M 1029: The webMafia Olympics game 1 SPY VS SPY

[Bonatogether]

##VOTE Yoyoyozo

I think this slot has a greater than 22% chance of being mafia based on some other players being slightly more than 78% likely to be be town.

bozo! bozo! bozo!

[Bonatogether]

Yea, I've been struggling to avoid the following when talking about mech:

• Implying that "town" does not include me

• Implying that town can only win as town

• Implying that town can only after being converted

• Implying that the best move for current town players is necessarily the one that gives the town team the best chance of winning

• Implying that I expect to be converted

• Implying that I don't expect to be converted

• Implying that I don't want to be converted

• Implying that town needs to "choose a maf team to side with"

• Failing to distinguish between the town team, town players, and players who are currently town

I don't doubt that I've probably failed at several of these things already.

It just feels like your goal is for starting towns to win and not the town team to win and imo if you are town your goal should be for the town team to win

My goal is to win.
Getting converted to a maf team that wins is equally as acceptable as winning with the town team.

play to wincon

[Col7by]

Just got back from a work event but really didn’t want to vote someone out there thinks it puts us town in a really bad position. I would say one of the scum was pushing for a vote out there because that’s better for them here. Only reason it wouldn’t be is because they have a slightly higher chance of picking the other mafia on recruit but that’s not worth the no kill like killing for us wasn’t worth it.

[Col7by]

I think brain put their neck on the line big time to have been a scum player there but I question ghug switching off the no-kill. I know it was dying but why stay on it and just dip for a random person (I’ll read your posts again to see if there is reasoning for dip). It’s nice getting back from missing a few hours and not have 10 pages to go through so maybe I can analyze a bit more now

[Col7by]

I like HB more on reread of eod. Bozo feels like they’re piggy backing to look good but no real stances there. Hard to say for anyone since there is no alliances as scum but to yourself so hard to read anyone and gather much for VCA. I think the focus should be no-kill vs kill and why people thought that way.

[Hamilton Brian]

It's not like one miskill is any better than any other one right now.

And we have two camps: no-kill is bad/no-kill is optimal. I feel like a heel sitting on the latter all day just to then fuck right in and make a fool of myself. Again.

[Hamilton Brian]

I think towards EoN, before spies get a chance to revert their recruitment orders, we ...

Well, shit, we can just do it early on D2.

Make a list of most likely to be recruited, then create a pool of daykills based on that.

[brainbomb]

Haze ISO from their only town game on webdip is a good read.

http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g=80&part=Day%201&user=Haze%20with%20a%20Z

Case coming soon

[ghug]

Bozo seems cool, trying to solve, not being dumb, seems like town, maybe most town towny. Most importantly since there are no connections to draw between players rn is that he feels right on brand.

Bozo has explicitly stated he's not trying to solve. The fuck are you talking about?

[ghug]

You can thank me but I really screwed town. Again. Mr. Fucking Impetuous.

Killing me would have been the same result but then I'd also be dead, so there's that.

[brainbomb]

The Sound of Settling
M80 compared to M1029

First the good comparing factors:
Haze conversational postings and sharing stories from their life is evident in this game and in m80.

M80 is a great game by Haze; theyre fun they have personality and they really get into a groove.

Unfortunately the game were playing is M1029 not M80. And in M1029 we see Haze in a different way.

The first defense here is that everyone is playing like shit; everyone is different and everything operates here in a different way. Town has different ways to play as we saw day 1, even differing in whether to kill or not to kill was a viable option.

Haze wanted to kill day 1, they just never made it clear who they wanted to kill or provided any clear reasons why.

So lets talk about how Haze played as Town in M80 so we can establish that M1029 is marginally different in ways that define Haze as town.

M80 Haze opens the game excited, talks with everyone around. Asks numerous questions and offers opinions on the game.
-Has a dialogue with kak telling them their posts are hard to read
-Laments on the ability to save drafts
-Banters with bona quite a bit
-Banters with ghug quite a bit
-They stay active; relevant and invested for first 30 pages and form reads

Examples:

bona/kak/brain town

you could be wolf ig. same with ghug. maybe jamie or doma for the other. I don't really know

-Challeneges worcej, eden and jamie
-Talks to ghug a ton
-Talks to eden a ton
-Has poe and group of folks they dont want to vote

im just gonna iso bozo and d person cause i cant remember them at all. dont really wanna vote eden today though.

-Present for eod and places a meaningful vote on bozo.

——

By comparison im not seeing much here that screams town in our present game


haze town meta seems to be probative rather than settling. Proactive and not reactive. They appear to want answers rather than wanting to settle for just anything

And yet in this game; haze settled for ghug for his no kill vote, settles on a townread on dip which they then revoke once dips name gets mentioned enough. Then settles for voting for me when their push on yoyo is given up on after fairly minimal effort.

The next part of this is difficult to articulate but it seems to me that haze came back to life only moments after I mentioned their name as being scummy and voted them.

Then suddenly a flurry of posts and catchup happens within a few posts of me applying pressure.

The excuse given is that they got a new laptop and are able to now play and enjoy the game.

However later in the phase; as the phase is coming closer to an end; they claim their new laptop is broken which seems to signal theyre gonna be gone again. And then they are. If the laptop exists and is broken that really sucks and would be a pain in the ass to deal with.

I suspect the story is true but regardless of if the laptop exists: any evidence whatsoever of their town meta is scarcely evident at best

The scummiest posts in my mind are not so
Much their scumreads - which are opportunistic - its their backing away from them.

unvote

I’ve decided that I’m not sure if it is ghug anymore after page 7. This being said idk who to change my vote to rn tbh

—-

vote yogo I kinda think your idea was you being the spy person

—-

Also brain, I know I’m not great at reading people but there is also no way I’d know you are moth tbh if you hadn’t said something.

—-/

Stopping for a moment but the above is pretty not true. This player is good at reading people so they are likely making an excuse for themself. The read on yoyo is so milquetoast that even Haze cant stand how bad their own push is for more than a half an hour.

Although yes I did probably tr you because you spoke early but also because you spoke around the same time as me tbh. I tend to tr people I speak to more tbh.

Wouldnt this be a solid reason to talk to more of the players? Haze hardly spoke to anyone day 1. And the mark of their town play is to generate dialogue with everyone; and to discuss their reads; evaluate them and talk about something.

Again; best defense of haze is that hardly anyone was talking reads or hunting or even doing anything at all. The only people putting scumreads out into the game such as yoyo or myself or even dip for that matter (regardless of how bad they were; haze managed to scumread all of them.

Also I think you are misunderstanding my read on dip because I still don’t have The intention of voting them today I just decided they shouldn’t be top town. If anything I think it is likely one of you and them are mafia tbh but I don’t want To try to fight there today esp because I don’t feel confident enough on either of you being mafia

This is a strange pivot because not long after this they vote me because im annoying - and then proceed to produce no other reads or thoughts on anything beyond mech talk and limited banter. And by limited I mean 2 or 3 posts that posture knowing nothing about how mafia would play in the setup.


I just dont think that even in a mini game, in a weird setup, that haze would lose so much of what makes them usually positive, invested and curious.

The curiousity seems to be low by alot of players but matching the tone of a thread doesnt strike me as something haze considers their best talents.

I would have expected that haze would have tried to get more answers to questions than this based on their style of play.

Instead the playstyle is the sound of settling:

https://youtu.be/xQDgEBIh6hM?si=6qYDmCNv9Z8mHfY2

[ghug]

I think brain put their neck on the line big time to have been a scum player there but I question ghug switching off the no-kill. I know it was dying but why stay on it and just dip for a random person (I’ll read your posts again to see if there is reasoning for dip). It’s nice getting back from missing a few hours and not have 10 pages to go through so maybe I can analyze a bit more now

I regret it now given the final tally, but only three of us had expressed interest and I was leaving for the day, so I thought it was unlikely to succeed and thought it better to go for someone I scumread. His justification for his final vote on me made no sense and I got a sense that he was arguing just to argue, but it feels a little rich to blame me for this when I spent the whole day arguing that killing someone was a bad idea, which it was.

[ghug]

I think towards EoN, before spies get a chance to revert their recruitment orders, we ...

Well, shit, we can just do it early on D2.

Make a list of most likely to be recruited, then create a pool of daykills based on that.

We've gotta be killing the leaders, though. Killing recruits just slows the bleeding.

[SpiritoftheRadio]

Bozo seems cool, trying to solve, not being dumb, seems like town, maybe most town towny. Most importantly since there are no connections to draw between players rn is that he feels right on brand.

Bozo has explicitly stated he's not trying to solve. The fuck are you talking about?

You are correct there, my bad for the language i used, Bozo was one of the only folks i didn't reread so i didn't realize he said that. I had good vibes to me and that was all I needed. He was diving deeper into the math and outcomes of the mechanics and the probabilities more than anyone else, that stuck me as the town bozo i remember. That is a different kind of "solving" than it probably came off as in my reads post. I reread bozo now, and while I agree with my previous read for the day, he does seem kind of lukewarm when it comes to actually killing since he left it to HB to switch and he didn't even though he could have easily. Despite not favoring a no kill. Oh well, I was willing to let it be a tie for the interest of seeing who would let it happen anyway. Plus I wanted you dead more than dip.

HB comes out of this seeming more towny to me, although folks having some consistency in their beliefs would be nice, especially since HB is calling for us to focus on the no kill v. pro kill debate while his play could be retold coming down on either side at this point.

I feel like everyone is kind of playing like they're mafia because they might become mafia later. Just makes it hard to actually get a feel for anyone. Hopefully tomorrow we can actually get some info and start playing the game.

[SpiritoftheRadio]

I also feel like I am the only one committing to a stance on the kill v. no kill anyway. It is lonely here being towns strongest soldier *sips on more whiskey and delusions of grandeur*

[SpiritoftheRadio]

actually nevermind, dip committed to killin, but he dead now

[bozotheclown]

Bozo seems cool, trying to solve, not being dumb, seems like town, maybe most town towny. Most importantly since there are no connections to draw between players rn is that he feels right on brand.

Bozo has explicitly stated he's not trying to solve. The fuck are you talking about?

I have confidence in everyone's ability to generally look like town as mafia D1, especially when they have no teammates, but I did prefer DKing someone like Yoyoyozo, who I had essentially no information on, than someone who was doing more town telling like D&W or you, even considering the town telling could be fake.

[ghug]

I also feel like I am the only one committing to a stance on the kill v. no kill anyway. It is lonely here being towns strongest soldier *sips on more whiskey and delusions of grandeur*

I feel like everyone committed to a stance?

[SpiritoftheRadio]

I also feel like I am the only one committing to a stance on the kill v. no kill anyway. It is lonely here being towns strongest soldier *sips on more whiskey and delusions of grandeur*

I feel like everyone committed to a stance?

hard nope, you switched off no kill after advocating no kill all day, so did HB when he didn't need to. Bozo didn't fuck with the tie no kill when he wanted the kill to happen and was gunna let no kill happen. Just nope, you have the best excuse for being inconsistent because you were trying to save your skin, but nope. nope nope nope. folks are not being consistent. this is mafia, i am being ridiculous to expect this, but that is my frustration is all.

[SpiritoftheRadio]

if you need me, I'll be listening to a mountain goats record and having a nice cry