WebMafia Olympics: Bonus Qualification Round

[kingofthepirates]

what makes you think, I wouldn't hellbus my mafteammate?

just look at M72: I subbed in for Donny, who was mafia, at a time where it was a toss up between my mafia partner and a town. Damo was mafia at the time btw, and I think the other town on the block was Bob

I just voted damo and got him out of the game, and got to the end. Damo probably didn't deserve this and I should be ashamed doing that, but I saw a path of victory, and if I sided with damo voting out bob, I thought we will lose.

But yeah, me voting damo here doesn't make us not maf partners. I mean I'm town, but you can't defer anything from that vote. Well other that I think that we should remove damo.

No time to do anything, dinner lasted wayyy too long (family friends). I like kak as town, but I’ll admit that I’m a sucker for posts like this (like not refuting townreads of oneself, but explaining there are deeper things to consider, I think it shows great self awareness. Sure this can be done as worthier alignment, but I think it’s a town lean.

[FlaviusAetius]

D3 is a day of action how are we STILL on pressure votes? You need to actually make a case against someone you are coasting.

Because I didn’t scum read willkak at all? He had unfulfilled obligations (an unexplained theory, low posting despite claiming to want to be town lead), and I wanted to push him to fill those.

As for a case: I’m on mobile on a car ride rn, and will probably be out for a couple hours. My plan for this evening is an ISO (if I’m using that term right?) of either: damo, dip, or chaqa. Flavius’s defense is… decent enough for me. Also my incredibly arbitrary and biased decision maker likes his PVZ references. Never thought flav was one to use emoticons though.

What's decent about Flav's defence? All he's done is call us zombies and tunnel on Dip.

##unend. Sigh.

But thats the point there is no case against me, and its a zombie wagon AKA the reasons for it are just overall weak...and not even there!
Im ASKING for a case so I can actually fight against it...

@kotp I UNDERSTAND you want to push him to be more active but maybe just maybe you can pair that with something else just seems so basic this deep into the game

[FlaviusAetius]

Usually a good time for one of these since I haven't seen it yet.

Day 1 End Votes:
Haze: Dip, Will, Yoyo, Damo, Bunny
Bunny: ghug, chaqa, flavius
yoyo: jamie, Brian
Chaqa: king
Dip: haze

Day 2 End Votes:
Bunny, Flavius, ghug, yoyo, will, chaqa
Will/Kak: Brian, king, Bunny, Dip
Flavius: Damo

Day 2 had the scrambling movement to prevent the tie so we need to look at the early votes leading up to the end.

So for D1, if we assume a chaqa or flavius (S & T or S & S) they could have been content to stay on Bunny knowing that town was going to kill Haze.
Is there a possibility of Chaqa-Flavius team?

Also D1 and D2 common voters between the kills are yoyo and will.

As of now there's no CC so willing to up yoyo in to a town placement BUT there's no confirmation of Will/Kak's alignment.

Currently remove yoyo from pairings.

WRONG.
It was not certain that Haze was going to die D1, in fact WillKak was up there too unfortunately all my convincing to make WillKak not be wagon caused Haze to die. Who to be fair I ALSO was arguing against

[FlaviusAetius]

Also @damo every person that I argue against does not mean I am AUTOMATICALLY in a tunnel

[FlaviusAetius]

Eh why not

##Vote Flavius
##End

*zombie noises* WHY zombie wagon me

Calling the zombie wagon when I suspected you yesterday as well feels disingenuous

That ISNT the definition I gave to a zombie wagon tho

[FlaviusAetius]

You could have suspected me since the start but if no resaons were actually being provided thats a zombie wagon!!

[kingofthepirates]

What's decent about Flav's defence? All he's done is call us zombies and tunnel on Dip.

It was, imo, passable. Nothing extraordinary but he answered several points. Idk if it can be called a tunnel, dip was the first on flavors and I think the most outspoken. I think that his several jabs at dip were unneeded but otherwise it made sense to me on a surface level read through.

[FlaviusAetius]

Anyone here? It’s lonely…

I really want to hear flav’s thoughts on the current situation. I think we might have to wait for that before the next few fireworks go off.

Ham, I might take up your idea of comparing your posts with flavs. Going out for the day tho so success is iffy.

now after I've slept, why should we do this work for him? If he's town, he should do it himself, to convince us of his perspective.

And if he's mafia, it sure feels like busywork for others. Brian, do that yourself and prove yourself to us!

I gave my thoughts...Im not sitting around nad waiting for NO ONE

[FlaviusAetius]

explain game one then

idk I wasnt in game 1 or even read it. IDK what happened there only that the D1 was a big mess.

Brian was town until the end, even quite good, so that he got enough votes to proceed, even when he was on the losing team

there is also the item game, where I was mafia, I think it was Will's first game here (?), where he was town and made it to the final four. Where I barely won as mafia, because Will looked a little bit more sus than me.

So if Brian is alive a long time, it doesn't mean he is necessarily mafia

Then think of it like this
HB THIS game is a townclear for many people. So for THIS game if a townclear survives for a long time, you must start suspecting them. That is why for THIS game if HB survives a long time he's got to be looked at as sus.

However for THIS game I dont think its possible to find the sleeper agent without first finding the sus person

[FlaviusAetius]

ok, caught up. 2 am here, so probably not too long around? Maybe I soldier on if people respond.

Btw, not much has happened since I started. Isn't it like afternoon in the US? There should be more going on, no?

Anyway, yoyo should be hands off, d&w is a townlean for me, currently. Flav I'm flip flopping, but I think he is more town here.

I don't have a good read about kotp, though not necessarily mafia. I could see him being there, coasting, though, so valid vote target. Chaqa I don't have a good feel for too, need more interaction with him to determine more. Voting there is not wrong.

I'm currently more sus on damo and Brian. First damo had a team of jamie and will, than that totally vanished, and after jamie was targeted N1, it didn't influence anything about will, and suddenly he paired will more with flav. Compare that with ghug being targeted N2 after he uttered him sussing damo. Not likeing it. Very much not liking it.

And I've seen some moves that connect Brian with damo, possibly. I think that there is not an unreasonable chance that both are mafia together.

Sure, could be coincidence and I might read Flav wrongly, but I ain't mafia and maybe I should vote kotp with yoyo but I just read 78 pages of this game and I at least want to express my sus on damo.

so ##vote damo666

NGL I was suspecting something more like a deep analysis on the development of the game or something. I think you put a decent case against damo but it doesnt even feel like a real one rather you are hedging on damo and masking it over with a vote that will probs go no where anyways

WHY do you need interaction with Chaqa he's said plenty

I came home pretty late, read stuff up I missed on discord, then noticed that sweet had put out a question for a sub, which I responded to; then I began reading the game as fast as I can.

took me 4 hours and 42 minutes, if I'm counting the time on here correctly, to read up the 78 pages. With that information input and the time pressure, I think it's rather silly to expect an indepth analysis

as for hedging, what can I say, I always do that when I'm not sure, and I'm seldom really are. At least for gut feelings and fast conclusions/theories. See, while I want to get to the truth, I also don't want to look bad or stupid, so I don't put in too much confidence when I have doubts (which I have, oh boy, there are doubts everywhere).

That's just something you have to deal with when trying to read me. I try to have an open mind, not getting tunnely, trying to think 'what if'. The more we think of possibilities, the more we see what is logical, what is plausible, and what is rubbish, from our thoughts.

So yeah, I am not convinced that damo is mafia. Possible? Oh, yes. But it's neither a proven fact nor gospel.

As for chaqa, I need more data to determine if he's town, mafia, or mafia acting as if he's town. I also need information how he reacts to me, to get a better feeling.

You have a very unique opportunity to look at this game with fresh eye and without any biases. The fact that you want to even speak to Chaqa before developing an opinion on him just seems so out of left field as compared to everyone else you have judged

[kingofthepirates]

I think Brian has a great chance of being damo's partner, and I don't know how you townread him that high. I am however known to have some weird reads, so I could be wrong.

Wanted to come back to this. A lot of my opinion on ham b came from his D1, where he felt very in control. Maybe just me, and ham’s steering of the game I feel has slowly tapered off. Still don’t want to vote him just yet tho.

I think the fact you’ve been able to read everything all together very quickly is 1)impressive and 2)it gives you a totally different angle from the rest of us.

[FlaviusAetius]

If I could vote for Dip & Chaqa here I WOULD. Doing my case on Chaqa SOON

you have a vote, right? Use it. You aren't banned from voting any of those two

I voted Dip before you joined so big fat false

[FlaviusAetius]

the endvote was mostly to emphasize that I was serious. I don't actually want to hammer this.
##unend

It got dangerously close I honestly expected it would be joeover for me when I got back home

yes, it did get very close

so, if Flav is town, I don't think mafia would've let this chance pass. So we have a high probability, that both mafia were already on Flav in that case. Kotp, yoyo and I all had the chance to endvote and didn't.

I think we have to look at those endvotes, and the development of it. That would tell us a lot if Flav is town.

If Flav is maf ... well, then town missed a quick removal of a mafia. It might very well that the other mafia would endvote here, especially with the possibility of a long night, but it wouldn't be necessarily so. So I don't think we can not infer too much from it. Though I concede, that I would look more like I was trying to save Flav here.

You are probably my #1 defender rn MAYBE you have rose colored glasses because of that one game you got out and then I did and we were in graveyard chat together I cant say for sure , I wish people would just look at what I've been saying but the zombie wagon doesnt want too

[FlaviusAetius]

Which ISNT a bad thing BTW, if there is a tie no DK no NK

Why wouldn’t there be a NK?

It's an interesting question. It's assuming that the Gambler bet was on the daykill. If Bunny was the bet, and bunny didn't die, then there would be no night kill.

Is Flav speaking from a place of knowledge here? They KNEW bunny was the bet?

YES bunny was on the bet I've explained this a million times it makes no sense for the Gambler to do any bets BUT the post count and DK guess, AKA the game would not be one with lots of NKs .

In fact YOU are the one who said that was a pretty clever thing to point out! WHY now do you say this is reason for guessing I am mafia . SUS

[FlaviusAetius]

Suddenly a different game now with Kak involved.

Doesn't change the complexion of the Will votes, but we really don't have the time and space to offer Kak to establish themselves as town or not.

We need to see where this day leads us and I am willing to ##UNEND to use it to get further information.

The case on Will was horrible from the jump and Kak here proved how much that argument was silly on its face. VERY sus tho of all the people (cough including yourself) that were SURE of Will's mafianess and now all of a sudden arent

PERHAPS people realize crossing against Kak is a mistake if we dont kill mafia today Kak dies N3, Yoyo dies D4, we lose

you think I would be nk'ed before yoyo? Explain your thoughts please

If yoyo lives to D4 he should pretty much be auto dead. You came in this game with A LOT of energy, this thread was going to be dead otherwise, mafia cant let that happen

[FlaviusAetius]

I see, thanks. So I'm pretty sure the HB-damo mafteam is rubbish in your mind?

regarding flipping flav before the end: I guess too many people have him as sus, so I guess that's right. I think today might not be the best if we care about the gambler, though if he is mafia it would be still a victory. I want to hear what he has to say, and if he is town, I think it might be better to wait for another day to flip him.

Why must I be flipped at all ? There are other sus people that poeple think besides just me...what have I done besides fail on one read like cmon people

well, many people maf read you, so if you are allowed to proceed to the very end, people would probably be blocked by a "but what if Flav is mafia" and just vote you out. If you're mafia, that good of course (though we should've voted you out sooner), and if you're town, that's very bad.

Also, your alignment might be crucial to get us thinking straight, like, if you flip town, we could very easily retract kotp, yoyo and me from the maf pool and focus on the other four. If you are mafia, we get a lot of time, and the likelyhood of some of those endvoting you goes way, way down. Though in that case, I think it doesn't really clear anyone.

So yeah, maybe 'must flip' is not fully true, but knowing your alignment, really knowing it, could go far for us.

The inevitability of it all just doesnt seem right. AND if we havent flipped two mafia yet throwing away a town is not going to do any good

[FlaviusAetius]

well, it's 6:20 am here, and I'm really tired. Pretty sure I saw flav in the list for a time, but not for a time anymore. Maybe he's making a megapost, or just don't post at all.

Wanted to wait to see his response, that he said would come, but will see later after I got some sleep if something comes. But maybe I was just wrong in my town lean read there :/

anyway, good night, and keep talking, kotp and damo should be have a good time frame, so I suggest you to to get to it, too.

I leave this tab open 24/7 unless Im playing some kind of game because my computer is really bad and needs everything shut off basically

ugh, I shall not fall into the pit of trying to metagame. Happened often enough that this was the case

How is that metagaming sometimes ppl are genuinely just looking at the thread and not responding, calling them out can do real good

[FlaviusAetius]

Impressive catch up f on Kak but if Will had bequeathed him a scum role it was right up Kai's alley to provide such a performance.

I think his vote on me is an excuse not to vote Flav.

When Flav flips scum Kak should go next.

In the unlikely event Flav flips town we should probably look at Chaqa.

If the scumpair are in {Dip, Ham, kotp} we have almost certainly lost anyway.

what is this doomer mentality? Stop this, we aren't near to lose. It is 6:2 right now, right? 5:2 if we get it wrong, 4:2 if there is no save. Tomorrow, if we misvote again, then it is 3:2, sure, but the possibility of a save lives on.

Furthermore, it is only day 3, and you are way too locked in to your reads. How can you be that sure? This reminds me much more of your mafgame, where you try to put thoughts into the mind of town, that are just wrong. The game is still wide open, and all of dip, ham and kotp has the chance of being mafia.

Also I doubt I could do this in that way as mafia. Honestly, I fear the next time I'm mafia, because I will probably voted out so quickly since I can't be myself, really, or at least my town self. I was so happy when I read the role info from sweet, although I got the info a little bit late, as sweet was busy at the time, and it all had a feel of haste and rush. But I got all info in the end, so all great.

Anyway, we are not on a fixed path, and we need to use our brains to think, so if you are town, stop shutting down.

W WILLKAK

[damo666]

Impressive catch up f on Kak but if Will had bequeathed him a scum role it was right up Kai's alley to provide such a performance.

I think his vote on me is an excuse not to vote Flav.

When Flav flips scum Kak should go next.

In the unlikely event Flav flips town we should probably look at Chaqa.

If the scumpair are in {Dip, Ham, kotp} we have almost certainly lost anyway.

what is this doomer mentality? Stop this, we aren't near to lose. It is 6:2 right now, right? 5:2 if we get it wrong, 4:2 if there is no save. Tomorrow, if we misvote again, then it is 3:2, sure, but the possibility of a save lives on.

Furthermore, it is only day 3, and you are way too locked in to your reads. How can you be that sure? This reminds me much more of your mafgame, where you try to put thoughts into the mind of town, that are just wrong. The game is still wide open, and all of dip, ham and kotp has the chance of being mafia.

Also I doubt I could do this in that way as mafia. Honestly, I fear the next time I'm mafia, because I will probably voted out so quickly since I can't be myself, really, or at least my town self. I was so happy when I read the role info from sweet, although I got the info a little bit late, as sweet was busy at the time, and it all had a feel of haste and rush. But I got all info in the end, so all great.

Anyway, we are not on a fixed path, and we need to use our brains to think, so if you are town, stop shutting down.

OK I'm warming to Kak and following this appeal I am going to re-examine with the following assumptions:

yoyo is BB
Kak is NOT scum

Firstly examining Flav as scum, his possible partners are:

Chaqa: means they both voted Bunny D1 - unlikely, mutual bussing D3 and C bussing F D2 just moving off EOD to avoid a tie. Seems an unlikely combo of events - REJECT

Dip: Implies mutally bussing D3, D also bussing D1 & D2 and some impressive theatre. All too much and in any case I lean pretty town on Dip - REJECT

Ham: H briefly voted F day 1 but not at all D2 when F was under severe pressure. Ham currently voting F putting him 2-2 when Kak was 3-1 ahead. Possible they agreed for H to bus if F in trouble but timing doesn't look right - REJECT

kotp: k voted F early doors but never since including today when F looks in trouble - kotp looks Flav's most likely scum partner.

Looking at Flavtown in next post.

[DiplomacyandWarfare]

Because I didn’t scum read willkak at all? He had unfulfilled obligations (an unexplained theory, low posting despite claiming to want to be town lead), and I wanted to push him to fill those.

As for a case: I’m on mobile on a car ride rn, and will probably be out for a couple hours. My plan for this evening is an ISO (if I’m using that term right?) of either: damo, dip, or chaqa. Flavius’s defense is… decent enough for me. Also my incredibly arbitrary and biased decision maker likes his PVZ references. Never thought flav was one to use emoticons though.

What's decent about Flav's defence? All he's done is call us zombies and tunnel on Dip.

##unend. Sigh.

But thats the point there is no case against me, and its a zombie wagon AKA the reasons for it are just overall weak...and not even there!
Im ASKING for a case so I can actually fight against it...

@kotp I UNDERSTAND you want to push him to be more active but maybe just maybe you can pair that with something else just seems so basic this deep into the game

you don't get to talk about crappy wagons.