people think about the whole situation, so I definitely want to hear from Flum, RD and Jamie too, what they think about the early shot.

I'm confused by mafia's shooting decisions in general, and I do think Bunny was close enough to clear that he was probably going to be the kill regardless.

I didn't vote rd because he wasn't my top scumread. I probably would have hammered him if that's who people had wanted. I didn't try to hide that my scumread on him was in part based on his on me. I thought it was a shitty, bad faith argument.

I don't avoid pure mech talk. I don't like doing it early when it's unnecessary and easy for mafia to hide in, and I don't like mech-heavy setups, but I roll my sleeves up and get my hands dirty when the situation calls for it. I put myself out there D1 in the first Olympics game over a mechanical stance, for example, and I'm usually leading the charge in figuring things out mechanically if I'm alive in the late game.

I did try to hammer Rdr first, and you didn't join. How many other people needed to want it before you'd switch?

Probably one more. I was pretty confident I had Bunny's hammer on sweet if I could get the other two.

[Fluminator]

I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter what the real best strategy is, so we shouldn't focus on that, we can leave that for after the game. And honestly I want to spare me the pain, as I've already thought a lot of it and couldn't really see the point. And we have limited time and brainpower for solving, so just after game.

What matters though is what people thought at the time (or at least said they think). That I can fully agree with and that can be helpful to solve the game.

Ghug and Flum are on the "end to gain a misvote" train, as was Bunny.

Kak was on the "mafia needs to save shots for lategame or when just about to being voted out" train.

I think RD was more like on the "save shots" I think? And Jamie was ... hm, I'm unsure what both thought, so better check that. But that has time for later.


Now, I want you to go back mentally to just after the hammer. Kak saw bunny hammer, had his thought of line, waited in the thread, refreshing, looking when worcej came online, not seeing anyone else than occasionally bunny online, or MM popping on (or someone not in this game anymore). Rereading and trying to find a connection. Then worcej finally responded on discord about some GM questions (basically my fear there was that the day didn't end if maf-sweet shot one on his wagon, and I had some questions in case of the no-kill, if mafia could squeeze a shot in while it was hammered - stuff that doesn't really matter now), was just shy of 2pm my time. I think he's pacific, or one timezone to the east, so ghug was probably in the late stage of sleep or maybe woke up too, Flum should've been away I think and RD was on the late morning and probably at work, while Jamie also was at work but just past noon.

Worcej takes a bit, then adjucates the day. Kak is very agitated by the flip with no shot and enters panic mode, nearly loses his correct townread of bunny. After a bit of talking, Bunny is shot about .... half an hour or so? Kak is very surprised, but calms down thinking the late shot-thread has been luckily avoided, even if it had cost us a towny.

Feel free to read it back, but that's how I experienced it. I truly feel it was a huge mistake for mafia to take this shot. If I was mafia, I would've never (ok, never say never - but the probability is so disappearing small) taken that shot if I was mafia there. So, if you think I'm mafia, I still have the bullet. If you are convinced of it you should just vote me. I'm not, but if I haven't convinced you of that right now, I've done a not so good job. But that also means it removes my potential status as the shooter, which decreases my mathematical chance of being mafia.

Why am I talking about this? Because I think the best way is to vote out the mafia who didn't shoot. I'm currently torn between my emotional/gut read (jamie and RD feeling town there) and my logical/brain read (ghug is acting consistently for example). And both clash, but have some overlap. I still could be wrong.

But I had a thought about possible maf-teams and look at today's voting situation, and those were my thoughts:

possible maf-teams:
ghug-flum
ghug-jamie
ghug-RD

flum-jamie
flum-RD

jamie-RD

RD (2) Kakarroto ghug
ghug (2) Jamie RD
not voted: Fluminator

if ghug-RD maf team, both are bussing each other.

if flum-jamie team, doesn't matter both votes are bad

if ghug-flum team, flum might try to save or bus ghug for cred -> has flum the bullet in that case?

if ghug-jamie team, jamie is bussing ghug -> has jamie the bullet in that case?

if flum-RD team, flum might try to save or bus RD for cred -> has flum the bullet in that case?

if jamie-RD team, both are trying to get ghug voted out -> best to stay and hope flum follows

=> only one situation is benefitial for town
=> [random chance] change to either vote flum (3 chances, 2 of which flum has most likely the last bullet), or jamie (2 chances, 1 in which he has the bullet)

=> if I remove jamie as the most unlikely mafia imo, there are 2 chances flum is mafia with the bullet, and 1 where both mafia bus each other

Hmmmm ....

====================

so I went to bed with this thoughts, and woke up realizing that Flum didn't post much today and kinda went to the background. He didn't post after I went to bed too, so I think he has a great chance of being mafia here with this behaviour, trying to find the correct approach to not attract attention, biding time, making sure he survives whatever the cost.

This also tells me that it is likely, that one of RD and ghug is his partner, and he just doesn't want to commit early. He still probes if it's possible to get a misvote of another towny, and lock it in at a later stage, but still ready to bus if it's necessary to safe his own skin.

All that and the increased chance that Flum has the last bullet if he is mafia is pointin towards Flum being the correct vote here if town wants to win. So retreated engagement, the current situation, also if you look at it, nobody is really blaming him for the misvote of sweet; he was second to vote and endvote, so he has the easy opt out of "I was just following orders". But this is also a good spot for mafia to join any wagon to misvote townies. He has neither the consequences for choosing the target, and not the consequences for ending the day; but technically, if he endvoted someone else, say RD, the mood could've easily shifted and we would've voted RD out.

Hm, does that make the team RD-Flum the most likey? Maybe. Am I totally sure about this a la sweet style? No, I could easily be wrong. But this theory explains Flums behaviour holding back, even when he was always there, at least for a bit, to give his thoughts. This silence now from him is letting my hair stand up.

Yeah, I think we need to vote Flum or we will lose

##vote Fluminator

So your voting me because you think I'm least likely to make a mistake in shooting early as scum? That is so bad.

Also analyzing when the shot happened is definitely a trap. Whoever shot knows what times they are expected to be around and could easily manipulate that and set an alarm. Either you're town playing into a trap analyzing it, or you're the scum who shot as a hail mary to get a misleading discussion point. (I do confirm I was asleep when that happened)
Do we even know how long before Worcej received the message before posting the kill?

[Fluminator]

also, why is it important to get the one with the bullet today?

if there is a shotless mafia there, and have 3 town, so 3-1, we have 3!!! chances to vote out the last mafia. 3-1 and 2-1 due to majority, and if we get it wrong both time and it gets to 1-1, the surviving town HAS to be on his toes and be ready to instantly vote for the other survivor - if faster, we still win there.

Now, it could be that we don't vote out the mafia with the bullet, and we have no idea if we did or not. But if we get mafia today, we will have the day of 3-1. If it's 2-1, both town need to be faster than mafia and vote the mafia, if he has still the shot. So keep that in mind, but lets cross that bridge if we get there.

Focusing the kill based on a piece of info directly manipulated by mafia is not a good plan. If we get the mafia that shot that's really great but not killing the most scummy person because we think they aren't the correct mafia is bad.