M 90: Shootout at the Pretty Good Corral

[DemonRHK]

Would you say this as a gunman planning to shoot me? Lol

Why do I never trust you even when youre sincere. I still feel bad about the rpg.

Eh don't. It's just a game. And a shitshow.

As far as this game, the bona thing was such a major townslip you'd not be in my scumreads ever. Plus, it helps to have a root to build off of while solving.

Thoughts on lfischl?

Without a reread, blank. Not null, blank. I can tell you fish is in the game, and posting every so often but there's nothing there. Not quite intentional absense, but pushing it.

[DemonRHK]

One thing I learned from that was you are a fantastic roleplayer. Being able to play a group of hedonist kobolds, a distressed angry woman, and a proud noble king all interchangeably.

Thus why I do still wonder why you have dedicated so much energy into following me this game and pushing my townyness.

Im glad, thanks. Just wish you felt so passionate about others as well

Also, that is what happens when I don't get a creative outlet. I just don't have that strong of feeling on others. I still think sweet is town. Mostly sold on Eden. Chaqa I was but it's going ehhh.

[Balki Bartokomous]

@Eden, I am going to respond point-by-point to your case. I know this will be a lot of text, but I hope you'll read it and engage with it. I am really writing it only for you because I doubt many others take the time to read it.

1. His case on sweetandcool doesn’t seem organic to me. For readability I’m snipping the actual text, but leaving the hyperlink quote because for some reason this is the only URL tag that works on the forum now (click the green up arrow to follow to the post):

Balki starts with an acknowledgment that sweetandcool is a wild and crazy guy who isn’t afraid of bold gambits or public opinion about them. He then speculates about sweet’s possible motivations… but seems to focus entirely on the personal satisfaction sweet is set to gain from his antics. You’d think sweet is just some egomaniac big brain chasing the dopamine hit of Discord literally-whos fanning his balls over his brilliance. And sure, I imagine like most smart people, sweet enjoys a good ego stroke.

But sweet also wants to win, and fervently believes the current town meta regarding fakeclaims is net negative EV. We just watched him go for several dubious fakeclaims in the last game that got him miskilled and could have been the source of profound embarrassment. Balki knows all this. Why doesn’t he even discuss the possibility? Why does he analyze it through the lens of some questionable psychoanalysis?

It seems like your first point here is that I fail to consider Sweet's fake claims last game. And your second point here is that my analysis is "questionable psychoabalysis."

On the first point, I am very much considering Sweet's prior fake claims and the profound embarrassment piece. These two paragraphs were in the middle of my analysis:

His gambit this game though looks different to me. He hard claimed Detective. Then hard claimed Desperado. Then hard claimed Detective. He did it all on a day when the real PRs would have no incentive to claim, and he did it assertively, without trying to avoid a daykill or vig shot.

To me -- this is "look at me" stuff that is very different than a normal Town!Sweet gambit, which is to role swap or fake a claim at a time when it makes sense, and has to be taken seriously. This is "look at me, look at me" for its own sake. And Sweet absolutely knew he was going to get eye rolls and frustration for it.

I don't think I can put it clearer than that. His claims this game were more of a rough facsimile, and timed in a way to garner eye rolls of a much different vigor.

This is the whole point. Jumping into the start of the first day and hard claiming Detective is something that no "real" Detective in his right mind would do. Later hard claiming Desperado and insisting you are not joking is a joke itself.

These is an absolutely distinct and divergent sweetandcool, and you saying that I failed to account for sweet's prior fake claims is...not your best work.

On your second point, I am not going to trumpet by psychological credentials. I have none. But when I am stuck in a hole of confusion in this game, I find it useful to think about the God thread, and imagine the different scenarios of emerging from the game, and hearing who was Town and who was Scum, and trying to think about what makes more sense. That is the simple exercise that I am applying here.

I think that Sweet's prior embarrassment supports my case. I think he is more likely to engage in this parody of his prior play if he has a punch line he can say at the end. The only punch line I can think of is: "ha, I was scum! Gotcha!"

Balki doesn’t even entertain the obvious tangible benefits of sweet’s behavior. When a townie draws PR-related attention to himself but leaves the outcome ambiguous, that confuses town and mafia. We tend to focus more attention on town confusion because it’s more acute, it’s felt by more players, and because mafia players are historically risk-averse, temperamentally conservative creatures. What’s often lost, outside of the most dramatic examples, is that real value exists in confusing the mafia. If sweet had been nightkilled out of uncertainty over his role and flipped VT, sparing obvtown Vecna for a cycle, that’s a win for town. Even eating a roleblock is a minor win for town (and lo and behold, sweet claimed that he did, with no contradiction yet).

Of course I entertain the abvious tangible benefits of townies fake claiming PRs. I was fake claiming PRs well before it was cool. I have beyond "entertained" these tangible benefits, I have taken them back to my place and made them breakfast in the morning.

What you are ignoring is that I find Sweet's Day 1 to be of a different character than a fake claim in the ordinary sense. It is a parody of a fake claim. It is a fake claim when the actual players in those roles would never actually claim. There was no reason for the Investigatoor the Desperado to claim Day 1 unless they were about to be daykilled and needed help off the gallows. So anyone popping off about being either, in a hard way or a soft way, is less apt to confuse mafia than someone who is remaining entirely silent about their roles. I don't think Town!Sweet would see this differently. I know from experience that Town!Sweet is very good at fake claiming in a way that actually confuses Mafia.

2. Balki is in the “sweet spot” for active mafia. I say that acknowledging that I am too, but that’s fine, it’ll work itself out. He’s present in the thread, engaging with ideas, decidedly not lurking… but he doesn’t stand out as one of the stronger voices in the room. A good contrast here is Chaqa, who is only slightly more active by post count but has been a much more forceful participant in the thread. This level of activity allows Balki to skirt claims that he’s lurking or not invested, but it’s also excused him from committal reads. His post on sweet that I’m criticizing is the strongest stance he’s taken all game, and it’s still got issues as noted earlier.

I think you'll agree that this point is extremely weak and was probably only added to increase the number count of your "points." I have had a lot of reads in this game. I'd say I have been more sure of my Town reads than my Scum reads, but I have been out front on my Town reads (e.g., Flavius, KPOP, Vecna, brainbomb). I also haven't been very sure of my scum reads, but that's Day 1 for you.

3. I mentioned that he’s avoided committal reads. Balki’s D1 was pretty ambivalent. (Fun fact, this was my word, then I removed it to avoid prejudging him, then I found that he described himself as ambivalent lol.) I don’t think his reasoning on not killing foodcoats holds up to scrutiny at all:

I don’t think we kill food here with his claim. We’ll learn more about that claim as time progresses.

Let’s kill rdrivera or Jamiet.

I was just screwing around. When Chaqa fake-GM-posted it triggered me.

Why not wait two days, see if Foody is NKed or CCed, and then make a decision on foodcoats?

Note the timestamps and remember that EOD was at xx:15 rather than xx:00. (16:15 or 16:00 for me but probably different for y’all.) Balki doesn’t want to kill foodcoats because foodcoats hardclaimed Sheriff. foodcoats then tells Balki it’s a joke. Balki then tries to marshal people onto rdrivera to buy time for foodcoats’s claim to resolve itself…? And in the meantime, rdrivera is a true null for Balki:

You guys still want to kill food after that assless chaps quip? I don’t.

I am feeling ambivalent.

##vote rdrivera. I have him at Null. But I feel like I will have him at Null seven days from now as well. Let’s do a solid for future Balki, and maybe he is scum.

So, I do see now that foodcoats retracted his Sheriff claim. I had not seen it when I made my post saying "Why not wait two days, see if Foody is NKed or CCed, and then make a decision on foodcoats?" I think that is pretty obvious if you read my post itself.

I also did not feel anyone had made a good case on foodcoats, and generally felt like him being scum was about as likely as anyone being randomly assigned scum -- maybe slightly less than random just based on him being pushed by other people and about to be the Day 1 daykill.

Also, isn’t it interesting that foodcoats’s cheeky, confessedly BS fakeclaim warranted saving his life when he’s on the block, but sweet’s cheeky claims, which have apparently yielded more fruit so far, merit his death? I don’t think it was necessarily a wrong conclusion to be wary about killing foodcoats D1 (I felt the same), but Balki’s reasoning here just isn’t consistent.

That is not "interesting" because the foodcoats fake claim was totally different in character than the Sweetandcool Day 1 claims for the reasons I explained above. The foodcoats fake claim came at a time when a PR would actually claim to save his own life.

And the scum reasoning is a lot clearer. sweet is a viable miskill. (Note Jamie’s vote on sweet; I think Jamie is sincere and just frustrated with sweet. But there’s a clear appetite for killing sweet.) foodcoats was already signed sealed delivered after the Desperado fiasco, IMO; there wasn’t enough time to coalesce anywhere else. Balki positions himself against the D1 miskill, and if foodcoats doesn’t end up dead, foodcoats’s alignment remains a useful distraction for the mafia team.

I don't think this is a good point either. I mean, Sweet is a viable miskill at this point in the same way that anyone is this early in the day, but I feel I am going against the grain in making my case on Sweet. He was not a wagon in the last 8 or so hours of the day, and he does not seem to be on a lot of people's radar today. If you think Scum would be looking for likely miskills in this spot, that is a point against your case.

* * * * *

@President Eden, I think you are likely to be Town here, because in my experience the person who makes a case like this on me at around this point in a game is almost always (nay....is always) Town. The next time it's Scum trying to lead a charge on me Day 2 will be the first. But you're analysis is wrong. The biggest problem in it is that it assumes that Sweet's Day 1 fake claiming is just garden variety Day 1 fake claiming. That's incorrect, and most of your points flow offtrack from that initial wrong premise.

I appreciate the effort. I hope you'll try again.

[sweetandcool]

@Eden, I am going to respond point-by-point to your case. I know this will be a lot of text, but I hope you'll read it and engage with it. I am really writing it only for you because I doubt many others take the time to read it.

1. His case on sweetandcool doesn’t seem organic to me. For readability I’m snipping the actual text, but leaving the hyperlink quote because for some reason this is the only URL tag that works on the forum now (click the green up arrow to follow to the post):

Balki starts with an acknowledgment that sweetandcool is a wild and crazy guy who isn’t afraid of bold gambits or public opinion about them. He then speculates about sweet’s possible motivations… but seems to focus entirely on the personal satisfaction sweet is set to gain from his antics. You’d think sweet is just some egomaniac big brain chasing the dopamine hit of Discord literally-whos fanning his balls over his brilliance. And sure, I imagine like most smart people, sweet enjoys a good ego stroke.

But sweet also wants to win, and fervently believes the current town meta regarding fakeclaims is net negative EV. We just watched him go for several dubious fakeclaims in the last game that got him miskilled and could have been the source of profound embarrassment. Balki knows all this. Why doesn’t he even discuss the possibility? Why does he analyze it through the lens of some questionable psychoanalysis?

It seems like your first point here is that I fail to consider Sweet's fake claims last game. And your second point here is that my analysis is "questionable psychoabalysis."

On the first point, I am very much considering Sweet's prior fake claims and the profound embarrassment piece. These two paragraphs were in the middle of my analysis:

His gambit this game though looks different to me. He hard claimed Detective. Then hard claimed Desperado. Then hard claimed Detective. He did it all on a day when the real PRs would have no incentive to claim, and he did it assertively, without trying to avoid a daykill or vig shot.

To me -- this is "look at me" stuff that is very different than a normal Town!Sweet gambit, which is to role swap or fake a claim at a time when it makes sense, and has to be taken seriously. This is "look at me, look at me" for its own sake. And Sweet absolutely knew he was going to get eye rolls and frustration for it.

I don't think I can put it clearer than that. His claims this game were more of a rough facsimile, and timed in a way to garner eye rolls of a much different vigor.

This is the whole point. Jumping into the start of the first day and hard claiming Detective is something that no "real" Detective in his right mind would do. Later hard claiming Desperado and insisting you are not joking is a joke itself.

These is an absolutely distinct and divergent sweetandcool, and you saying that I failed to account for sweet's prior fake claims is...not your best work.

On your second point, I am not going to trumpet by psychological credentials. I have none. But when I am stuck in a hole of confusion in this game, I find it useful to think about the God thread, and imagine the different scenarios of emerging from the game, and hearing who was Town and who was Scum, and trying to think about what makes more sense. That is the simple exercise that I am applying here.

I think that Sweet's prior embarrassment supports my case. I think he is more likely to engage in this parody of his prior play if he has a punch line he can say at the end. The only punch line I can think of is: "ha, I was scum! Gotcha!"

Balki doesn’t even entertain the obvious tangible benefits of sweet’s behavior. When a townie draws PR-related attention to himself but leaves the outcome ambiguous, that confuses town and mafia. We tend to focus more attention on town confusion because it’s more acute, it’s felt by more players, and because mafia players are historically risk-averse, temperamentally conservative creatures. What’s often lost, outside of the most dramatic examples, is that real value exists in confusing the mafia. If sweet had been nightkilled out of uncertainty over his role and flipped VT, sparing obvtown Vecna for a cycle, that’s a win for town. Even eating a roleblock is a minor win for town (and lo and behold, sweet claimed that he did, with no contradiction yet).

Of course I entertain the abvious tangible benefits of townies fake claiming PRs. I was fake claiming PRs well before it was cool. I have beyond "entertained" these tangible benefits, I have taken them back to my place and made them breakfast in the morning.

What you are ignoring is that I find Sweet's Day 1 to be of a different character than a fake claim in the ordinary sense. It is a parody of a fake claim. It is a fake claim when the actual players in those roles would never actually claim. There was no reason for the Investigatoor the Desperado to claim Day 1 unless they were about to be daykilled and needed help off the gallows. So anyone popping off about being either, in a hard way or a soft way, is less apt to confuse mafia than someone who is remaining entirely silent about their roles. I don't think Town!Sweet would see this differently. I know from experience that Town!Sweet is very good at fake claiming in a way that actually confuses Mafia.

2. Balki is in the “sweet spot” for active mafia. I say that acknowledging that I am too, but that’s fine, it’ll work itself out. He’s present in the thread, engaging with ideas, decidedly not lurking… but he doesn’t stand out as one of the stronger voices in the room. A good contrast here is Chaqa, who is only slightly more active by post count but has been a much more forceful participant in the thread. This level of activity allows Balki to skirt claims that he’s lurking or not invested, but it’s also excused him from committal reads. His post on sweet that I’m criticizing is the strongest stance he’s taken all game, and it’s still got issues as noted earlier.

I think you'll agree that this point is extremely weak and was probably only added to increase the number count of your "points." I have had a lot of reads in this game. I'd say I have been more sure of my Town reads than my Scum reads, but I have been out front on my Town reads (e.g., Flavius, KPOP, Vecna, brainbomb). I also haven't been very sure of my scum reads, but that's Day 1 for you.

3. I mentioned that he’s avoided committal reads. Balki’s D1 was pretty ambivalent. (Fun fact, this was my word, then I removed it to avoid prejudging him, then I found that he described himself as ambivalent lol.) I don’t think his reasoning on not killing foodcoats holds up to scrutiny at all:

I was just screwing around. When Chaqa fake-GM-posted it triggered me.

Why not wait two days, see if Foody is NKed or CCed, and then make a decision on foodcoats?

Note the timestamps and remember that EOD was at xx:15 rather than xx:00. (16:15 or 16:00 for me but probably different for y’all.) Balki doesn’t want to kill foodcoats because foodcoats hardclaimed Sheriff. foodcoats then tells Balki it’s a joke. Balki then tries to marshal people onto rdrivera to buy time for foodcoats’s claim to resolve itself…? And in the meantime, rdrivera is a true null for Balki:

You guys still want to kill food after that assless chaps quip? I don’t.

I am feeling ambivalent.

##vote rdrivera. I have him at Null. But I feel like I will have him at Null seven days from now as well. Let’s do a solid for future Balki, and maybe he is scum.

So, I do see now that foodcoats retracted his Sheriff claim. I had not seen it when I made my post saying "Why not wait two days, see if Foody is NKed or CCed, and then make a decision on foodcoats?" I think that is pretty obvious if you read my post itself.

I also did not feel anyone had made a good case on foodcoats, and generally felt like him being scum was about as likely as anyone being randomly assigned scum -- maybe slightly less than random just based on him being pushed by other people and about to be the Day 1 daykill.

Also, isn’t it interesting that foodcoats’s cheeky, confessedly BS fakeclaim warranted saving his life when he’s on the block, but sweet’s cheeky claims, which have apparently yielded more fruit so far, merit his death? I don’t think it was necessarily a wrong conclusion to be wary about killing foodcoats D1 (I felt the same), but Balki’s reasoning here just isn’t consistent.

That is not "interesting" because the foodcoats fake claim was totally different in character than the Sweetandcool Day 1 claims for the reasons I explained above. The foodcoats fake claim came at a time when a PR would actually claim to save his own life.

And the scum reasoning is a lot clearer. sweet is a viable miskill. (Note Jamie’s vote on sweet; I think Jamie is sincere and just frustrated with sweet. But there’s a clear appetite for killing sweet.) foodcoats was already signed sealed delivered after the Desperado fiasco, IMO; there wasn’t enough time to coalesce anywhere else. Balki positions himself against the D1 miskill, and if foodcoats doesn’t end up dead, foodcoats’s alignment remains a useful distraction for the mafia team.

I don't think this is a good point either. I mean, Sweet is a viable miskill at this point in the same way that anyone is this early in the day, but I feel I am going against the grain in making my case on Sweet. He was not a wagon in the last 8 or so hours of the day, and he does not seem to be on a lot of people's radar today. If you think Scum would be looking for likely miskills in this spot, that is a point against your case.

* * * * *

@President Eden, I think you are likely to be Town here, because in my experience the person who makes a case like this on me at around this point in a game is almost always (nay....is always) Town. The next time it's Scum trying to lead a charge on me Day 2 will be the first. But you're analysis is wrong. The biggest problem in it is that it assumes that Sweet's Day 1 fake claiming is just garden variety Day 1 fake claiming. That's incorrect, and most of your points flow offtrack from that initial wrong premise.

I appreciate the effort. I hope you'll try again.

Too long, didn't read.

[President Eden]

I fully want to dive into your response, Balki, but I’m concerned a properly rigorous back-and-forth would quickly get unreadable for the audience. If I’m right and you’re mafia, then that’s exactly what you’d want. If I’m wrong and you’re town, you may still want that, but you’d probably rather us hash things out and persuade the audience too.

So I’m going to leave you with the “last word” (for now lol) and ask townies to weigh in with their concerns with my case and your response.

[brainbomb]

No id like to see this discussion.

Nothing else is happening anyway, I will read balki case in detail soon.

[sweetandcool]

I fully want to dive into your response, Balki, but I’m concerned a properly rigorous back-and-forth would quickly get unreadable for the audience. If I’m right and you’re mafia, then that’s exactly what you’d want. If I’m wrong and you’re town, you may still want that, but you’d probably rather us hash things out and persuade the audience too.

So I’m going to leave you with the “last word” (for now lol) and ask townies to weigh in with their concerns with my case and your response.

You and Balki write clearly. I don't mind reading properly rigorous content.

[brainbomb]

Yea so the problem with sweet is that he knows as mafia that dying day 1 doesnt harm his team usually when hes scum. In fact every time hes been mafia hes died day one and his team went on to win. He probably just decided here that this was a good idea; fake claim, try to mess around and look like his usual self - and then if he dies doing it “oh well, we usually win when I die anyway”

He doesnt know any better. Flush out the pr or die trying. And oops, oh well

[sweetandcool]

Yea so the problem with sweet is that he knows as mafia that dying day 1 doesnt harm his team usually when hes scum. In fact every time hes been mafia hes died day one and his team went on to win. He probably just decided here that this was a good idea; fake claim, try to mess around and look like his usual self - and then if he dies doing it “oh well, we usually win when I die anyway”

He doesnt know any better. Flush out the pr or die trying. And oops, oh well

I already caught the "PR" which is scum Bunny and his fake crumbs.

[brainbomb]

Way too much attention placed on his claims and less focus has been on just how lackluster and wolfy he has been all game. His reads are nearly non existant. He isnt fighting or analyzing much other than bare minimum. Town sweet keeps talking and keeps solving and keeps pushing ideas.

His play today is a white flag of defeat in my opinion

[brainbomb]

Town sweet wouldve declared several people scum by now and wouldve fought for it

[BunnyGo]

I’m here. Not at all caught up. Sorry, was busy couple days at home/work.

[BunnyGo]

Way too much attention placed on his claims and less focus has been on just how lackluster and wolfy he has been all game. His reads are nearly non existant. He isnt fighting or analyzing much other than bare minimum. Town sweet keeps talking and keeps solving and keeps pushing ideas.

His play today is a white flag of defeat in my opinion

Has he told us what his “scan” was?

[BunnyGo]

Yea so the problem with sweet is that he knows as mafia that dying day 1 doesnt harm his team usually when hes scum. In fact every time hes been mafia hes died day one and his team went on to win. He probably just decided here that this was a good idea; fake claim, try to mess around and look like his usual self - and then if he dies doing it “oh well, we usually win when I die anyway”

He doesnt know any better. Flush out the pr or die trying. And oops, oh well

I already caught the "PR" which is scum Bunny and his fake crumbs.

I made no crumbs. If you found any, that’s a statement about you.

[sweetandcool]

Way too much attention placed on his claims and less focus has been on just how lackluster and wolfy he has been all game. His reads are nearly non existant. He isnt fighting or analyzing much other than bare minimum. Town sweet keeps talking and keeps solving and keeps pushing ideas.

His play today is a white flag of defeat in my opinion

Has he told us what his “scan” was?

I was roleblocked. Not sure if I will try scanning brainbomb again or someone else.

[brainbomb]

Well its a weekend. Im gonna go fishing as this is boring as shit

[BunnyGo]

Way too much attention placed on his claims and less focus has been on just how lackluster and wolfy he has been all game. His reads are nearly non existant. He isnt fighting or analyzing much other than bare minimum. Town sweet keeps talking and keeps solving and keeps pushing ideas.

His play today is a white flag of defeat in my opinion

Has he told us what his “scan” was?

I was roleblocked. Not sure if I will try scanning brainbomb again or someone else.

Are you surprised?

##vote sweet

[President Eden]

Well, now that it’s been invited lol…

I will aim to keep things concise and readable. No promises though.

It seems like your first point here is that I fail to consider Sweet’s fake claims last game. And your second point here is that my analysis is “questionable psychoanalysis.”

It’s more that I think your weightings are off, and are off in a way that suggests a manufactured narrative rather than an organic train of thought.

It’s certainly true that sweet’s claims were hamfisted and difficult to take seriously. I didn’t take them seriously. But that fact also creates WIFOM about his identity as the actual PR. “No PR would do this” is exactly what you’d want mafia to think about you as a PR. And taking it one level down, “Wow, this guy who I know is town is really being showy about how he’s not a PR” is exactly what you’d want mafia to think about you as a VT. Especially if you’ve cultivated a reputation for unorthodox claim plays over recent games… I think this is a highly plausible account of why sweet might have done what he did. If your analysis seriously contemplated it, though, I don’t see where. You claimed it was different from how he normally fakeclaims as town, but that doesn’t mean it’s a mafia fakeclaim per se.

Meanwhile, when I asked you for the mafia motivations, we briefly discussed how things had played out for him. You described various benefits, and I dismissed them briefly earlier, but will explain why I don’t think they carry the weight they appear to carry with you:

Benefits would be these:

- He doesn’t have to talk much about alignments or do much solving/committing, he can go back to his fake claim crutch and react to people who reacted to him.
- He is going to earn some hard town reads for his “boldness.”
- It is an easy plan to execute.
- It may give him PR hunting leads
- When he is CCed, he can wriggle out of it with the guise of “Oh come on, I also hard claimed this other role....and I was doing it to get reactions…and…” whatever else.

- I think sweet’s been plenty committal and solving despite the circumstances—and you notably didn’t levy the complaint that he wasn’t committal or solving when you scumread him.
- The few hard townreads (what, me and who else?) are apparently outweighed by the scumreads (since he’s the lead wagon early).
- I’m not sure I agree that tightroping several fakeclaims in a meta so hostile to them is “easy.”
- He may have gotten PR hunting leads, sure. Ironically, he’s posted that he was finding “fake crumbs” from Bunny. I would think mafia actually trying to PR hunt with this tactic would keep those thoughts to himself, but maybe not.
- Being able to bail on a plan isn’t really a benefit to it per se. It may make the actual benefits less risky to pursue, but if he were worried about an escape plan, he could just do something else altogether.

It’s also notable that none of these really fit into a team-focused view of the game. How’s this helping his team? I recognize this isn’t the fairest question (if you’re town you wouldn’t really know; if you’re mafia then it’s moot), but to be as confident as you seem to be in sweet being mafia, I would expect some kind of vision for how his gambit fits in with the rest of the team.

Long story short, despite your objections, you seem to undersell the utility of sweet’s play as town and oversell it as mafia. And you seem very certain about it too. I suppose town could feel that way, but I would expect more caution. And mafia pushing an agenda certainly would (pretend to) feel this way, so at the least you’re failing to stake out a position that must come from town here. And I think it fits a lot more into what I imagine the mafia vision to be, which is aggressively pushing for a couple of early miskills to get their guns online and then volley their way to victory. You can afford to be a lot more aggressive in pushing sweet if you’re mafia and you should be feeling a lot of pressure to get this right if you’re town. Your behavior fits the former profile, IMO.


I know that was a lot, so I’ll keep my remaining responses brief:

I think you’ll agree that this point is extremely weak and was probably only added to increase the number count of your “points.”
[ensuing discussion about reads/progression omitted; click green arrow for review]

It’s certainly not the cornerstone of my argument, but I think the “middle, somewhat visible poster = mafia” heuristic is still useful. It’s the weakest point of course, which is why it’s in the middle where it’ll get skimmed

I do not gather that your townreads are committal at all, though. We can’t really know from the outside, and I guess they’re not being tested all that much since they’re not being broadly voted for.

Maybe you could update me (us? if anyone is still reading…?) with some more comprehensive reads so I can see how your view is developed. Cuz it seems kinda “grab bag” to me.

I’m also not sure how you get away with claiming sweet is not a viable or easy miskill here when he’s the lead wagon halfway through lol. Obviously plenty of time for that to change, but there’s ample appetite to kill him.


Ok, your turn!

[brainbomb]

Now im imagining Balki as a lawyer, arguing in court with two massive honey baked hams for hands and no fingers. And the entire jury are dogs that can barely contain themselves.

[sweetandcool]

President Eden, what's your opinion on role crumbing? Not scans, just role.

My understanding is that Town loves to go wild on voting those people out. Is that not true?