WebMafia Olympics - Game #2 - Star Trek TNG: The Republic of Q [GAME THREAD]

[FlaviusAetius]

Btw why is nobody else participating in my scheme? Even if you scumread me the scheme is sound from a TPOV.

geez, describing it like that, who would be suspicious

Feeling far more confident now that damo is obv!scum that tried his best to salvage the game.

yea. His recent reads pivot is clearly just him manufacturing a worldview that conveniently lets him scumread the people who are auto-voting him tomorrow and townread the people who might wrongly bail him out. His position didn’t emerge from an organic reassessment of the game, just him “scheming” (literally his word not mine lol) about who his allies are. I suspect he’s giving you and only you a pass because he knows you’re going to die tonight

Dont you think maybe just maybe the perfect strategy in this game perhaps the only way for mafia to win is to become locktown and early ? Then focus all of your attention on those who were initially viewed as scummy?

Rethinking the game is a necessity in a setup like this, I say we go for 2/3 of Damo, Will & I (worcej's reads) then we pick one more person for our third kill

[FlaviusAetius]

So how does night phase work compared to day? What are we supposed to be doing? Strategizing how not to lose I’m gathering? Other than Damo’s stupid idea of voting for me, what do we think? Eden suggests that we find the one most scum, makes sense, that’s kinda what I’ve been focusing on anyway.

I’d also like to point out the hypocrisy of Chaqa. He declared that he would vote for anyone who voted for Eden. But he did! Was that just to make up for the fact that he somehow didn’t know his Eden vote was real? Sounds like something someone would do if it was their first game…. But I didn’t make that mistake!

So again going back to Eden’s point - IF Damo is town, who do we find most likely to be mafia instead? I’m curious to know why Damo is so set on FB? All I see is that his vote on fisch opened up Damo to do his last minute vote and get rid of fisch and mess things up for us to get more than one kill. It essentially saved Will and Flav. So did FB know what he was doing and that Damo would inevitably take the bait of a last minute vote on a pretty obvi town read?

Flav and Will were high on vote counts - are they no longer on radar? FB had zero votes and I think we need to look at why, if they’re just super good at being scummy or if they’re just town.

Just my few thoughts at the moment.

Underrated comment about Chaqa and maybe someone who should be our third vote. I've been sus about Chaqa for a good bit now, and I'll put my money where my mouth is. ##vote Chaqa

[FlaviusAetius]

So how does night phase work compared to day? What are we supposed to be doing? Strategizing how not to lose I’m gathering? Other than Damo’s stupid idea of voting for me, what do we think? Eden suggests that we find the one most scum, makes sense, that’s kinda what I’ve been focusing on anyway.

I’d also like to point out the hypocrisy of Chaqa. He declared that he would vote for anyone who voted for Eden. But he did! Was that just to make up for the fact that he somehow didn’t know his Eden vote was real? Sounds like something someone would do if it was their first game…. But I didn’t make that mistake!

So again going back to Eden’s point - IF Damo is town, who do we find most likely to be mafia instead? I’m curious to know why Damo is so set on FB? All I see is that his vote on fisch opened up Damo to do his last minute vote and get rid of fisch and mess things up for us to get more than one kill. It essentially saved Will and Flav. So did FB know what he was doing and that Damo would inevitably take the bait of a last minute vote on a pretty obvi town read?

Flav and Will were high on vote counts - are they no longer on radar? FB had zero votes and I think we need to look at why, if they’re just super good at being scummy or if they’re just town.

Just my few thoughts at the moment.

I’ve been playing mafia here for like 10 years. This is the first game ever ever where we aren’t allowed to unvote. I fucked up lol

X to doubt

[damo666]

Something else to consider is that Final 3 in this scenario is very townsided. Only one of the two townies needs to obvtown for town to win - the obvtown votes both other players and the remaining two players cross-vote.

So a triple kill that hits one mafia is actually very good. We don’t need it to win the game, we just need not to brick completely.

Precisely. The last bit .

Eden if you are scum please consider the possibility of say {TFB, Chaqa} or maybe one of those plus gbomb.

If we kill 3 and miss town are dead.

If we kill 2 and both are town we lose.

If we are not going to kill any of TFB, Chaqa, gbomb then the best course of action is to kill me alone.

When I flip town a lot of the reason to suspect Will and Flav will evaporate.

Problem is i suspect you will then be the NK.

However if Will and Flav can persuade the town in the other three to single kill one of the other pair we have a fighting chance.


I recommend we kill one person only. Either me or TFB.

If I get mk'd PLEASE kill TFB tomorrow.

[FlaviusAetius]

##Call GM

Clarification - can end votes be retracted?

Nope!

Ha HA!

Now that's a way to fuck scum out of last second shenanigans.

@Eden this should ALLAY all concerns you have with the 3 votes being ruined they cant be

[damo666]

In short:

- You should advocate for a triple kill if you wisely recognize our only realistic chance of winning is to hit mafia today, and you believe we can overcome the coordination problem of needing to maintain a tie against hostile actors.

- You should advocate for a double kill if you also wisely recognize our only realistic chance of winning is to hit mafia today, but you are worried about the coordination problem.

- You should advocate for a single kill if your short-term risk-aversion prohibits you from seeing past your nose.

Ok if you really must triple kill then me (obviously although it's wrong), Flav who I saved (I may have been wrong, doubt it but you never know) and TFB.

[FlaviusAetius]

Anyways, I am feeling much better about salvaging the game if we go with the end vote strategy between my ~core~town~ (Eden, Chaqa, TFB) and flipping the three of Damo, Will, and Flav.

Using the basis of the game being at 5-2, these are the results I see:

• The 3 of them are all town. We all suck, Damo gets LVP for the game, and we enjoy reading the GT for how dumb we are.
• Damo is town, but one of Flav/Will is scum. Damo still gets LVP for the game, but it isn't game over.
• We get only Damo as scum, duh, but Flav/Will are town. Interesting... game on to KYLO on D3.
• We get both scum, GG - get rekt scumbros.

EVERYONE should reread the worcej posts on damo. I think he right . We should kill damo & will here. I think he's so convinced of his posisiton that basically anything damo does was going to be viewed as scum.

The reason I vote Will is because he did other things during D1 that I'll have to go back and check for, as to why I say he is a scum besides just this damo + will connection.
I honestly dont believe damo would try to save his teammate here, not a chance. However I do like everything else worcej dug up and damo has got to be a vote.

REMEMBER though, they could have killed worcej because he was NOT on the money and so they want him to follow his reads. Or he could be right on the money and they want us to think he isnt. Either way its WIFOM and we have the perfect opportunity to just do both.

I say the three votes should be Will, Damo & Chaqa

[FlaviusAetius]

Wouldn’t it be better to stagger out the votes rather than meeting at once? Everyone votes END immediately, sure, but then the coalition makes sure to space things out so there’s more time to react to scum manipulation + less notice for scum to meddle in the first place.

You said you didnt want to be the person who holds out...who should be? I say Glitter then

[GlitterBomb]

??? If you wanted information N1 NK is the best one for that, fischl was a genuine candidate to be killed D1, was he truly the best for that? NO. He's a wasted MK in the scenario you wanted.

Instead he's been made into something worthwhile , we essentially reset the game! An opportunity for a D1 but with more info

In what world do you get more info from an NK of the most townread person over the actual machinations of a day

GUIDANCE!
We should treat whatever worcej says as basically gospel , and since we get multiple kills today we should also do the opposite , that way if they killed worcej cause hew as getting close to the truth, boom we got a mafia.
If they killed worcej cause he was way oof, boom we got a mafia

Either way its perfect.

What if…. Worcej was killed because it very obviously then frames Damo? Worc was livid with what happened at EOD and the last minute vote that resulted in only one kill. It almost seems too neat that Worc would be the one to die. Like bait.

[FlaviusAetius]

Worcej, I really appreciate how you laid everything out. I’m in alignment with you. But I’m super confused and hesitant about this end vote strategy. Not super confident in my understanding of it and if it’s the right approach. Will need more info if not killed!

Glitter Im going to be honest with you, you seem like a smart person, I think you are playing up this noobieness too much and its making me suspicious of you. Classic noob strat I played it myself >:) xD

[FlaviusAetius]

In what world do you get more info from an NK of the most townread person over the actual machinations of a day

GUIDANCE!
We should treat whatever worcej says as basically gospel , and since we get multiple kills today we should also do the opposite , that way if they killed worcej cause hew as getting close to the truth, boom we got a mafia.
If they killed worcej cause he was way oof, boom we got a mafia

Either way its perfect.

What if…. Worcej was killed because it very obviously then frames Damo? Worc was livid with what happened at EOD and the last minute vote that resulted in only one kill. It almost seems too neat that Worc would be the one to die. Like bait.

ANDDD thats the issue! But also the solution we can do it ALL! We can vote for who worcej thought was scum and we can vote for who worcej thought was town . Mafia killed worcej for a reason either because he has the scum on his sights or he doesnt . Shouldn't matter for us because we are killing three people and that can encompass all possibilities !

[GlitterBomb]

Worcej, I really appreciate how you laid everything out. I’m in alignment with you. But I’m super confused and hesitant about this end vote strategy. Not super confident in my understanding of it and if it’s the right approach. Will need more info if not killed!

Glitter Im going to be honest with you, you seem like a smart person, I think you are playing up this noobieness too much and its making me suspicious of you. Classic noob strat I played it myself >:) xD

Ok, then I’ll be less honest with the things that confuse me and at knee-jerk vote instead. That’s been going so well for us. :)

For real though, the concept of “end vote” is something I’ve never heard of, and was/am trying to wrap my head around. I AM a smart person, thank you very much. And I feel like this is a LOT to take in and I’m doing my damndest to keep up. And I’ve been restrained on the questions I’ve been asking! Worc was kind enough to lay some things out for me and in his first frickin sentence he used like three acronyms that I didn’t know! But I figured out the gist.

[damo666]

In short:

- You should advocate for a triple kill if you wisely recognize our only realistic chance of winning is to hit mafia today, and you believe we can overcome the coordination problem of needing to maintain a tie against hostile actors.

- You should advocate for a double kill if you also wisely recognize our only realistic chance of winning is to hit mafia today, but you are worried about the coordination problem.

- You should advocate for a single kill if your short-term risk-aversion prohibits you from seeing past your nose.

I’m going to keep hammering this home for visibility for anyone catching up and feeling overwhelmed by the complexity of the discussion here. It’s a pretty fascinating problem in the abstract, but trying to get your head around it all might be stressful when the game is riding on it.

I firmly believe this is objectively correct no matter who you think is town or mafia, and that the debate is mostly over which 2 or 3 people to kill (and secondarily whether to kill 2 safely or try for 3).

IF I am to be a kill then 3 clearly better than 2. In fact even if I'm not 3 is better than 2.

[FlaviusAetius]

Ok damo uh if we vote each other then i assume we are both going to die

You too flav, i assume we will die

And... thats a good thing that at least two of us die D2. The third one is a guranteed death into D3 so idk why you trying to create this weird coalition

[FlaviusAetius]

Worcej, I really appreciate how you laid everything out. I’m in alignment with you. But I’m super confused and hesitant about this end vote strategy. Not super confident in my understanding of it and if it’s the right approach. Will need more info if not killed!

Glitter Im going to be honest with you, you seem like a smart person, I think you are playing up this noobieness too much and its making me suspicious of you. Classic noob strat I played it myself >:) xD

Ok, then I’ll be less honest with the things that confuse me and at knee-jerk vote instead. That’s been going so well for us. :)

For real though, the concept of “end vote” is something I’ve never heard of, and was/am trying to wrap my head around. I AM a smart person, thank you very much. And I feel like this is a LOT to take in and I’m doing my damndest to keep up. And I’ve been restrained on the questions I’ve been asking! Worc was kind enough to lay some things out for me and in his first frickin sentence he used like three acronyms that I didn’t know! But I figured out the gist.

@Glitter use this;
http://mafia.peterlund.se/MafiaLingoAndAbbrevs.html

If anything isnt on that use this;
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Commonly_Used_Abbreviations

[FlaviusAetius]

I guess we haven’t endvoted yet, so it doesn’t matter yet. But sending only damo up high means that any endvote likely results in only 1 kill. Which wouldn’t be the end of the world (hit a scum, live to fight another day), but it would result in another mafia-directed kill, so prefer not to let that happen.

I almost think damo is destined to die D2, I still think he's a lockkill no matter what so maybe he is saved for D3, Will + I die today and then someone else

[FlaviusAetius]

I am worried that because me Flav and damo are so obvious people are not going to look at the other 4 here

Chaqa especially has done very little other than sheeping worcej (sorry Chaqa)

FACTS

[FlaviusAetius]

OK Im caught up, I didnt read the 40s(starting at 41 I think?) because I was actively participating during that time so no need. LMK if i missed anything im going to bed now

[damo666]

If lfischl had flipped scum would you all still be saying the same thing. Would you?

Obviously not, but did you actually think fischl was mafia? I mean he barely even talked

I had no idea but I was and still am fairly convinced both you and Will are town. That was the reasoning for my vote.

[damo666]

I am back to being convinced Eden is town.

I think the scumpair are TFB and Chaqa.

Imo a triple kill of me Flav and Will will win the game for scum SO

@Flav and @Will it is imperative that you watch closely at EOD and do anything possible to prevent this outcome. Vote for all the others if necessary.


If there if either Will or Flav is scum I take responsibility.

If both are town I don't want to hear any more nonsense about my D1 voting.