Mafia XL - A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum

[ghug]

What the fuck does this line of questioning have to do with anything

Provoking the Jamies of the world to derail conversation is scum 101, and any situation where you mislead in a way that you can point back later and say "I didn't lie" is suspicious of.

Dude it's Raging Ike...

I point you back to my opening post you disliked. I still want an answer and there's nothing else going on right now.

[RagingIke297]

You posted a bunch of individual role PMs for VTs at the beginning of the thread. The result was multiple people slipping. You're certainly aware that this happened, and it was clearly what worcej was talking about. Why he misleading?

Multiple people?

And Worcej had brought up some thing about how I was going to send out names to VT at some point during the game, that was never the case

Yes, multiple people.

He got details wrong. Jamie was throwing a fit about whether it happened at all. You implied it didn't.

Now you're avoiding the question. Were you aware that your game had had anyone slipping because of confusion over setup details!

100% aware, yes

[RagingIke297]

I, like Durga fail to see the point in this line of questioning. Worcej stated something incorrect about my game, Jamie called him on it, and I confirmed Jamie was correct.

I will say that Worcej didnt seem to differentiate a Role PM from a Flavor Name and that may have caused some confusion.

[bozotheclown]

I am not sure about the top wagons. damo's vote for yavuzovic and unvoting when he was criticized for it does not look good, but that is not much to go on. Jamie will apparently be replaced. I am going to put my vote on peterlund, he seems to be avoiding saying anything significant with his posts so far.

##VOTE peterlund

[ghug]

I, like Durga fail to see the point in this line of questioning. Worcej stated something incorrect about my game, Jamie called him on it, and I confirmed Jamie was correct.

I will say that Worcej didnt seem to differentiate a Role PM from a Flavor Name and that may have caused some confusion.

Worcej was claiming that he reads the rules closely because the mixup there hurt his game. Do you deny that?

[ghug]

Also that shit was definitely your fault, but that's not really relevant now.

[RagingIke297]

I, like Durga fail to see the point in this line of questioning. Worcej stated something incorrect about my game, Jamie called him on it, and I confirmed Jamie was correct.

I will say that Worcej didnt seem to differentiate a Role PM from a Flavor Name and that may have caused some confusion.

Worcej was claiming that he reads the rules closely because the mixup there hurt his game. Do you deny that?

Nope

Also that shit was definitely your fault, but that's not really relevant now.

Screw you ghug, also not relevant but made me feel better

[RagingIke297]

What the fuck does this line of questioning have to do with anything

Provoking the Jamies of the world to derail conversation is scum 101, and any situation where you mislead in a way that you can point back later and say "I didn't lie" is suspicious of.

Dude it's Raging Ike...

How is this supposed to be taken?

[ghug]

I, like Durga fail to see the point in this line of questioning. Worcej stated something incorrect about my game, Jamie called him on it, and I confirmed Jamie was correct.

I will say that Worcej didnt seem to differentiate a Role PM from a Flavor Name and that may have caused some confusion.

Worcej was claiming that he reads the rules closely because the mixup there hurt his game. Do you deny that?

Nope

Jamie was questioning that claim. Why would you not corroborate if you agree with the claim?

Provoking the Jamies of the world to derail conversation is scum 101, and any situation where you mislead in a way that you can point back later and say "I didn't lie" is suspicious of.

Dude it's Raging Ike...

How is this supposed to be taken?

Insultingly

[Durga]

Provoking the Jamies of the world to derail conversation is scum 101, and any situation where you mislead in a way that you can point back later and say "I didn't lie" is suspicious of.

Dude it's Raging Ike...

How is this supposed to be taken?

I think you did something like that to me in a press game once. I need to write a piece on why this is a shit strategy and that webdippers need to stop this.

[RagingIke297]

Dude it's Raging Ike...

How is this supposed to be taken?

I think you did something like that to me in a press game once. I need to write a piece on why this is a shit strategy and that webdippers need to stop this.

Yeah, that game got canceled partially because you were absolutely terrible to me and had no interest in continuing to play.

Worcej was claiming that he reads the rules closely because the mixup there hurt his game. Do you deny that?

Nope

Jamie was questioning that claim. Why would you not corroborate if you agree with the claim?

Dude it's Raging Ike...

How is this supposed to be taken?

Insultingly

I don't know what you want Ghug, so I'm going to say it one more time and drop it, Worcej said "Do you not remember that the decision to send the PRs their role PM only on D1 and all VT would receive them N1/D2?"
Jamie said "@RagingIke, can you confirm if there is any truth to what Worcej is saying?"
I said "Everyone was sent a role PM at the start of the game, even VT"

Worcej had it wrong, Jamie and I set him right.

[RagingIke297]

Missed a word in that last post:

Yeah, that game got canceled partially because you were absolutely terrible to me and *I* had no interest in continuing to play. 

[RagingIke297]

Anyone worth my time want to have a conversation? I'm thinking about the box and how it might be useful to use a strategy which I think was suggested a few games ago where everyone says what they would do with it if they had it, that way we can go back later and have a verifiable trail of where it went without giving scum the answer immediately either. It could be problematic if multiple people die right after passing the box and we are waiting a day or a day and a half to claim...

[Balki Bartokomous]

3) I think the style of that post was anti-town. The problem with this game is that everyone has a habit or style that is anti-town so it gets ridiculously hard to sort out what is a habit/playstyle and what is anti-town because you are scum. In this case, I don't think being lacking in detail drives a scum agenda in anyway, so I think it is probably more a thing of your playstyle that I dislike.

I appreciate this admission from Squigs, and I read him as town for it. I feel like a scum player pushes a scum read here; this feels more authentic.

Squigs is town, or crafty scum. Likely town.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Anyone worth my time want to have a conversation? I'm thinking about the box and how it might be useful to use a strategy which I think was suggested a few games ago where everyone says what they would do with it if they had it, that way we can go back later and have a verifiable trail of where it went without giving scum the answer immediately either. It could be problematic if multiple people die right after passing the box and we are waiting a day or a day and a half to claim...

Hmmm, that might be a good idea. I validate this as worth a discussion.

I understand this proposal as: everyone says who they would pass the box to if they hypothetically had the box. There is an information advantage here. Just the act of everyone saying to whom they would give the box might add useful information to the thread.

One problem I see is that if we do this every day, and we insist that all Townies be honest about it, all it takes is one Box item reveal (e.g., Oracle, or extra vote, or successful bullet proof vest, or box save, or something else) to reveal the entire trail of box-holders. I fear that bringing the information to light would be scum-sided on net.

Another problem is that there is little accountability if scum lies. I suppose that the Watcher provides some accountability, but there are enough ways to screw up Watcher reads (e.g., Driver, the box went to someone random for one of a variety of reasons, person who sent box can say they did not send the box but did something else, etc.) that I don't think we have a good way to enforce honesty on behalf of the mafia here. So we would mostly be leaving a breadcrumb trail regarding where the box is, if it's in town hands, without gaining information about where the box is if it is scum hands.

I think, on balance, this is not a good plan. But I am interested to hear other views.

[ghug]

Yeah, I feel like a plan like that makes the near-inevitability that scum does get the box even more problematic, as they can throw the whole thing into disarray.

I'm really ticked off that Ike doesn't see the problem with his answer to the question about his game, but I feel like his reaction to questioning betrays that he's actually just an idiot, which makes it somewhere between unindicative and a towntell.

[Vecna]

Cool reads yav I can tell alot of time went into that kudos!

Next point, I am getting a townlean on Durga. She probably a good guy.

This feels wrong. Maybe he's doing the exact opposite of last game

He does tend to do that

[Vecna]

Jamie is definitely hamming himself up thu hmm

Whut?

Yep.

As for the others commenting almost exclusively on me, that's cool and all, but they almost always parrot each other from a meta standpoint and I need to see them actually, you know, talk about the game other than favorite whipping boy ND.

Pretty sure he's still town though

[Vecna]

There is a lot of arguing and posting on previous games, the setup, and about 70 layers of meta reasoning between worc and jamie. I'm leaning town on jamie and null on worc.

Vecna chiding Durga for winding Jamie up and proceeding to do just that is poor play and I'm slight scum on him for it. Durgas reading town, but I don't think I've seen her as scum in a while and may have forgotten her scum-play.

Szpot came in a shitty Ezio Special no lynch but has made some solid posts since.

Balki is hit or miss. I like the clear reads but hard shutting out discussion is never towny.

yavu had a slip in one of his posts (talking about we in reference to scum), and for that I'm on a ##Vote Yavu.

Jumping on "slips" to scumread someone is nearly always a scumtell.

[Vecna]

yavu had a slip in one of his posts (talking about we in reference to scum), and for that I'm on a ##Vote Yavu.

Can you quote the post please? Make this easy for us.

You think that Yavu just absentmindedly referred to him and his scummates as "we"? That strikes me as unusual, but I'd like to see what you mean.

Proof that Balki isnt really reading the game all too sharply