WebMafia Olympics - Game #2 - Star Trek TNG: The Republic of Q [GAME THREAD]

[FlaviusAetius]

So we can engineer a draw with an all player tie....

....if there is a a nine-way tie for first, everyone will die.

##CALL GM

In case of an 9 player tie, is it a draw?

Also hear me out because this is going to sound crazy, what if we do an 8 player draw in votes and kill everyone except one? The odds of a town victory are greatly improved rather than playing normally

Im PRETTY sure this is the first mention of this idea, I DONT think @Eden you are counted in this because Will is who came up with it first not you vocal proponent doesnt count

[FlaviusAetius]

Second

##vote will

Yes I know that I cannot take this back.

On reread theres just something about this that doesnt make sense

The #1 priority as scum is to avoid bringing unnecessary attention to yourself, thats like incredibly important with this setup. And yet worcej, who mind you is not stupid, does the exact opposite of this. Assuming worcej is playing to win, I can only assume 1 of 3 things

A. Worcej just had a terrible opening and flubbed (unlikely)
B. He is mafia trying to be townread off WIFOM that he would never do this as mafia
C. He is town trying to be townread off WIFOM that he would never do this as mafia

I find in this game that with how aware worcej seems to be about needing to conserve miskills, that C is very unlikely, as it is risky and if C is the correct option, directly opposes what he seems to be most concerned about in needing to hit scum

I stated why I think A is unlikely, worcej I think is unlikely to do something like this

Thus I am left with B being the most likely option

##VOTE WORCEJ

And REMEMBER he said that D1 of a previous mafia olympics got messed up, I think he would try to be more cautious this setup not less...

[FlaviusAetius]

Glitter who are your top scumreads?

My initial scum gut check is screaming Flavius. Many interesting points have been made on them.

But I’m also cautious and skeptical of the people who’ve been friendly. Worcej, Will…. But that’s just because I trust nobody.

PresidentEden talks a lot. Other don’t talk much at all. Perplexed by Chaqa and Damo.

Trust NO ONE, my policy is that anything anyone says can make them mafia and then go from there, whoever is most mafia has almost nothing I can find that redeems them

[FlaviusAetius]

On reread theres just something about this that doesnt make sense

The #1 priority as scum is to avoid bringing unnecessary attention to yourself, thats like incredibly important with this setup. And yet worcej, who mind you is not stupid, does the exact opposite of this. Assuming worcej is playing to win, I can only assume 1 of 3 things

A. Worcej just had a terrible opening and flubbed (unlikely)
B. He is mafia trying to be townread off WIFOM that he would never do this as mafia
C. He is town trying to be townread off WIFOM that he would never do this as mafia

I find in this game that with how aware worcej seems to be about needing to conserve miskills, that C is very unlikely, as it is risky and if C is the correct option, directly opposes what he seems to be most concerned about in needing to hit scum

I stated why I think A is unlikely, worcej I think is unlikely to do something like this

Thus I am left with B being the most likely option

##VOTE WORCEJ

”Scum wouldn’t bring unnecessary attention to themselves yet worcej did so he must be scum.”

Very disingenuous interpretation

FACTS, btw one of the main reasons you are voting worcej is one of the main reasons I VOTED for him, yet when I said it you said I was crazy , what's changed? WHY did you come around by saying everything I have already said?

[FlaviusAetius]

And I am incredibly loose when I am a VT - IDGAF about my life so I play accordingly and get townread for it normally.

Again, your logic in thinking I am scum is shit and you just OMGUS’ed me to help yourself now.

nah people who know about their meta I dont trust not one BIT for them not to manipulate it when they are mafia
However...the points you are making against Will...I agree with

[FlaviusAetius]

To avoid any further confusion

TOWN
Glitter
FlyingBoat

NULL
Lfischl
Chaqa
Damo

SCUM
Eden
Worc
Flavius

Ordered within groups

I think I forgot him because I assumed there were only 9 players. Plus eden saying its a 2/9 chance of hitting mafia if we do it random threw me off because i didnt realize he was excluding himself

Explain why you voted me first before Flavius.

Upon reread I just found it incredibly strange the way you did all of that

Also if I was only voting you to save myself, why would I not stay consistent to this reads list while also potentially having you vote with my on Flavius?
I think it was you who asked me to join you on Flavius.

You YOURSELF said this list was interchangeable, I dont see how you can have any loyalty to the list

[FlaviusAetius]

I will also admit I am growing disappointed in lack of content from damo, fisch, glitter, and Chaqa at this point.

We’re past the 24 hour mark everyone. Do something.

I’m a little at a loss as what to do. I’ve been thinking about the game for a bit and so far I’m kinda not feeling much tbh.

I kinda don’t like Will or Flav but it’s all vibes

???
You are crazy for this, you have thought about this game a bunch but you only got vibes so far? That makes no sense

[FlaviusAetius]

Underlined: yes but not for the reason you think. It was not because it was a vote on me that I find it suspicious but rather a brash vote in general.

Bold: Do you not remember me being scum like two games ago where I lurked all game and posted like three times a phase? I mustnt be scum!

But in all seriousness this is implying you are unable to change how you play, and with games like these with unique mechanics, it is inevitable our gameplay will alter from our norm

Commentary on bold: “lurking” and “high volume” are not meta based things to get scummed for. It’s the actions/activity of the game that matters to me.

I 100% think an excited entry by you is more scum indicative because Jamie sent the role PMs out many hours before the game and you strike me as the impatient player who is ready to launch when you get an exciting role.

Didnt people literally scum me in that game for lurking?

Also yes I understand where you are coming from with the reasoning of my first post. I just find someone who thinks that scum will pounce on a mistake unlikely to throw two votes right away

Yes we did, I dont scumread for doing that idk what worcej is talking about, but his takedown of your post makes so much sense to me, I dont like that its coming from him, but he is clearly trying to get everyone to cast a lot of votes to make his votes not seem so bad...NGL you arent making me not scumread you rn

[FlaviusAetius]

But hey, you still scum him right? Just vote him now too. 2 people need to die Will!

Scum him but not as much as you rn

Considering nothing really changed between your read list and your reread, I think you’re just caught justifying a shit move here.

At least I admittedly said my vote on you was bad, but the other 2 are solidly entrenched in reasons.

I look forward to the GT for this game - I think the other 6 town players should be admonished for being so cautious and scared to do something here.

AGREED this is a low content game and D1, and I dont like it

[FlaviusAetius]

What do you mean other 6 town players? Assuming you know yourself to be town, that would be other 7 players?

I swear this player count thing is weird

9 players total, 7 town, 6 town besides worcej if he considers himself to be town

[FlaviusAetius]

What do you mean other 6 town players? Assuming you know yourself to be town, that would be other 7 players?

I swear this player count thing is weird

I am town dingly-dork.

9 players, 2 scum, 6 other people are my teammates.

I thought there were 10 players

Nah no way you just said this

[FlaviusAetius]

....if there is a a nine-way tie for first, everyone will die.

##CALL GM

In case of an 9 player tie, is it a draw?

Also hear me out because this is going to sound crazy, what if we do an 8 player draw in votes and kill everyone except one? The odds of a town victory are greatly improved rather than playing normally

Im PRETTY sure this is the first mention of this idea, I DONT think @Eden you are counted in this because Will is who came up with it first not you vocal proponent doesnt count

Will is NOT the first person to come up with this idea it was CHAQA

[worcej]

Here's a great strategy to play as mafia, they are going to have one person whose open and talking and one person whose semi lurking ( impossible ) to fully lurk in this small game, right ?

So probably a skater everyone should reserve one vote for a skater, one vote for a yapper, and then the third vote for whoever

I mean like theoretically I think this makes sense for a 2 mafia setup in a world where it's single day and there is the ability to switch votes. You have the open wolfer and the deep threat, a classic duo. But as explained, I think this setup changes the calculus of the mafia team to one of extreme risk aversion and wanting us to make the make first mistake before they seize upon it if that makes sense. Because where town can unvote and you have the classic deadline flashes and can track wagonomics it makes much more sense for the mafia to play a more active role in controlling the pace and pushes of wagons.

I think the exact opposite of you I think this setup actually makes poeple want to play a more active role in the game to shape the course and ensure the wagons dont get out of hand, with two kills D1's that is an important factor to consider

Can I just say that thinking people would play more of an active role but thinking I am scummy/bad/whatever for placing early votes, which is being more active, is ironic and inconsistent logic.

[worcej]

I think Eden is thinking exactly what I am; because worcej has voted so early, he is going to be arguing that Eden & Will are mafia pretty much no matter what they do or say. He can practically be ignored for them, and he'd rather focus his attention to make sure others don't follow his folly

Yes and no. I think the point that worcej and I made separately is that this is going to be more about who you choose to save among the town more than anything. While there is no going back on Eden and Will and why I would have preferred waiting, I think worcej does have the flexibility to act when you accept his premise. Don't have to like it to see the coherence.

I initially thought there were only three votes you could cast max , I think voting early is FINE, evne in a 3 vote setup, but so many votes before others have even had a chance to vote or speak ? Now thats just not right

Still no why it isn’t “right”

[worcej]

Talking about meta reasons why worcej is acting sus here, I generally think worcej is a smart fellow, in fact when I was scum in my last mafia game I took him out for that reason, he isn't acting very smart here, not good

Not only did he not read the setup correctly regarding MK's he ALSO parked two votes early on little evidence

You fearkilled worc early? Damn has the meta changed that much while I was gone?!?!? I suppose me, durga, snowy, and kgray being gone has changed things Hasn't ghug been around though? I know he isn't as good as me, but he's still alright

Ok, more seriously, despite having some fun over beer following a job interview, I think you're oversussing worcej here. I think the miscount on MKs and the parked votes are both NAI to town-reading honestly.

Yea but multiple people told him it was a bad idea and he's doubled down on those two mistakes just uncharacteristic I would say. AND these werent just early votes these were unjustified early votes, the case has yet to be made on them

I “doubled down” by voting for you after you voted me with the awful reasoning that has gotten 3 other votes on you lol

[worcej]

##vote will

Yes I know that I cannot take this back.

On reread theres just something about this that doesnt make sense

The #1 priority as scum is to avoid bringing unnecessary attention to yourself, thats like incredibly important with this setup. And yet worcej, who mind you is not stupid, does the exact opposite of this. Assuming worcej is playing to win, I can only assume 1 of 3 things

A. Worcej just had a terrible opening and flubbed (unlikely)
B. He is mafia trying to be townread off WIFOM that he would never do this as mafia
C. He is town trying to be townread off WIFOM that he would never do this as mafia

I find in this game that with how aware worcej seems to be about needing to conserve miskills, that C is very unlikely, as it is risky and if C is the correct option, directly opposes what he seems to be most concerned about in needing to hit scum

I stated why I think A is unlikely, worcej I think is unlikely to do something like this

Thus I am left with B being the most likely option

##VOTE WORCEJ

And REMEMBER he said that D1 of a previous mafia olympics got messed up, I think he would try to be more cautious this setup not less...

Did you ever think to ask me why I thought D1 was messed up?

You just grabbed at my statement and applied your own judgement of my actions (that I messed up this D1) and apparently voted for me.

[worcej]

”Scum wouldn’t bring unnecessary attention to themselves yet worcej did so he must be scum.”

Very disingenuous interpretation

FACTS, btw one of the main reasons you are voting worcej is one of the main reasons I VOTED for him, yet when I said it you said I was crazy , what's changed? WHY did you come around by saying everything I have already said?

So is the why for why you voted me what Will said?

I think I have asked you 10+ times to explain your vote and for the love of god you still haven’t explained it.

[FlaviusAetius]

Top = most town, Bottom = least town

Worc

People often misconstrue behavior they don't like as scummy. None of the things people don't like seem scummy to me and I think his reaction to Eden gave very townie vibes. Serious engagement with mechs, was wrong about plenty, adjusted to being wrong and has been genuine in applying pressure with original reads.

Glitter

I am team Mrs. Bomb all the way. Is it possible I am the biggest mark in the history of marks of the classic newbie razzle dazzle? Possible, but idk I just feel like the vibes are right here. This is my least confident read but until given reason to think otherwise I feel positive vibes.

Eden

I think Eden tried to grapple with the crux of the game early in a way that he thought would be good for the town. He tried to get his system going and committed to it, held strong against attack for a while before finally backing down after being explained to why it was anti-town in this highly particular context. Genuine and novel engagement with the game makes me think Eden is town. He is a good player and has done things he could do as either alignment, but I have caught him before and I think for now he isn't throwing up anything highly sus to me. His reticence to OMGUS worcej wins him a lot of points in my book.

-------- My feel good bar

Will

Don't know Will and he had made some posts early which seemed town aligned, but his handling of Flav v Worc rubs me the wrong way. Still slightly lean town, but not as confident as I was early yesterday.

Lfischl

No clue if lfischl has changed since I've been gone. While he is more active than I am used to, he is still glaringly inactive and not contributing a whole ton. He is the definition of true random

Chaqa

I expect more from Chaqa. I am slightly worried about his Eden vote. I do think it was probably just a mistake and lolzy play because Chaqa and Eden things but like at the same time it is so easy for Chaqa to do so and hope to take out Eden early while throwing his hands up and saying awwww shucks guys, big oooopsie daisies here!

I would be much more favorable and be willing to chalk it up to town!Chaqa being goofy if he were contributing useful thoughts like I know he can.

---------------- Feel bad line

Damo

Damo is one of the best players in the game before. I've played with him heavily in both town and mafia games before on his side and he is a delight. Where the hell is that damo now? He throws out one question which reeks of being a setup for either a throwaway double wagon on two of the lowest activity townspeople he can find at the deadline or a runup of a wagon on a skilled town player (which I fear might be Eden) in order to get a huge miskill on a huge town asset.

I don't think damo+lfischl is a team unless the opening post was a direct warning/coaching for lfischl but I highly doubt damo would take that risk.

Based on my priors, odds are lfischl just doesn't see it and goes inactive and damo would have to justify running up inactive wagons other than lfischl, unless damo just didn't give a shit and was open to bussing him, figuring he'd have to hard carry anyways. And while that is theoretically possible, damo doesn't seem like the kind of guy to go that hard that fast.

Flavius

Off the bat seems to be the scummiest person around right now. If manufactured engagement was a person it would be Flavius. I posted this earlier on the reread, but I encourage y'all to go back and look yourselves. So much of his posting was just regurgitating that which has already been said followed by a bad push.

I think you make an excellent point about Chaqa and I have seen much that changes my thoughts on him either
Damo & Fischl are both AFK from the game I dont see why you view them as different
##vote will Nothing is redeeming him for me anymore, nothing

ehhh I'd like to see more from Glitter ngl what I've seen so far though is good I guess
You should take a reread on Worcej I think EVERYTHING you say about Eden is spot on, and worcej has done the exact opposite

[Chaqa]

Im being gaslit
4. Persistent Votes:
Once you have voted for someone, your vote stays on them for the rest of the current Day phase, but as per (3) you can add your vote to other wagons too. Voting "unvote" is not allowed.

You are wrong here worcej

LOLOLOLOL

That (3) is referring to rule 3 dude.

Ok well I guess we are both wrong. Early voting still means you cant undo your vote and it parks it, making you have to advocate for that person. HOWEVER, its true you dont just have three votes TOTAL

Reading this exchange had me dying

[FlaviusAetius]

You die is cast and I am trolling you because I am having fun doing it.

But I do think you're vote on me was shit and the cart (vote) was before the horse (good explanation) in your efforts to do so.

You didn't explain a change in reads of why I was more scummy than Flavius in any way and jumped to me when you made such an effort to provide an organized list by scummyness.

In full honesty worcej i dont really think my reasoning was bad. Call me dumb but i dont care

Also I dont understand why you put so much weight into a reads list i made early on. Early reads lists typically change a lot later in the game. And sure enough after rereading it did change. It should not be taken as gospel

Okay dummy.

#stillloveyouanyways

It didnt change for you though? Not only that when pressured on it and your vote you insisted that you had to be loyal to the list