M 1029: The webMafia Olympics game 1 SPY VS SPY

[DiplomacyandWarfare]

I really don't like brainbomb's play here. He's acting stupid about mech and I know brainbomb is better at mech than that, and he's scumreading me in a way that I find ridiculous for brainbomb (suggesting statistics from 2 posts can be used to read my alignment compared to data from the limited other webDip mafia games I've played). Town brainbomb is very rational and a very good player and I don't think he would do either of these things as town.
##VOTE BRAINBOMB

[bozotheclown]

no, it doesn't.
At the point where there are 4 maf, we are more or less guaranteed to lose. This happens whether we nokill or miskill. The only situation where we have decent odds of a town win is if we kill a maf leader today, or if one or more maf recruits fail.

The remaining town are not guaranteed to lose because they still have a chance of being recruited to a winning mafia team, but I agree with your point.

To be clear, my point is that, with the goal of players who are town winning (not necessarily as town), killing today is a better idea than not killing because we potentially have a chance to knock out an entire maf team.

Yes, that is the point I was agreeing with.

[DiplomacyandWarfare]

The remaining town are not guaranteed to lose because they still have a chance of being recruited to a winning mafia team, but I agree with your point.

To be clear, my point is that, with the goal of players who are town winning (not necessarily as town), killing today is a better idea than not killing because we potentially have a chance to knock out an entire maf team.

Yes, that is the point I was agreeing with.

Are you trying to buddy me?

[brainbomb]

I really don't like brainbomb's play here. He's acting stupid about mech and I know brainbomb is better at mech than that, and he's scumreading me in a way that I find ridiculous for brainbomb (suggesting statistics from 2 posts can be used to read my alignment compared to data from the limited other webDip mafia games I've played). Town brainbomb is very rational and a very good player and I don't think he would do either of these things as town.
##VOTE BRAINBOMB

I was about to say, that you hadnt had a single scumread up to now but had posted about 700 words into the game all about the setup so far

[bozotheclown]

##CALL GM:

Are the mafia teams informed if they have more or less members than the other mafia team for the purpose of knowing if they can perform a NK?

this was answered in sign up: no

Was the question about what happens if both mafia try to recruit the same town player answered also?

[Bonatogether]

i don't believe in no-killing because town needs information

But what information would we gain with a miskill? There's no discussion around bussing or no-bussing, no protection of teammates.

we gain the vca

[bozotheclown]

To be clear, my point is that, with the goal of players who are town winning (not necessarily as town), killing today is a better idea than not killing because we potentially have a chance to knock out an entire maf team.

Yes, that is the point I was agreeing with.

Are you trying to buddy me?

If I were mafia, I don't think I would bother considering the dynamic alignments.

[bozotheclown]

i don't believe in no-killing because town needs information

But what information would we gain with a miskill? There's no discussion around bussing or no-bussing, no protection of teammates.

we gain the vca

The only voting motivation the 2 mafia have D1 is not to be the DK.

[brainbomb]

He's acting stupid about mech and I know brainbomb is better at mech than that,

Ive not advocated a contrary opinion to voting out mafia; in fact ive spent my energy all on hunting. I dont think a no kill is interesting or fun at all for any game; and is a last resort for if people cant rally around anything concrete.

Ive been voting and pushing you kind sir quite a bit. And you are clearly scum.

[Bonatogether]

...
I thought this was starting a day later than it did.
Working on a bit of a meta here:
We need to eliminate the two maf leaders, then everyone they've converted to win.

If we miskill today and neither maf targets the other, the ratio is suddenly 4:2:2 and it turns into a spy team 1 vs spy team 2 game, with town having a low chance of winning even if a maf leader is eliminated d2.
Bad for town, ok for both maf teams.

If we miskill today and one maf targets the other, the ratio is 5:2:1 and:
If we miskill tomorrow, the maf team with 2 players will likely kill the maf
leader of the other team, and they have an advantage.
If we kill the maf leader who failed to convert, the remaining maf team
recruits another player and wins soon after.
If we kill the maf leader who converted, the maf leader who did not has an
advantage as they can recruit and the other maf player can neither recruit
nor kill. The ratio becomes 5 1 1 or 4 1 2 and the second maf team most
likely wins.
If we kill the converted maf, the maf leaders (who know who each other are)
both successfully convert and then it's 3:2:2 and town is doomed.
If we kill no one, the same situation below miskill plays out except we have
an additional town player. We still probably lose.

Note: Both maf leaders would know who each other were in this scenario,
so either having more members than the opponent on their team can kill
that leader. They would also likely push for eliminations on each other.

If we miskill today and both maf teams target each other, both maf players will likely push for eliminations on each other. This situation is marginally better for us than our starting point, but very unlikely.

If we kill a maf leader today, the game becomes 6:2 where maf can convert as long as the leader is alive. This is terrible for us but slightly better than most of the alternatives above.

If we don't kill anyone today, we end up in a slightly better position that if we miskilled and the same variations apply.


TLDR: Town is doomed.

Holy shit I think this might be a game where we no kill D1

wrong

deeply true

[Bonatogether]

I really don't like brainbomb's play here. He's acting stupid about mech and I know brainbomb is better at mech than that, and he's scumreading me in a way that I find ridiculous for brainbomb (suggesting statistics from 2 posts can be used to read my alignment compared to data from the limited other webDip mafia games I've played). Town brainbomb is very rational and a very good player and I don't think he would do either of these things as town.
##VOTE BRAINBOMB

this is fake

##vote dipandcringe

[Bonatogether]

But what information would we gain with a miskill? There's no discussion around bussing or no-bussing, no protection of teammates.

we gain the vca

The only voting motivation the 2 mafia have D1 is not to be the DK.

we should force everyone to nearly be the dk and see who freaks out

[bozotheclown]

we gain the vca

The only voting motivation the 2 mafia have D1 is not to be the DK.

we should force everyone to nearly be the dk and see who freaks out

Getting DKed D1 is not a good option for town either in this game, since it makes it hard for town to win and eliminates the chance to win by being recruited to a winning mafia team.

[DiplomacyandWarfare]

I really don't like brainbomb's play here. He's acting stupid about mech and I know brainbomb is better at mech than that, and he's scumreading me in a way that I find ridiculous for brainbomb (suggesting statistics from 2 posts can be used to read my alignment compared to data from the limited other webDip mafia games I've played). Town brainbomb is very rational and a very good player and I don't think he would do either of these things as town.
##VOTE BRAINBOMB

I was about to say, that you hadnt had a single scumread up to now but had posted about 700 words into the game all about the setup so far

its called mech...

[DiplomacyandWarfare]

##CALL GM:

Are the mafia teams informed if they have more or less members than the other mafia team for the purpose of knowing if they can perform a NK?

this was answered in sign up: no

Was the question about what happens if both mafia try to recruit the same town player answered also?

yes: neither succeeds and the town player does not learn of their attempts.

[DiplomacyandWarfare]

The only voting motivation the 2 mafia have D1 is not to be the DK.

we should force everyone to nearly be the dk and see who freaks out

Getting DKed D1 is not a good option for town either in this game, since it makes it hard for town to win and eliminates the chance to win by being recruited to a winning mafia team.

Yea, dying as town means you probably lose. Maf also lose if they die d1 so basically everyone should be freaking out if they are in hammer range.

[DiplomacyandWarfare]

He's acting stupid about mech and I know brainbomb is better at mech than that,

Ive not advocated a contrary opinion to voting out mafia; in fact ive spent my energy all on hunting. I dont think a no kill is interesting or fun at all for any game; and is a last resort for if people cant rally around anything concrete.

Ive been voting and pushing you kind sir quite a bit. And you are clearly scum.

your original reasons for voting me:

##vote diplomacy

As he hasnt answered my questions; in M1028 he posted about 95.00 words per post as scum. When hes mafia he loads up his posts. heres an example of his very large posts he tends to make as mafia

M1028 Scum game Dip:
http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?user=Diplomacy&g=1028

M87 Scum game Dip:
http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?user=Diplomacy&g=87

M90 Town game Dip:
http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g=90&part=Day%201&user=DiplomacyandWarfare

M89 Town game Dip:
http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g=89&part=Day%201&user=DiplomacyandWarfare

I think in the 2 scum examples you see he tends towards very large posts about things and there is alot less small talk. As mafia his words per day per post are about 95, which is quite high. he makes big big posts as scum.
As town, he has conversations with people. he makes small talk. He fights in the pit with the grunts like a townie would. His words per post per day as town reside at 24.6 words a post. he doesnt do long sermons as town.

current game his 4 posts thus far are topping 123 words per post, and fit the mould he has for himself when hes mafia

So your reasons for voting me were that I was having a life instead of checking the thread and that your hilariously small amount of data correlates me posting longer posts with me being scum.

[DiplomacyandWarfare]

Me: Leaves to do smh IRL
Brainbomb in 15 minutes: wow dip just left without answering my questions see according to my data in this one specific cherry picked game dip ghosted people as maf so therefore dip must be maf.

[dargorygel]

##CALL GM

What happens if both mafia teams simultaneously try to recruit the same town player?

Nothing... the two spies see each other hanging around outside, and bounce back to their hideout. No one is recruited. The 'visited' person is not notified.

[dargorygel]

##CALL GM:

Are the mafia teams informed if they have more or less members than the other mafia team for the purpose of knowing if they can perform a NK?

They are NOT informed. Each night they make a decision to attempt a NK or attempt a recruiting action. They will know they have the ability to NK when/if they attempt a NK and it succeeds.