M 90: Shootout at the Pretty Good Corral

[brainbomb]

Continued less large post

Flavous

Im gonna be honest I do NOT like that food has not been on for 21 hours I would >prefer< if he was here to actually defend himself, he hasnt been here for half the day...

Demonrhk

Flav, Day 1
Ctrl + F 'food'
47 hits
You went from jumping up and down about the first claim to yelling about food to finally voting for him on 41. Third vote on the wagon. Riding coattails or too scared to own the wagon properly?

Rdr

Food is kind a coin flip to me, but I believe his wagon is mostly townies

Kotp

I'm confused now. food wagon has fizzled (slightly?), dip wagon is up. would someone please explain this? I see dip calling sweet scummier than food, which I think is total bull. I don't see anything else though. Then the wagon seemingly spontaneously appears, so can someone please explain to me what y'all are seeing???

Food I see more reasons laid out overall, notably flavius' pg 44 post. Food has also gone MIA (20+ hrs since last seen), and I don't like that. Maybe something out of game. Idk. but I don't like the extended absence, especially with a relatively big post of reasons to vote.

I have noticed that it seems there's thoughts of food/dip pairing (if one flips mafia, shoot the other), so perhaps there's no real difference in voting for either. I hope for clarification of some kind. Thank you.

Sweet

Food has been confusing to me, because he claims that I am obviously fake claiming, and it's NAI because I talked about how fake claims were not bad before this game.

But then he decides I am being anti-town and .just be voted. Which reads more of a policy vote rather than a sincere vote.

Still, on the whole he seems more Town. The natural interpretation to his response to my highly believable Desperado claim is that he believes it, rather than he was backing off to avoid being shot.

I think people pushing that narrative are actually pretty suspicious for it.

Food is Townlean. (If he happens to be Mafia then the people pushing that narrative look pretty good)
--------------------------------------------------​---------

Balki

You guys still want to kill food after that assless chaps quip? I don't.

I am feeling ambivalent.

##vote rdrivera. I have him at Null. But I feel like I will have him at Null seven days from now as well. Let's do a solid for future Balki, and maybe he is scum.

It seems odd that balki would require a dissertation and discovery documents on flavius but is willing to townread foodcoats for wearing assless chaps.

Kotp playing up being clueless like he did when bunny and food voted each other.

Sweet is one of few actually townreading food actively into eod

Bunny

I'd say about half of the food wagon is scummy too.

Later bunny finds the whole wagon on food scummy.

Chaqa

Cla​ssic mafia strategy to withdraw into the shadows when suspected/voted.

I recall Food being especially poor under pressure, so this jives.

Chaqa is just so not on point. Hes just trying hard to preserve the wagon rather than do anything useful during this. Very odd and scummy. Feels performative, the tone seems sarcastic, faked and totally contrived

[lfischl]

RIP Vecna

Catching up to the thread, just did a quick look at the VCA, @bunny, not sure if this has been answered but why did you flip from rdr to food right at the end?

[brainbomb]

01. brainbomb
02. FlaviusAetius scum
03. Jamiet99uk scum
04. sweetandcool null
05. DiplomacyAndwarfare dead
06. lfischl town
07. President Eden null
08. KingofthePirates town
09. Balki null
10. DemonRHK town
11. Hamilton Brian dead
12. worcej null
13. bozotheclown town
14. damo666 town
15. Foodcoats dead
16. Rdrivera2005 maybe town
17. bunnygo null
18. Vecna dead
19. chaqa scum

[lfischl]

RIP Vecna

Catching up to the thread, just did a quick look at the VCA, @bunny, not sure if this has been answered but why did you flip from rdr to food right at the end?

I'll explain my context on this, sorry if it has been answered. IF rdr is scum, could that vote right at the end been bunny saving rdr in case of late flips?

[President Eden]

We should kill Balki today.

LONG post coming, sorry, I don’t do these anymore but this time it’s worth it.

1. His case on sweetandcool doesn’t seem organic to me. For readability I’m snipping the actual text, but leaving the hyperlink quote because for some reason this is the only URL tag that works on the forum now (click the green up arrow to follow to the post):

[redacted]

Balki starts with an acknowledgment that sweetandcool is a wild and crazy guy who isn’t afraid of bold gambits or public opinion about them. He then speculates about sweet’s possible motivations… but seems to focus entirely on the personal satisfaction sweet is set to gain from his antics. You’d think sweet is just some egomaniac big brain chasing the dopamine hit of Discord literally-whos fanning his balls over his brilliance. And sure, I imagine like most smart people, sweet enjoys a good ego stroke.

But sweet also wants to win, and fervently believes the current town meta regarding fakeclaims is net negative EV. We just watched him go for several dubious fakeclaims in the last game that got him miskilled and could have been the source of profound embarrassment. Balki knows all this. Why doesn’t he even discuss the possibility? Why does he analyze it through the lens of some questionable psychoanalysis?

Balki doesn’t even entertain the obvious tangible benefits of sweet’s behavior. When a townie draws PR-related attention to himself but leaves the outcome ambiguous, that confuses town and mafia. We tend to focus more attention on town confusion because it’s more acute, it’s felt by more players, and because mafia players are historically risk-averse, temperamentally conservative creatures. What’s often lost, outside of the most dramatic examples, is that real value exists in confusing the mafia. If sweet had been nightkilled out of uncertainty over his role and flipped VT, sparing obvtown Vecna for a cycle, that’s a win for town. Even eating a roleblock is a minor win for town (and lo and behold, sweet claimed that he did, with no contradiction yet).

2. Balki is in the “sweet spot” for active mafia. I say that acknowledging that I am too, but that’s fine, it’ll work itself out. He’s present in the thread, engaging with ideas, decidedly not lurking… but he doesn’t stand out as one of the stronger voices in the room. A good contrast here is Chaqa, who is only slightly more active by post count but has been a much more forceful participant in the thread. This level of activity allows Balki to skirt claims that he’s lurking or not invested, but it’s also excused him from committal reads. His post on sweet that I’m criticizing is the strongest stance he’s taken all game, and it’s still got issues as noted earlier.

3. I mentioned that he’s avoided committal reads. Balki’s D1 was pretty ambivalent. (Fun fact, this was my word, then I removed it to avoid prejudging him, then I found that he described himself as ambivalent lol.) I don’t think his reasoning on not killing foodcoats holds up to scrutiny at all:

I don’t think we kill food here with his claim. We’ll learn more about that claim as time progresses.

Let’s kill rdrivera or Jamiet.

I was just screwing around. When Chaqa fake-GM-posted it triggered me.

Why not wait two days, see if Foody is NKed or CCed, and then make a decision on foodcoats?

Note the timestamps and remember that EOD was at xx:15 rather than xx:00. (16:15 or 16:00 for me but probably different for y’all.) Balki doesn’t want to kill foodcoats because foodcoats hardclaimed Sheriff. foodcoats then tells Balki it’s a joke. Balki then tries to marshal people onto rdrivera to buy time for foodcoats’s claim to resolve itself…? And in the meantime, rdrivera is a true null for Balki:

You guys still want to kill food after that assless chaps quip? I don’t.

I am feeling ambivalent.

##vote rdrivera. I have him at Null. But I feel like I will have him at Null seven days from now as well. Let’s do a solid for future Balki, and maybe he is scum.

Also, isn’t it interesting that foodcoats’s cheeky, confessedly BS fakeclaim warranted saving his life when he’s on the block, but sweet’s cheeky claims, which have apparently yielded more fruit so far, merit his death? I don’t think it was necessarily a wrong conclusion to be wary about killing foodcoats D1 (I felt the same), but Balki’s reasoning here just isn’t consistent.

And the scum reasoning is a lot clearer. sweet is a viable miskill. (Note Jamie’s vote on sweet; I think Jamie is sincere and just frustrated with sweet. But there’s a clear appetite for killing sweet.) foodcoats was already signed sealed delivered after the Desperado fiasco, IMO; there wasn’t enough time to coalesce anywhere else. Balki positions himself against the D1 miskill, and if foodcoats doesn’t end up dead, foodcoats’s alignment remains a useful distraction for the mafia team.

##VOTE Balki Bartokomous

[brainbomb]

##vote balki

Agreed on that chief

[brainbomb]

Deep breath brainbomb, obviously scumteam has decided to taunt you. Who do you think would think that would be funny?

It's also possible you and others were correctly suspecting the team due to erroneously suspecting Vecna.

It doesnt change much at all. But this is possible. More likely they thought vecna dying would make bozo look bad.

[brainbomb]

There always the possibility scum thinks my entire scumpool and why they seem connected totally falls apart when a part of that pool dies. But most of the scum are not so egotistical to base their entire decision process around what brainbomb thinks.

[sweetandcool]

Yeah I could sheep Eden here.

Sticking with Bunny though because I feel good about that and have reasoned through it, whereas voting Balki would be a pure sheep.

But count me willing EoD if it makes sense.

[brainbomb]

Bunny scum stock is rising for sure

[President Eden]

Balki and Bunny playing grab ass in the thread N1 has the potential stench of S/S. I’m intentionally withholding my associative reads until later, because I don’t want to dilute the argument with more speculative claims. But if you’re side-eyeing Bunny (and I agree you should at this point) then consider that they just make a bunch of sense as potential teammates.

[brainbomb]

Brainbomb: I don't know what else to say except, you're wrong.

I could see Jamie saying this knowing vecna was the nk. And I was close like maybe 2/4 or 3/4 on my scumreads. As in bunny-chaqa-jamie being tied together and flav is inno or duh vecna was.

But yea maybe flav-jamie-bunny-chaqa or jamie-balki-chaqa-bunny

[brainbomb]

The kill was probably decided before my case; and was probably not chaqas idea as he prefers saving kills. Vecna had to go because he would be a challenge to find the votes to kill and they thought he was sherrif

[Chaqa]

Brain just treating me as if I’m scum with no real reason given and ignoring me feels super weird.

[brainbomb]

Hows the baby chaqa?

[Balki Bartokomous]

We should kill Balki today.

LONG post coming, sorry, I don’t do these anymore but this time it’s worth it.

1. His case on sweetandcool doesn’t seem organic to me. For readability I’m snipping the actual text, but leaving the hyperlink quote because for some reason this is the only URL tag that works on the forum now (click the green up arrow to follow to the post):

[redacted]

Balki starts with an acknowledgment that sweetandcool is a wild and crazy guy who isn’t afraid of bold gambits or public opinion about them. He then speculates about sweet’s possible motivations… but seems to focus entirely on the personal satisfaction sweet is set to gain from his antics. You’d think sweet is just some egomaniac big brain chasing the dopamine hit of Discord literally-whos fanning his balls over his brilliance. And sure, I imagine like most smart people, sweet enjoys a good ego stroke.

But sweet also wants to win, and fervently believes the current town meta regarding fakeclaims is net negative EV. We just watched him go for several dubious fakeclaims in the last game that got him miskilled and could have been the source of profound embarrassment. Balki knows all this. Why doesn’t he even discuss the possibility? Why does he analyze it through the lens of some questionable psychoanalysis?

Balki doesn’t even entertain the obvious tangible benefits of sweet’s behavior. When a townie draws PR-related attention to himself but leaves the outcome ambiguous, that confuses town and mafia. We tend to focus more attention on town confusion because it’s more acute, it’s felt by more players, and because mafia players are historically risk-averse, temperamentally conservative creatures. What’s often lost, outside of the most dramatic examples, is that real value exists in confusing the mafia. If sweet had been nightkilled out of uncertainty over his role and flipped VT, sparing obvtown Vecna for a cycle, that’s a win for town. Even eating a roleblock is a minor win for town (and lo and behold, sweet claimed that he did, with no contradiction yet).

2. Balki is in the “sweet spot” for active mafia. I say that acknowledging that I am too, but that’s fine, it’ll work itself out. He’s present in the thread, engaging with ideas, decidedly not lurking… but he doesn’t stand out as one of the stronger voices in the room. A good contrast here is Chaqa, who is only slightly more active by post count but has been a much more forceful participant in the thread. This level of activity allows Balki to skirt claims that he’s lurking or not invested, but it’s also excused him from committal reads. His post on sweet that I’m criticizing is the strongest stance he’s taken all game, and it’s still got issues as noted earlier.

3. I mentioned that he’s avoided committal reads. Balki’s D1 was pretty ambivalent. (Fun fact, this was my word, then I removed it to avoid prejudging him, then I found that he described himself as ambivalent lol.) I don’t think his reasoning on not killing foodcoats holds up to scrutiny at all:

I don’t think we kill food here with his claim. We’ll learn more about that claim as time progresses.

Let’s kill rdrivera or Jamiet.

I was just screwing around. When Chaqa fake-GM-posted it triggered me.

Why not wait two days, see if Foody is NKed or CCed, and then make a decision on foodcoats?

Note the timestamps and remember that EOD was at xx:15 rather than xx:00. (16:15 or 16:00 for me but probably different for y’all.) Balki doesn’t want to kill foodcoats because foodcoats hardclaimed Sheriff. foodcoats then tells Balki it’s a joke. Balki then tries to marshal people onto rdrivera to buy time for foodcoats’s claim to resolve itself…? And in the meantime, rdrivera is a true null for Balki:

You guys still want to kill food after that assless chaps quip? I don’t.

I am feeling ambivalent.

##vote rdrivera. I have him at Null. But I feel like I will have him at Null seven days from now as well. Let’s do a solid for future Balki, and maybe he is scum.

Also, isn’t it interesting that foodcoats’s cheeky, confessedly BS fakeclaim warranted saving his life when he’s on the block, but sweet’s cheeky claims, which have apparently yielded more fruit so far, merit his death? I don’t think it was necessarily a wrong conclusion to be wary about killing foodcoats D1 (I felt the same), but Balki’s reasoning here just isn’t consistent.

And the scum reasoning is a lot clearer. sweet is a viable miskill. (Note Jamie’s vote on sweet; I think Jamie is sincere and just frustrated with sweet. But there’s a clear appetite for killing sweet.) foodcoats was already signed sealed delivered after the Desperado fiasco, IMO; there wasn’t enough time to coalesce anywhere else. Balki positions himself against the D1 miskill, and if foodcoats doesn’t end up dead, foodcoats’s alignment remains a useful distraction for the mafia team.

##VOTE Balki Bartokomous

Good. Eden likely Town.

[sweetandcool]

Brain just treating me as if I’m scum with no real reason given and ignoring me feels super weird.

Yeah I don't particularly like it, but I think you are both Town.

[brainbomb]

Would not shoot

Brainbomb: damo
Sweet: brainbomb
Worcej: balki
Eden: sweet
Chaqa: bunny

You may add one name to this list
Who would you not shoot
Top choice only

[brainbomb]

On second thought sweet is whining too much
##vote sweet

[President Eden]

Chaqa, your thoughts on Balki?