M 90: Shootout at the Pretty Good Corral

[FlaviusAetius]

if someone is widely townread but forced into being widely townread because the entire scumteam puts them as their top town; is that still a legit status of "widely" townread?

no. no nope no.
naw

Very few people are "widely" townread Id say Vecna was best person for that

[FlaviusAetius]

(Or Bozo. Killing Bozo should definitely be an option).

No it should not?? Brain made a very good defense of bozo I believed it, if you disagree then show up and ARGUE against it!

[FlaviusAetius]

I think Balki was likely distancing his teammates.

Balki could you remind me why I am your top scumread?

Yeah, you don't sound sincere. It's just...too much. I am getting vibes of someone looking to criticize and then blowing up in a way that looks manufactured and inauthentic.

so far I like brain, Bunny, Chaqa, Jamie, sweetandcool for town.
…maybe foodcoats too?
I feel like I should like Flavius for town too, but he seems so over the top. It doesn’t feel real. But that would probably be NAI (he can do a bit as either alignment). not sure what to do with him yet

I think I like Chaqa too. We have two in common (brain, Chaqa)

I am surprised you like Jamiet, though I am feeling more comfortable with his effort-level and prob-y-ness after his first couple of hours in the game. Still think he has a higher chance than a random pick of flipping scum here.

With Flava Flav, I was thrown by the all caps usage in the first game I played with him. I think I was just reading that as over the top in a way he didn’t mean it. Now having that prior game as context, this game feels much more organic and sincere. Unfiltered. Town!Flav.

Balki hedging his read on Jamie when Jamie was still the top wagon, then keeping his vote on Jamie until after everyone else had moved their vote, is a strong indication that Balki was distance voting Jamie while trying to prevent him from being the DK.

I get the feeling Balki was telling us exactly what sweetandcool was doing as a way to disance/bus him:

Okay, one thought I'd like to leave you with if this is the last thing I post.

Been thinking a lot about the psychology of sweetandcool.

Sweet is a good player. He legit played one of the best Town games I have seen two games ago when he was Cop, his reads were right on the money, and he executed a role swap that essentially pushed Town into Auto-win.

I can see Sweet making a bold gambit as any alignment. He will take risks, spur discussion, grab the spotlight. All of that is NAI.

His gambit this game though looks different to me. He hard claimed Detective. Then hard claimed Desperado. Then hard claimed Detective. He did it all on a day when the real PRs would have no incentive to claim, and he did it assertively, without trying to avoid a daykill or vig shot.

To me -- this is "look at me" stuff that is very different than a normal Town!Sweet gambit, which is to role swap or fake a claim at a time when it makes sense, and has to be taken seriously. This is "look at me, look at me" for its own sake. And Sweet absolutely knew he was going to get eye rolls and frustration for it.

So what is Sweet's motivation? Is it some kind of weird reaction test? Does that make sense? Say something that makes no strategic sense to get people talking about you? If that's the Town!Sweet play, it is exceptionally unusual.

And beyond being unusual, it's kind of embarrassing. I am trying to picture Town!Sweet, going to Discord after this game, and talking to everyone about his strategy. I am having a really hard time picturing that happeneing.

But what if he is Scum!Sweet? Then he rolls up to Discord after the whole thing ends and says "Yeah, I just figured that if I went a littel crazy and started hard claiming all the rolls, nobody would expect I would call so much attention to myself unnecessarily as Scum. And it worked!"

Then he is respected and lauded.

I can see Sweet taking that kind of risk as Scum!Sweet. It's not a terrible play. It's really not that difficult to execute. It gives him a bit of a shield and an excuse for not engaging very hard in the scumhunting part of the game. And I think it has had a very predictable outcome so far -- namely that many people have considered Sweet untouchable for doing exactly this.

I don't see Town!Sweet taking this risk. If this gambit fails for Town!Sweet, it is a complete embarrassment.

I think that Scum!Sweet is much more likely.

If this is it for me, my legacy guess is Sweetandcool, Jamiet, rdrivera, and... Fish!

Good luck.

My gun was activated D2 but I did not use it.

Of the other players, Balki mostly ignores RHK, so I think there is a good chance RHK is mafia.

Supporting reasons:

##vote bunny

Yes!

##VOTE Bunny

##Vote Bunny

I don't feel any hunting from bunny. Just a lot of one liners and hedging. The vote pattern on D1 throws me off too. Way too much waffling to the point of trying to drum up artificial pressure. Just seems disinterested?

sweetandcool and RHK jump at the chance to make BunnyGo the top wagon over Balki leading up to D2 EOD. Also, I think RHK’s vote justification seems questionable.

I am not paying attention to this game.

Bunny is top wagon atm. No one voted BB with me (and yes I don’t count you) when really given the chance.

I will happily vote for Chaqa, Flavius, or you for for the bitching of brain yet disappearance.

So your reasoning is Bunny is top wagon and that's it?

Yikes, I know how infuriating it is when you are Town and people vote you because you are top wagon.

##VOTE King instead.

Then, sweetandcool takes the opportunity to make BunnyGo and kingofthepirates the top wagons.

That makes it 3 out of 3 for players I voted for today scum reading me as a result.

Bozo, I am not scumreading you as a result of you voting me today. You know that because you have seen me present multiple reasons for scumreading you, and you have replied to them.

That being the case it is very, very insincere of you to claim I am scumreading you, because you voted for me.

This earns you a ##Vote Bozotheclown

Jamie takes the opportunity to make me a wagon near EOD after voting for sweetandcool for 45 hours of D2.

##Vote Balki

I was already townreading Eden and I believe his claim.

Huh.

Well, guilty is a guilty, leggo bois!

##Vote Balki

##End

##VOTE Balki
##END

Jamie, RHK, and sweetandcool all respond to PE’s scan consistent with how the mafia would respond.

We got one...yay?

Fuck that sucked.

Any town want to fess up? Seriously if you shot we NEED to know now. We have to know how many shots were scum.

I guess there is a non-zero chance Worc shot Chaqa, but I doubt it.

##CALL GM

Is the 4th flavor ONLY flavor, or were there really 4 shots?

Eden was obviously a scum kill. I think Chaqa highly likely a scum kill leaving worcej shot by misguided lawman.

I highly agree with this.

Small chance Town brainbomb shot Chaqa.

During N2, RHK and sweetandcool were actively trying to find out who shot Chaqa, instead of assuming the mafia shot him. The mafia would want to know so they could NK someone who has a chance of getting a gun D3-D5.

The gunned, unfired lawmen need to hide.

Scum likely know what shots were taken, and a spent lawmen is nothing more than the softest of clears, as we can't confirm them.

And they hide in a crowd.

But I'll help. I was the one who shot worcej.

Hard claim!

I suspect sweetandcool did shoot worcej or knows what mafia member did.

come on sweet. rise above the moment and make a proclamation. the town -you- should be able to squash this with ease. if there's no merit to it, you should be able to have some eureka here and turn this around vs me.

excited for yet another battle. lets do this

Yeah I barely have time to solve. I am going to be productive and build a case on Flav.

King is caught, after my case Flav will be as well, then it's just a matter of puzzling the last one out.

what do you mean by chainsaw? worcej hasn't elaborated at all on the vote, for all we know it could be just as your questioning is; a jest. Bunny has said some rather cryptic things that I don't quite understand, probably playing into the Ronin gimmick.

Pure towny K-POP vibes. Not trying to jump on anyone or anything. You can be Town.

sweetandcool’s confidence that kingofthepirates is mafia is suspicious considering Balki seemed to be pocketing him early.

Scum:
Flav
Bunny
Balki
rdr

Town:
brain
Vecna
sweet
Eden

I disagree with many people's thoughts on Bunny's late votes, there was never a risk of a tie with how bunbun moved. There was a lot of off and on of food there. When I first saw the vote, I thought it was an rdr save, but it may havbe been more of a clog the vote situation, and shading rdr was a bonus.

rdr is low activity at the best of times, and that is me ofa ll people saying that. His posts just make me feel like he's even less assed than usual to contribute. Was a late D1 wagon, but Bunny killed it last minute, making a possible link I want to look at more, and maybe get some eyes on.

Balki I felt came in hard, white knighting for Flav and I don't like it. Everything he says looks just a little off. Like the whole 'day of reckoning' struff. If we wait until D4 or D5 the game will already be over. Lowkey sinister imo.

Flav. What more can I say. I will fully admit that I'm tunneling him (again) and it's the manner that puts me off more than anything, but every post feels like secondhand ammunition. Just taking someone else's ball and running with it. Plus, he was sooo pround of being the one to start that food wagon riiiight up until the flip.

--

As for sweet, he's town methinks. It's a glorious shitshow of claims. I think it's just too deep he may as well own it. Not scum. Not helpful, maybe, but it keeps us talking, talking is good.

Vecna and Chaqa both feel like the down low solvers I'm used to. Brain is town, 1000% lock. I would not vote for him, even to save myself he is so town.

kotp and fish are super low impact. Not much to say imo.

Eden is giving me town HR vibes this game. Me likey.

bozo, damo, and worc are hard nulls. Half the time I am nodding along with them, the other half I want to yell at the monitor. I fully admit I am punting here.

Jamie. I was town on Jamie. Then I felt like Flav was using his posts like a tag team against people. Then I felt he was hunting and doing a good job, and that being used/defended/buddied isn't scummy by itself. Then brain starting making some points. I'm split.

Hope to see y'all on the other side, cowpokes.

I wouldn't shoiot brain.

On a related note, anyone susing on brain, is a fucking idiot.

Trying to ignore my flav tunnel is leading me back to bunny. I feel like the late counterpushes to food were all towny and that Bunny kept hopping the wagon to fake momentum any time they hopped back on. While this might point to rdr as well, I am less sold on it. Bunny had flimsy reasoning, such as tie-breaking, which is worthless is this setup. Just reading over the iso...it's a big nothing cake, like worse than Flav even. I can't even find a goddamn post to quote that has any reasoning.

Also hope everything is good, as I just realizes Bunny hasn't even posted yet today.

Like... Bunny / rdr / damo / flav? Bunny rdr / Balki flav? I dunno

RHK had Balki in his scum reads N1, but did not comment on PE’s case against Balki D2, and dropped Balki down to a secondary scum read.

I think it is highly unlikely Balki would try to distance himself from all his teammates but maybe one or two? Balki is a smart fellow he acted like he wasnt this game

[Jamiet99uk]

(Or Bozo. Killing Bozo should definitely be an option).

No it should not?? Brain made a very good defense of bozo I believed it, if you disagree then show up and ARGUE against it!

I'm right here, you little goofball.

[FlaviusAetius]

##VOTE Pirate

Going to keep chugging along with my case on Flav.

If we don't vote out one of these guys today I am going to go crazy.

We need to know how many town guns we have now. Did you shoot worcej?

WHY would you ask this

[FlaviusAetius]

(Or Bozo. Killing Bozo should definitely be an option).

No it should not?? Brain made a very good defense of bozo I believed it, if you disagree then show up and ARGUE against it!

I'm right here, you little goofball.

Then dont ignore his argument and say why its wrong because I dont think it is

[sweetandcool]

Flavius, this is an opinion you shared multiple times last game:

"Oh ok, but my point still stands, I will TARGET anyone who doesnt talk for a prolonged period of time, I understand reasons to do this in the beginning, but it should change..."

Does that mean you are currently scumreading Pirate and lfisch?

[sweetandcool]

Also, I got carried away making my anal case on Flav, because I don't know how to convince people.

I'm going to shelve it, because his content is pretty repetitive and it gets tiresome to keep mentioning the same things, and consequently my commentary was becoming borderline insulting.

I'm going to focus on Flav still, but I need to retool.

Also, taking a step back and pondering the game made me realize:

If Bozo is Mafia, and he had not made this play today, then he would not be on the block at all.

I still think that Bozo is 50/50 alignment wise. If Mafia has two guns they just need a MK to win, unless a lawman gets lucky.

I think the RB claim and on top of that the Bozo lawman claim is a great strategy for Mafia to drive a MK. It's horrible long term strategy, but that doesn't matter if they immediately win.

Anyways, my takeaway here is that because of it being a bit of a WIFOM, we target someone who is not Bozo. If we survive today, then we will probably have a much better idea of Bozo's alignment.

As for Pirate, coming into today he was already a very likely DK. Role blocking him is completely unnecessary because he was already a DK target and risks clearing him.

Consequently, it is extremely likely Mafia is trying to save Pirate via RB WIFOM.

##VOTE King

[rdrivera2005]

Also, I got carried away making my anal case on Flav, because I don't know how to convince people.

I'm going to shelve it, because his content is pretty repetitive and it gets tiresome to keep mentioning the same things, and consequently my commentary was becoming borderline insulting.

I'm going to focus on Flav still, but I need to retool.

Also, taking a step back and pondering the game made me realize:

If Bozo is Mafia, and he had not made this play today, then he would not be on the block at all.

I still think that Bozo is 50/50 alignment wise. If Mafia has two guns they just need a MK to win, unless a lawman gets lucky.

I think the RB claim and on top of that the Bozo lawman claim is a great strategy for Mafia to drive a MK. It's horrible long term strategy, but that doesn't matter if they immediately win.

Anyways, my takeaway here is that because of it being a bit of a WIFOM, we target someone who is not Bozo. If we survive today, then we will probably have a much better idea of Bozo's alignment.

As for Pirate, coming into today he was already a very likely DK. Role blocking him is completely unnecessary because he was already a DK target and risks clearing him.

Consequently, it is extremely likely Mafia is trying to save Pirate via RB WIFOM.

##VOTE King

I got this feeling from Demon post.

I was considering to start a lfishcl wagon to see who joins it, but I guess at this points if king is scum, scum know that he is toasted.

[sweetandcool]

Now why not lfisch instead of Pirate? A valid question, particularly if you ignore the RB completely.

Why Pirate: Pirate has generally been a lower posting player every game. Not quite lurky, for the most part, but minimal.

Pirate does participate and does attempt to solve. When he is actually busy and struggling to keep up he has an established meta of sheeping the top wagon and very rarely instead supporting a counterwagon he agrees with.

In this game, despite lurking starting N1 (although acting lost D1), he has demonstrated an understanding of the game state. He voted Eden D2, who had no votes on him FFS. This is unprecedented!!! He always sheeps when he is too busy to properly play.

Now, when the chips are finally down, he has been drawn into posting again due to the imminent danger of his slot being flipped. This is no coincidence!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why lfisch:

lfisch is understandably a target due to lurking. It's entirely possible he and King are both Mafia, but it's difficult to assess how likely that is, due to lfisch's more extreme lurking.

The one thing lfisch has going for him, which makes him a worse target today than Pirate, is that he has an established meta of lurking.

Is lfisch Mafia? No idea, maybe. But it is certain that Pirate is a much better target for the DK.

[bozotheclown]

##vote king

Know what why not fischl??
##vote fischl
If the whole argument for KOTP is that he is an average lurker why not fischl? I dont disagree its time to kill a lurker but is KOTP the right one? I've seen nothing that says he is, unless something comes out in the next few pages this is just silly

Can you please provide your prediction for the 3 remaining mafia?

[bozotheclown]

Predictions of the final 3 mafia:

bozo: RHK, Jamie, sweetandcool
sweetandcool: Flavius, kingofthepirates, bozo
Jamie: bozo, lfischl, kingofthepirates
rdrivera: lfischl, Jamie, Flavius
BunnyGo: kingofthepirates, lfischl, Jamie
damo: kingofthepirates, lfischl, RHK
RHK: Flavius, lfischl, rdrivera
lfischl: Jamie, kingofthepirates, rdrivera
kingofthepirates: Flavius, lfischl, ?
Flavius: lfischl, ?, ?

[FlaviusAetius]

I think sweetandcool and Jamie are following through on their preplanned post sequence and ignoring my EON post.

I think ignoring such a big post like that is wild

[FlaviusAetius]

##vote king

Know what why not fischl??
##vote fischl
If the whole argument for KOTP is that he is an average lurker why not fischl? I dont disagree its time to kill a lurker but is KOTP the right one? I've seen nothing that says he is, unless something comes out in the next few pages this is just silly

Can you please provide your prediction for the 3 remaining mafia?

fischl, sweet, rdr (maybe)

[FlaviusAetius]

##vote lfischl

[FlaviusAetius]

well to be honest I cant say fischl I am voting him right now to make a point that the KOTP vote is silly , I still dont like A LOT of the stuff Jamie has done so he can be my third not fischl

[FlaviusAetius]

##VOTE Jamie

why did you vote three people in quick succession?

[FlaviusAetius]

I think sweetandcool and Jamie are following through on their preplanned post sequence and ignoring my EON post.

I tend to not talk about large posts until I have a chance to properly absorb them.

That being said, I find it suspicious that you suddenly start pushing MKs (yes if you are town you don't know this) out of the blue.

King and Flav and one other are Mafia. I worry you are the final Mafia.

THIS makes no sense, if you dont want to talk about a big post right away because you dont have time , that is fine BUT because you want to "absorb" them? What are you even talking about

[bozotheclown]

Apparently questioning Sweet, even in jest, makes Bunny and Worcej immediately chainsaw me.

That's interesting.

what do you mean by chainsaw? worcej hasn't elaborated at all on the vote, for all we know it could be just as your questioning is; a jest. Bunny has said some rather cryptic things that I don't quite understand, probably playing into the Ronin gimmick.

Pure towny K-POP vibes. Not trying to jump on anyone or anything. You can be Town.

You dicks want to hound me out of the game on D1 because you don't like me in person?

I'm on the absolute cusp of asking to sub out.

you do realize the jamie wagon was CREATED and DIED last game for the same exact reasons? People who go after you ARE the ones we should be looking at because their taking an easy pot shot, but you freaking out over it is WEIRD to me because this happens to you every game, and ends the same way every game so how can you say THIS is the straw on the camel's back?

Flavius was Towning all over Page 9. Unfiltered. Solvey. Town.

Everyone (besides myself) listed either kingofthepirates or Flavius, is this what Balki likes to do as mafia, town read his teammates early D1?

[sweetandcool]

I think sweetandcool and Jamie are following through on their preplanned post sequence and ignoring my EON post.

I tend to not talk about large posts until I have a chance to properly absorb them.

That being said, I find it suspicious that you suddenly start pushing MKs (yes if you are town you don't know this) out of the blue.

King and Flav and one other are Mafia. I worry you are the final Mafia.

THIS makes no sense, if you dont want to talk about a big post right away because you dont have time , that is fine BUT because you want to "absorb" them? What are you even talking about

More high quality content from Flav.