Mafia XL - A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum

[Durga]

we're voting based on contributions? since when

i'm thinking I could vote for peterlund

[rdrivera2005]

I still don't like DrCJG on re-read, he states that he'll be fear killed because he has never been town before and thinks scum won't want him to stick around and solve which I think is a load of crap.

*Snipped*

and trying to get a Vecna wagon started. Which to be fair seems to be an original idea, but he tried with less than 15 minutes and no other votes on Vecna.

I'll ##vote DrCJG

@ Ike - My post about being NK'd may have been a little too light hearted... Balki and Xorxes were (I thought jokingly) fighting over who would be NK'd and I threw in my comment. Both are far more experienced than me (same with Tom and many others) so a true "fear kill" would of course be unlikely on me.

I think I snipped too much as your other main comment was that I have been largely riding on others coat tails... I admit, I feel like I haven't been able to get a great read on anyone including you.

• Do you agree that you were oddly cold and formal in your response to Jamie/Worcej regarding the prior game? Did you really not understand the point Worcej was making?
• What do you think happened at the EOD1? was there a scum save?

I've made multiple attempts to talk about the box, info gained and what's lost from claiming early, strategies to circumvent the negatives, but no one seems to want to talk about it. Damo, Bo, would either of you like to discuss?

I am willing to talk about it. What is your current proposal? I mentioned earlier that I think a box recipient should claim to have had the box 2 days after having had the box such that the box recipient passed it to someone and the box was passed again before claiming... this makes it so that it is possible for the box to be passed back to the original box recipient, but begins to give the rest of town potentially useful information.

I do agree I was cold and formal in my response, but I don't think it's odd. Go read the other parts of the Game and you'll see I've corrected 2 other people on mistakes they've made too. Worcej said something about my game that was incorrect, after my comment he corrected himself. I think there was some confusion on his part when I said everyone was sent a role PM, I should have probably added that some people were sent their flavor in their PM, but he also said that VTs would get a pm at some point later in the game which was incorrect.

As for D1, 3 of the 6 votes ending on Damo and 3 of the 4 votes ending on Demon came more than 2 hours before EOD, at this point THD had 1 vote from Ghug. During those last 2 hours, the Peter wagon and the Ike wagon as well as a few other one vote wagons consolidated on THD. I find it strange that Damo and Demon didnt really have it out for each other, but were perfectly fine hopping in THD to seal the deal. Demon had scum read him before Demon went on some Yav tonal scum slip rant and held his vote on him until the last minutes. Maybe theyre scum together? Damo's self vote could have been a signal to Demon that he was willing to take the fall? I'm not sure.

As for the box, I think we claim it, who we're sending it to, what we got, everything right when it happens. We have a doctor that can save the person passing the box for a day so they can use their item draw. They do have a driver to flop the save to someone else, but if we have the watcher watch the box passer then he would see who the driver was. Scum could drive the box to themselves too, but again, the watcher just needs to watch the box passer. I see it as more beneficial than hurtful to town to have the box claimed, but I could be wrong, the driver complicates things...

Ike, I think we already discussed and dismissed this box claiming, at least on the first days.
I still miss what town gains from knowing who have the box and what it loses is clear, scum knows who not to target and at least one town PR (Doc and maybe even Observer) will have to gamble on what scum will do or will just be forced to a play. And with the driver scum could even make things more chaotic.

[rdrivera2005]

vote by peter looks sooooo opportunistic

Agree.
He made a push on Balki and then voted Damo. There is no way scum Balki will defend scum Damo so openly.

[DrCJG]

I do agree I was cold and formal in my response, but I don't think it's odd. Go read the other parts of the Game and you'll see I've corrected 2 other people on mistakes they've made too. Worcej said something about my game that was incorrect, after my comment he corrected himself. I think there was some confusion on his part when I said everyone was sent a role PM, I should have probably added that some people were sent their flavor in their PM, but he also said that VTs would get a pm at some point later in the game which was incorrect.

As for D1, 3 of the 6 votes ending on Damo and 3 of the 4 votes ending on Demon came more than 2 hours before EOD, at this point THD had 1 vote from Ghug. During those last 2 hours, the Peter wagon and the Ike wagon as well as a few other one vote wagons consolidated on THD. I find it strange that Damo and Demon didnt really have it out for each other, but were perfectly fine hopping in THD to seal the deal. Demon had scum read him before Demon went on some Yav tonal scum slip rant and held his vote on him until the last minutes. Maybe theyre scum together? Damo's self vote could have been a signal to Demon that he was willing to take the fall? I'm not sure.

As for the box, I think we claim it, who we're sending it to, what we got, everything right when it happens. We have a doctor that can save the person passing the box for a day so they can use their item draw. They do have a driver to flop the save to someone else, but if we have the watcher watch the box passer then he would see who the driver was. Scum could drive the box to themselves too, but again, the watcher just needs to watch the box passer. I see it as more beneficial than hurtful to town to have the box claimed, but I could be wrong, the driver complicates things...

• I can understand the prior game being a sensitive subject, but your response still came across as unhelpful when you could have steered town back on track
• I like your point that half/more of the people on Damo/Demon had been there well before EoD, but I see this as a reason not to think they are both scum... surely scum would have moved earlier and not let two scum wagons be leading going into EoD.
• So your suggestion is full knowledge... that at the start of each day a player would announce who they passed the box to and what they got from the box the previous night...
  
  I am trying to play it out in my head and I keep getting scenarios where I am not sure if its an advantageous... the only advantages I have come up with are:
  1) If a gun is used we are more likely to know the source;
  2) Doctor knows who he doesn't need to heal (aka the box receiver)
  3) If an Observer sees a box move he knows its a box rather than a different visit.
  
  Other benefits?

[peterlund]

vote by peter looks sooooo opportunistic

So Durga. Let's hear your opinions about who is scum or not at last. I have been waiting for it long time now.

[DrCJG]

Screwed up the quote again, apologies.

[Durga]

vote by peter looks sooooo opportunistic

So Durga. Let's hear your opinions about who is scum or not at last. I have been waiting for it long time now.

You've been waiting? I never got that impression

##vote peter

[peterlund]

##VOTE DURGA

[Ezio]

Hey @xorxes
How much of your analysis was based on spozi being scum? I saw you put together this elaborate bb-esque scumteam with me as the #1 read.

[peterlund]

vote by peter looks sooooo opportunistic

So Durga. Let's hear your opinions about who is scum or not at last. I have been waiting for it long time now.

You've been waiting? I never got that impression

##vote peter

So you refuse to give me a scum read list? Oooh!!

[DrCJG]

With the Damo wagon taking off... what happened to those that preferred Demon in D1?

@Yavu
@ Bo
@Xorxes

[RagingIke297]

Screwed up the quote again, apologies.

I would say other benefits include scum are a little less likely to pass the box between themselves, we as town know what tools we have access too, and we know what we will and won't be able to pull from the box based on what's been pulled, so we aren't betting on pulling an item late game that's already been pulled. Those are all I remember right now

[Durga]

##VOTE DURGA

lol omgus

[peterlund]

##VOTE DURGA

lol omgus

Yes, no problem I confess that, BUT YOU NEED TO MAKE A STATEMENT (or prove where before you ever made a proper statement...)

[Durga]

I have to? Really? I can't just speculate till the end of the game?

[yavuzovic]

People voting damo find Szpoti/Ezio's contributions more towny than damo's?

##vote Ezio since apparently it doesn't transfer automatically.

Still pretty sure damo is town.

Xorxes protecting damo?!
We will see his alignment when dami flips.

[yavuzovic]

People voting damo find Szpoti/Ezio's contributions more towny than damo's?

##vote Ezio since apparently it doesn't transfer automatically.

Still pretty sure damo is town.

Xorxes protecting damo?!
We will see his alignment when dami flips.

[yavuzovic]

*facepalm*

[peterlund]

I have to? Really? I can't just speculate till the end of the game?

No you cannot! :)

[worcej]

So, I'll first apologize for being MIA and lurking heavily over N1 and D2. Rough weekend of work, including a night shift, makes my ability to stay relevant in a mafia game somewhat slim.

For the sake of providing content, these are some observations I had regarding what has happened N1/D2:

• Ike - Continues to be deflective and somewhat reactionary to people pushing him. Bo's push on him felt similar to what ghug was doing D1 and the same type of responses are what we got out of him. What I can say is the deflection seems to have hit it's peak with his pushing of DrCJG - who is somewhat scummy to other players for other reasons, so it feels like it's an attempt to get some people to sheep him in that direction.
• Xorxes - I did not like his list the scum team, it felt weak and had little explanation as to the choices of yavu and DrCJG/Ike. What made it worse was it was similar to what Damo has done (which I don't like either): just nailed people as town and then the others are null, so they must be guilty? I felt it was a convenient assembly of people others scum read - too artificial to make me believe it's validity.
• Balki - Vecna 'trained' him pretty hard on page 54, but the points were pretty valid about going over the top on Damo's defense. Of note: I still agree that Damo is town, but it just felt like Balki was trying too hard. Others have commented on this since, and recent posts from Balki were trying to push Durga, which I think is the first time someone has presented her as scum (I could be wrong, I saw people throw her shade but not much actual case building), so it makes me feel like Balki is town, especially paired up with his take of how to handle the box, and trying to hunt right now.
• Vecna - Speaking of Vecna... he definitely came alive today! My take on him so far is he is scum hunting well, going after multiple people and trying to engage. I like the play personally and just wanted to highlight it.

That all being said, I definitely don't like the leading wagon. I still get strong town vibes from Damo and wish I could convey said vibes to the rest of you. I've just engaged him enough to get a sense of how he plays under pressure, so unless this is him being very calculated (it isn't), then I still believe this is a mistake.

This feels wasted, but ##vote Xorxes - I won't vote for someone I truly believe is town.