WebMafia Olympics - Game #2 - Star Trek TNG: The Republic of Q [GAME THREAD]

[FlaviusAetius]

Can you explain why it means nothing? IMO the fact it can't be taken back makes it a credible threat. Unless you're arguing the wanton nature of it makes it not mean anything?

I think Eden is thinking exactly what I am; because worcej has voted so early, he is going to be arguing that Eden & Will are mafia pretty much no matter what they do or say. He can practically be ignored for them, and he'd rather focus his attention to make sure others don't follow his folly

I disagree with this take, should worcejs posts be completely disregarded just due to a misplay?

Eden Flav scum team would be funny

Who said they should be DISREGARDED? The people he voted for cant unconvince him to vote for them, his concerns about them will always be viewed as secondary, thats just a fact

[FlaviusAetius]

So we can engineer a draw with an all player tie....

....if there is a a nine-way tie for first, everyone will die.

##CALL GM

In case of an 9 player tie, is it a draw?

Also hear me out because this is going to sound crazy, what if we do an 8 player draw in votes and kill everyone except one? The odds of a town victory are greatly improved rather than playing normally

Although this would be funny it kinda ruins the spirit of the setup so no and Im pretty sure thats already ruined so rip

[TheFlyingBoat]

" awfully concerned about mechs"
???
That would mean worcej talked about mechs for hours not...like three posts

Flavius is gonna get on my nerves. I don’t want to explain my word choice every sentence

?? word choice is everything , we dont have a lot to go off of, as worcej mentioned VCA isnt really going to be a thing , so everything ANYONE says or does HAS to be looked at

Strong disagree. The focus just shifts from wagons started and who was targeted to an even heavier focus on who was saved, when, and why.

[FlaviusAetius]

The thing about Flav is that his takes are so bogus and easy to debunk that it would make one think he is town because of how inconsistent it is but like I’m gonna wifom and say he’s scum

bro my takes are not bogus I am trying my best out here, if something is a little off just tell me I'll look into it and sometimes you'll be right! Sometimes I will be! Thats just how this works its a back and forth

[FlaviusAetius]

Flavius is gonna get on my nerves. I don’t want to explain my word choice every sentence

?? word choice is everything , we dont have a lot to go off of, as worcej mentioned VCA isnt really going to be a thing , so everything ANYONE says or does HAS to be looked at

Strong disagree. The focus just shifts from wagons started and who was targeted to an even heavier focus on who was saved, when, and why.

Yea that is VCA, but that isnt going to work if we might only have one day of it

[FlaviusAetius]

Lol jk but it would be funny

So far there’s at leastone within Flav Eden Worc and likely 1 in the rest.

TOWN

Glitter
FlyingBoat
Lfischl
Damo
Eden
Worc
Flavius

SCUM

Keep in mind outside of the italicized and lfisch the others are pretty interchangeable and are based purely on vibes

I just noticed why did you not include Chaqa? Like if you didnt include fischl makes sense man is AFK, but Chaqa? Why ?

[FlaviusAetius]

The thing about Flav is that his takes are so bogus and easy to debunk that it would make one think he is town because of how inconsistent it is but like I’m gonna wifom and say he’s scum

FWIW, last game he very openly and explicitly leaned into this exact assumption as scum. It’s why I’m 50:50 on just voting him now despite my principles…

I didnt do that though, I just did the normal stuff I always do, all I did was just not buddy Jamie

[FlaviusAetius]

That’s not the same thing at all lol. In the context of your plan, mafia had two counterplays:

1) Roll with it if it looks like one of their own would be selected. They may commit before some townies in that case, but they still won’t commit until they start seeing townies commit first.
2) Wait as long as possible to commit if it looks like a townie would be selected. Let the votes fall where they will, and then engineer a day where a lot of townies die and they win. It’s strictly optimal for them to wait—if everyone else goes first they win; if others are hesitant, the plan loses consensus and falls apart and they don’t lose.

That’s very different from a random mafia player dropping a vote here or there to push their agenda

Number 2 is why I am very against waiting to drop votes and just doing the hypo thing.

Yes, I get that my votes can still be used by scum to accomplish an agenda, but they have to actually have to make cases to justify the vote pattern to get their desired outcome

The flip side is that scum actually benefit from dropping votes on townies early because there aren’t real consequences for it. A random vote on a townie can’t come back to bite them in quite the same way it might for a townie, because if it “accidentally” miskills the townie, that advances scum agenda. It enables them to have a more static view of the game because “oops, can’t change my vote for X, I guess I better push them.” Or if they need to pivot, “sorry guys, I know I voted Y earlier but I think we really should do X instead.”

None of that is applicable to Will’s specific plan of course, but that’s a unique situation anyway.

I think thats the exact problem with it and I dont see anyone else doing that but a mafia who would lay down a bunch of votes early on

[FlaviusAetius]

Lol jk but it would be funny

So far there’s at leastone within Flav Eden Worc and likely 1 in the rest.

TOWN

Glitter
FlyingBoat
Lfischl
Damo
Eden
Worc
Flavius

SCUM

Keep in mind outside of the italicized and lfisch the others are pretty interchangeable and are based purely on vibes

I'm sorry, but having seven people listed as town at this stage is either laughably optimistic or purposefully broad.

Like, how the hell, after 9 pages, are you feeling that way?

Something’s not quite right here.

Will treats lfischl as basically blank:

worcej is the obviously correct Designated Survivor here.

No lol

I mean full transparency if people are actually doing this then we should do fisch since his chance of being scum is just literally 2/7 and without any outside bias from us to decide what his alignment might be

But he’s third most townie on the rankings?

That implies at least a scumlean on damo and Chaqa on top of his assertion that at least one of me/worc/Flav is mafia.

Seems… broad? (If I may steal my alter ego’s homework.) And not readily apparent from the way Will is actually talking about the players.

naked lists are useless its WIFOM, there is nothing it can tell us because I Im pretty sure he even said most of the ppl on that list are just interchangeable

[FlaviusAetius]

To avoid any further confusion

TOWN
Glitter
FlyingBoat

NULL
Lfischl
Damo

SCUM
Eden
Worc
Flavius

Ordered within groups

STILL no Chaqa?

[FlaviusAetius]

To avoid any further confusion

TOWN
Glitter
FlyingBoat

NULL
Lfischl
Chaqa
Damo

SCUM
Eden
Worc
Flavius

Ordered within groups

I think I forgot him because I assumed there were only 9 players. Plus eden saying its a 2/9 chance of hitting mafia if we do it random threw me off because i didnt realize he was excluding himself

NGL Im just not buying this explanation, if you thoguth there were only 7 people then not including yourself solves that problem so that means you actually thought there were eight people, not 7...

[FlaviusAetius]

I think we should be cautious about voting rather than gung ho. So I don't like worcej's early votes but I don't scum him for it.

Agreed

Eden's soft voting suggestion (now thankfully abandoned) I think came from a town pov.

Agreed

Yes Chaqa you fucked up!

Agreed

I suspect at least one mafia yet to post.

Agreed, and as mentioned back before most people had posted, I think scum is likely to be more careful here than in normal games due to the double day and no takesies-backsies on votes. They will try to find wagons on town started by town and push them to completion, which is why I thought the manipulatable and untracked soft-votes without the bot was dangerous and why early votes are a little worrying (though as mentioned don't think worcej is scum for it)

commentary in bold

I dont think you should scumread him for it either, BUT it should defiently be a feather in his cap towards being more mafia than not

[FlaviusAetius]

Not having a bot is gonna be cheeks lol.

That’s all I got for now

I actually think it might be better there's too much fake analysis that occurs in these games, we need more raw takes

ok been seeing this random bolding in a few comments from flav, is this one of those enhanced readability things that was popular pop science a long time ago or is there something more to it that I don't know since I've never played with him?

just trying to add emphasis, I type how I talk so Im trying to emphasize the same things that the voice in my head is, I have gone through a few itterations but the bolding is the least distracting to those who dont want it

[damo666]

Apologies for going AWOL. Unexpectedly spent all night at A&E. Have to catch up from page 10.

[FlaviusAetius]

I don't like this take only because you're implying we have free time here to employ VCA.

We have 2 miskills boss - you don't have the luxury to just toss one out.

I am pretty sure this is false, we have 9 people at the start, two miskills brings us down to 7, mafia kill one, now its 6. 4 town vs 2 mafia we still can win the game. Even THREE miskills D1 with that scenario Jamie pointed wouldnt mean gameover

I do think it is weird that you've made multiple posts and made it thus far in your reread and are opting to retread mechanical discussions that have already happened in addition to other high fluff, low engagement posts. Like this is a point I literally already made. Pretty sus to me and reeks of fake engagement

I like to respond to as much as I can and pretty much everything so if you think is me talking about fluff, well guess what so was everyone else. But ACTUALLY this is one of the reasons I am viewing worcej as mafia so not fluff after all

[FlaviusAetius]

Apologies for going AWOL. Unexpectedly spent all night at A&E. Have to catch up from page 10.

hey mee too thats where I started there isnt actually a lot of pages which I find kind of...shocking

[FlaviusAetius]

Not yet lol that was a joke. I disagree with Eden and think that without the bot, the soft vote mechanic is probably mafia-sided, but I don't think based on his reasoning and wording that it was scummy but rather him just being dumb. Open to having my mind changed by you that it was scummy or by Eden that he's right, but for me, I think town is going to be active early while scum plays a little apprehensive during D1 of a double day, before pushing onto town-generated wagons on town in the mid-to-end of D1.

Here's a great strategy to play as mafia, they are going to have one person whose open and talking and one person whose semi lurking ( impossible ) to fully lurk in this small game, right ?

So probably a skater everyone should reserve one vote for a skater, one vote for a yapper, and then the third vote for whoever

I mean like theoretically I think this makes sense for a 2 mafia setup in a world where it's single day and there is the ability to switch votes. You have the open wolfer and the deep threat, a classic duo. But as explained, I think this setup changes the calculus of the mafia team to one of extreme risk aversion and wanting us to make the make first mistake before they seize upon it if that makes sense. Because where town can unvote and you have the classic deadline flashes and can track wagonomics it makes much more sense for the mafia to play a more active role in controlling the pace and pushes of wagons.

I think the exact opposite of you I think this setup actually makes poeple want to play a more active role in the game to shape the course and ensure the wagons dont get out of hand, with two kills D1's that is an important factor to consider

[FlaviusAetius]

Can you explain why it means nothing? IMO the fact it can't be taken back makes it a credible threat. Unless you're arguing the wanton nature of it makes it not mean anything?

I think Eden is thinking exactly what I am; because worcej has voted so early, he is going to be arguing that Eden & Will are mafia pretty much no matter what they do or say. He can practically be ignored for them, and he'd rather focus his attention to make sure others don't follow his folly

Yes and no. I think the point that worcej and I made separately is that this is going to be more about who you choose to save among the town more than anything. While there is no going back on Eden and Will and why I would have preferred waiting, I think worcej does have the flexibility to act when you accept his premise. Don't have to like it to see the coherence.

I initially thought there were only three votes you could cast max , I think voting early is FINE, evne in a 3 vote setup, but so many votes before others have even had a chance to vote or speak ? Now thats just not right

[FlaviusAetius]

Talking about meta reasons why worcej is acting sus here, I generally think worcej is a smart fellow, in fact when I was scum in my last mafia game I took him out for that reason, he isn't acting very smart here, not good

Not only did he not read the setup correctly regarding MK's he ALSO parked two votes early on little evidence

You fearkilled worc early? Damn has the meta changed that much while I was gone?!?!? I suppose me, durga, snowy, and kgray being gone has changed things Hasn't ghug been around though? I know he isn't as good as me, but he's still alright

Ok, more seriously, despite having some fun over beer following a job interview, I think you're oversussing worcej here. I think the miscount on MKs and the parked votes are both NAI to town-reading honestly.

Yea but multiple people told him it was a bad idea and he's doubled down on those two mistakes just uncharacteristic I would say. AND these werent just early votes these were unjustified early votes, the case has yet to be made on them

[FlaviusAetius]

It should probably also allay suspicions that the plan is scum motivated to point out that the two most vocal proponents, myself and Will, cannot be the designated survivors ourselves thanks to worcej lol.

So, you know, there’s that.

nah its def town motivated so I still think its against the spirit of the game so I dont support it