WebMafia Olympics - Game #2 - Star Trek TNG: The Republic of Q [GAME THREAD]

[Chaqa]

I don’t particularly want to kill Flavius or Glitter, or Eden.

So I guess my preferred 3 are Will, Damo, and Boat, but I think the mafia is just Will and Damo

[FlaviusAetius]

I don’t particularly want to kill Flavius or Glitter, or Eden.

So I guess my preferred 3 are Will, Damo, and Boat, but I think the mafia is just Will and Damo

Why TFB?

[GlitterBomb]

This is actually pretty wild, if you think damo messed up the day than so did Glitter

How so?

turns out damo was just wrong so NVM

Correct. I was prepared to point that out to yet another person is needed. =) color coding definitely makes it pop a bit and analyze things in a different light.

[Chaqa]

I don’t particularly want to kill Flavius or Glitter, or Eden.

So I guess my preferred 3 are Will, Damo, and Boat, but I think the mafia is just Will and Damo

Why TFB?

Well, I feel more solid on my read of Eden and Glitter and you.

[TheFlyingBoat]

I don’t particularly want to kill Flavius or Glitter, or Eden.

So I guess my preferred 3 are Will, Damo, and Boat, but I think the mafia is just Will and Damo

Why Flavius?

[FlaviusAetius]

I don’t particularly want to kill Flavius or Glitter, or Eden.

So I guess my preferred 3 are Will, Damo, and Boat, but I think the mafia is just Will and Damo

Why Flavius?

Not TFB and I having the same response xD

[FlaviusAetius]

There are 2 live mafia as you well know.

Btw you didn’t vote for any of the top 4 wagons. The only player not to do so.

This is actually pretty wild, if you think damo messed up the day than so did Glitter

My problem is that damo is shading GlitterBomb here for not voting damo + the 2 people damo saved + a flipped townie, then in other posts he angles for towncred because his actions “saved townies.” By his own reasoning he shouldn’t be attacking GlitterBomb here.

Im pretty sure he genuinely attacked Glitter here becuase it turns out he was wrong , its NAI

[President Eden]

@Eden how would we go about executing the 3-kill plan? Don’t we need a court person to make it work?

We need either:
- a three-way tie for 1st and then a tie for 2nd
- a two-way tie for 1st and then an uncontested 2nd

I’m not actually sharp on mechanically how to get there yet. The three-way tie for first seems too easy to foil.

A two-way tie for first is more stable if we have a clear third who is 2+ votes out of first. As long as the third place player is 2+ votes out of first, the top two voters can’t elevate the third place player up to the top and save themselves. That leaves them in a sort of Prisoner’s Dilemma, but there’s no mutual cooperation equivalent. They can’t vote themselves to force only one kill, they must vote the other one, but if they both vote the other they both die, and if neither of them vote the other they both die.

The main issue is coordinating the third place vote, because it has to be both too far away from 1st and 2nd to be elevated above them, but also must be far enough ahead of the rest of the competition to be displaced by last-second votes.

[President Eden]

Thinking more about it, I’m not actually sure how to achieve it with so few numbers. The gaps needed between 1/2 and 3, and 3 and the pack, are somewhat high for the number of players on board.

We probably only get to shoot two.

[FlaviusAetius]

I’m also pretty annoyed at Damo.

Not like furious but more disappointed

What about TFB's vote on lfischl?

Disconnected enough and put two messages of frustration into JT for the GT.

But in general, Boat made his votes with 2 minutes left and wanted to process 2 kills.

You intentionally waited until the last second and even admit to purposely taking the DK down to 1 kill because of TFB's vote allowing you that opportunity.

I dont get how you can be mad at damo's last mintue kills but not TFB's? It just doesnt make sense, they both took the day into their own hands, when we made it pretty clear that was how scum take the day into their hands.

IF you think last mintue voting is how mafia manipulate the day into their favor then what damo did was the best last mintue vote possible, becuase it resets the day back to homeostasis

[President Eden]

The other other issue is that we actually need consensus on virtually all of these, including our top two. And I don’t think we have it.

For example I would definitely not vote TFB over Will or Flav here. And I’ve already committed to Flav and damo over Will. So if for example Chaqa’s preferences are damo > Will > TFB > Flav, that makes it difficult to set up the right three.

And I’m not saying that to try to force a consensus either. If it doesn’t exist it doesn’t exist. I point it out more to say that the coordination problem is a little steep to overcome if the core members of the triple kill bloc aren’t even on the same page about who it should be.

[FlaviusAetius]

@Eden how would we go about executing the 3-kill plan? Don’t we need a court person to make it work?

We need either:
- a three-way tie for 1st and then a tie for 2nd
- a two-way tie for 1st and then an uncontested 2nd

I’m not actually sharp on mechanically how to get there yet. The three-way tie for first seems too easy to foil.

A two-way tie for first is more stable if we have a clear third who is 2+ votes out of first. As long as the third place player is 2+ votes out of first, the top two voters can’t elevate the third place player up to the top and save themselves. That leaves them in a sort of Prisoner’s Dilemma, but there’s no mutual cooperation equivalent. They can’t vote themselves to force only one kill, they must vote the other one, but if they both vote the other they both die, and if neither of them vote the other they both die.

The main issue is coordinating the third place vote, because it has to be both too far away from 1st and 2nd to be elevated above them, but also must be far enough ahead of the rest of the competition to be displaced by last-second votes.

We'll probably need a designated person to hold off their votes for this to work then. I propose you

[FlaviusAetius]

If lfischl had flipped scum would you all still be saying the same thing. Would you?

Obviously not, but did you actually think fischl was mafia? I mean he barely even talked

[Chaqa]

The other other issue is that we actually need consensus on virtually all of these, including our top two. And I don’t think we have it.

For example I would definitely not vote TFB over Will or Flav here. And I’ve already committed to Flav and damo over Will. So if for example Chaqa’s preferences are damo > Will > TFB > Flav, that makes it difficult to set up the right three.

And I’m not saying that to try to force a consensus either. If it doesn’t exist it doesn’t exist. I point it out more to say that the coordination problem is a little steep to overcome if the core members of the triple kill bloc aren’t even on the same page about who it should be.

So long as Damo and Will are in the 3, I’m willing to compromise on Flavius. I’m a pragmatist more than anything and I know I’m town and suspect you are as well, I could be wrong on Flav. I was last gam.

[President Eden]

@Eden how would we go about executing the 3-kill plan? Don’t we need a court person to make it work?

We need either:
- a three-way tie for 1st and then a tie for 2nd
- a two-way tie for 1st and then an uncontested 2nd

I’m not actually sharp on mechanically how to get there yet. The three-way tie for first seems too easy to foil.

A two-way tie for first is more stable if we have a clear third who is 2+ votes out of first. As long as the third place player is 2+ votes out of first, the top two voters can’t elevate the third place player up to the top and save themselves. That leaves them in a sort of Prisoner’s Dilemma, but there’s no mutual cooperation equivalent. They can’t vote themselves to force only one kill, they must vote the other one, but if they both vote the other they both die, and if neither of them vote the other they both die.

The main issue is coordinating the third place vote, because it has to be both too far away from 1st and 2nd to be elevated above them, but also must be far enough ahead of the rest of the competition to be displaced by last-second votes.

We’ll probably need a designated person to hold off their votes for this to work then. I propose you

I appreciate the vote of confidence, but I believe I’ve committed too much already.

The other other issue is that we actually need consensus on virtually all of these, including our top two. And I don’t think we have it.

For example I would definitely not vote TFB over Will or Flav here. And I’ve already committed to Flav and damo over Will. So if for example Chaqa’s preferences are damo > Will > TFB > Flav, that makes it difficult to set up the right three.

And I’m not saying that to try to force a consensus either. If it doesn’t exist it doesn’t exist. I point it out more to say that the coordination problem is a little steep to overcome if the core members of the triple kill bloc aren’t even on the same page about who it should be.

So long as Damo and Will are in the 3, I’m willing to compromise on Flavius. I’m a pragmatist more than anything and I know I’m town and suspect you are as well, I could be wrong on Flav. I was last gam.

That seems agreeable to me.

[FlaviusAetius]

Yea so as I teased a moment ago, damo’s play only makes sense from scum perspective IMO.

Being confident in your townreads is good enough reason to stop the triple kill, because you’re not actually depriving town of a town-directed kill by slowing things down to 2 kills instead of 3. But it’s not good enough reason to derail the double kill because it takes away our ability to safely double kill next turn and possibly engineers our demise if the mafia figure out how to force a double kill next phase.

I firmly believe town damo would have worked that out and chosen one of two townreads between Will and Flav to save. It’s just too much of a selfish hero play for town damo IMO. And it perfectly aligns with scum incentives if you’re already not long for this world.

Real questions to me are:
(1) should we not simply double kill tomorrow anyway despite the risk? I am that confident damo is scum here.
(2) does scum damo do that if his partner is also one of Flav or Will?

To 1, I think we're forced into the double kill regardless because scum have an easy out to accomplish it.

To 2 - yeah, I think scum damo would do this to save Flav or Will because losing his partner here would be disastrous.

This makes no sense, damo is defiently a lock kill for D3 massacre, dont you think Will and I are as well?

[President Eden]

It’s probably worth thinking about who should be the top 2 and who should be the #3. Different defection risks suggest different orders.

For example, damo and Will are most likely to advocate for a single kill, so putting them top 2 and at least 2 ahead of anyone else prevents that possibility. Flav is on board with the triple kill but disagrees with just killing/damo/Will/Flav, so as a defection risk he would only potentially force a tie in 2nd place, giving us only a double kill, which is still a good outcome.

[FlaviusAetius]

If lfischl had flipped scum would you all still be saying the same thing. Would you?

Well no, because you would presumably not railroad your teammate and deprive yourself of two miskills.

lfischl being town is kind of a huge detail to brush over there lol.

What kind of town was fischl tho? A big fat question mark that will never be answered, not someone I think anyone would want IMO

[President Eden]

I want to give Glitter some time to process all this and give her thoughts. This situation is extremely complex for an ordinary mafia game, and we’ll need her to be on board with any triple kill planning.

[FlaviusAetius]

It’s probably worth thinking about who should be the top 2 and who should be the #3. Different defection risks suggest different orders.

For example, damo and Will are most likely to advocate for a single kill, so putting them top 2 and at least 2 ahead of anyone else prevents that possibility. Flav is on board with the triple kill but disagrees with just killing/damo/Will/Flav, so as a defection risk he would only potentially force a tie in 2nd place, giving us only a double kill, which is still a good outcome.

Why do you really really want just damo, Will & me in this combo? Dont you think we should look outside the trio, for one of those kills?