M 90: Shootout at the Pretty Good Corral

[Balki Bartokomous]

Balki, I’m really not following why you think sweet is scum. Can you walk me through that?

Yes.

But I do feel like I spelled it out fairly coherently in my EON post, so it might help if you ask me questions.

Basically, I am having a hard time seeing Town!Sweet using this hard claim everything all the time strategy, and drawing all of this frustration from players he respects. But I can see it more if there is another shoe to drop. The other shoe being -- "hey guys, I was scum the whole time, and you guys thought that I couldn't be becuase I was seeking the spotlight."

Also, if this is a scum strategy, it is easy to execute and it avoids a lot of talking about alignments and puzzling, which is stuff that I think Town!Sweet naturally feels compelled to do a lot more.

[Jamiet99uk]

Since I summoned Worcej I am going to return to ##Vote Sweet.

[Jamiet99uk]

I want to hear an explanation from Bunny.

More scumhunting from you, huh?

[Jamiet99uk]

I want to hear an explanation from Bunny.

More PR hunting from you, huh?

EBWOP

[Jamiet99uk]

Sweet, why is this your reaction to seeing possible town PR breadcrumbs? To call out the fact you think someone is crumbing a Town PR and demand they talk about it? And you were doing it at Night as well?

If it happens to be the case that you have noticed someone who might be a town PR, why are you trying so hard to expose them?

[sweetandcool]

Balki, I’m really not following why you think sweet is scum. Can you walk me through that?

Yes.

But I do feel like I spelled it out fairly coherently in my EON post, so it might help if you ask me questions.

Basically, I am having a hard time seeing Town!Sweet using this hard claim everything all the time strategy, and drawing all of this frustration from players he respects. But I can see it more if there is another shoe to drop. The other shoe being -- "hey guys, I was scum the whole time, and you guys thought that I couldn't be becuase I was seeking the spotlight."

Also, if this is a scum strategy, it is easy to execute and it avoids a lot of talking about alignments and puzzling, which is stuff that I think Town!Sweet naturally feels compelled to do a lot more.

I think the two big holes in your theory are:

1. I'm willing to be embarrassing as either alignment, particularly when I'm trying to make a point to help others improve their game.

2. Town already finds it hard not to DK me. This strategy has an incredibly high chance of causing me to be the D1 anyways, and if not then the D2 or D3. Like, I painted an inevitable DK on my back, in a game with Vigs no less. I would actually like to enjoy a game as Mafia for once.

[sweetandcool]

Sweet, why is this your reaction to seeing possible town PR breadcrumbs? To call out the fact you think someone is crumbing a Town PR and demand they talk about it? And you were doing it at Night as well?

If it happens to be the case that you have noticed someone who might be a town PR, why are you trying so hard to expose them?

I thought the hive mind concluded that players crumbing their role are actually scum.

Isn't that the principle that was espoused in M88 when Ham left obvious role crumbs? The only possible motivation is scum, right?

[President Eden]

Balki, I’m really not following why you think sweet is scum. Can you walk me through that?

Yes.

But I do feel like I spelled it out fairly coherently in my EON post, so it might help if you ask me questions.

Basically, I am having a hard time seeing Town!Sweet using this hard claim everything all the time strategy, and drawing all of this frustration from players he respects. But I can see it more if there is another shoe to drop. The other shoe being – “hey guys, I was scum the whole time, and you guys thought that I couldn’t be becuase I was seeking the spotlight.”

Also, if this is a scum strategy, it is easy to execute and it avoids a lot of talking about alignments and puzzling, which is stuff that I think Town!Sweet naturally feels compelled to do a lot more.

Evidently not, though, right? Given how poorly it’s been received. Granted, it had that effect on me specifically, but with webdip’s meta, that just seems like a very risky road to travel.

Let’s roll with your theory. What’s the bigger picture aim with this? Avoiding suspicion isn’t all there is to good mafia play, as you well know. And the benefit you describe would seem to accrue only to sweet and not to a team.

[sweetandcool]

Sweet, why is this your reaction to seeing possible town PR breadcrumbs? To call out the fact you think someone is crumbing a Town PR and demand they talk about it? And you were doing it at Night as well?

If it happens to be the case that you have noticed someone who might be a town PR, why are you trying so hard to expose them?

I thought the hive mind concluded that players crumbing their role are actually scum.

Isn't that the principle that was espoused in M88 when Ham left obvious role crumbs? The only possible motivation is scum, right?

I'm just trying to get straight the scenarios in the game where I am allowed to jump to conclusions as a matter of policy.

Being the immaculate player you are, Jamiet, I'm sure you could educate me on this matter.

Oh please teach me daddy.

[President Eden]

Sorry, that initial question wasn’t well written. “Evidently not” referring to the notion that sweet’s behavior would avoid him getting scumreads.

[sweetandcool]

Balki, I’m really not following why you think sweet is scum. Can you walk me through that?

Yes.

But I do feel like I spelled it out fairly coherently in my EON post, so it might help if you ask me questions.

Basically, I am having a hard time seeing Town!Sweet using this hard claim everything all the time strategy, and drawing all of this frustration from players he respects. But I can see it more if there is another shoe to drop. The other shoe being – “hey guys, I was scum the whole time, and you guys thought that I couldn’t be becuase I was seeking the spotlight.”

Also, if this is a scum strategy, it is easy to execute and it avoids a lot of talking about alignments and puzzling, which is stuff that I think Town!Sweet naturally feels compelled to do a lot more.

Evidently not, though, right? Given how poorly it’s been received. Granted, it had that effect on me specifically, but with webdip’s meta, that just seems like a very risky road to travel.

Let’s roll with your theory. What’s the bigger picture aim with this? Avoiding suspicion isn’t all there is to good mafia play, as you well know. And the benefit you describe would seem to accrue only to sweet and not to a team.

For all you know my Mafia Team could be extremely pissed with my D1 right now.

[sweetandcool]

President Eden seems to want to keep me alive in a very strange way.

I'll have to check him out

##VOTE President Eden

At least for now.

[President Eden]

Yes.

But I do feel like I spelled it out fairly coherently in my EON post, so it might help if you ask me questions.

Basically, I am having a hard time seeing Town!Sweet using this hard claim everything all the time strategy, and drawing all of this frustration from players he respects. But I can see it more if there is another shoe to drop. The other shoe being – “hey guys, I was scum the whole time, and you guys thought that I couldn’t be becuase I was seeking the spotlight.”

Also, if this is a scum strategy, it is easy to execute and it avoids a lot of talking about alignments and puzzling, which is stuff that I think Town!Sweet naturally feels compelled to do a lot more.

Evidently not, though, right? Given how poorly it’s been received. Granted, it had that effect on me specifically, but with webdip’s meta, that just seems like a very risky road to travel.

Let’s roll with your theory. What’s the bigger picture aim with this? Avoiding suspicion isn’t all there is to good mafia play, as you well know. And the benefit you describe would seem to accrue only to sweet and not to a team.

For all you know my Mafia Team could be extremely pissed with my D1 right now.

I’m pretty confident you don’t have a mafia team.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Balki, I’m really not following why you think sweet is scum. Can you walk me through that?

Yes.

But I do feel like I spelled it out fairly coherently in my EON post, so it might help if you ask me questions.

Basically, I am having a hard time seeing Town!Sweet using this hard claim everything all the time strategy, and drawing all of this frustration from players he respects. But I can see it more if there is another shoe to drop. The other shoe being – “hey guys, I was scum the whole time, and you guys thought that I couldn’t be becuase I was seeking the spotlight.”

Also, if this is a scum strategy, it is easy to execute and it avoids a lot of talking about alignments and puzzling, which is stuff that I think Town!Sweet naturally feels compelled to do a lot more.

Evidently not, though, right? Given how poorly it’s been received. Granted, it had that effect on me specifically, but with webdip’s meta, that just seems like a very risky road to travel.

Let’s roll with your theory. What’s the bigger picture aim with this? Avoiding suspicion isn’t all there is to good mafia play, as you well know. And the benefit you describe would seem to accrue only to sweet and not to a team.

Well, sweet is a frequent daykill target, so he wants to do something that is going to change that up. So he starts claiming roles, but does so in a way that feels not credible. He is essentially saying "HEY GUYS, SPOTLIGHT ON ME" in a way that makes many players conclude that Sweet absolutely cannot be scum.

Benefits would be these:

- He doesn't have to talk much about alignments or do much solving/committing, he can go back to his fake claim crutch and react to people who reacted to him.
- He is going to earn some hard town reads for his "boldness."
- It is an easy plan to execute.
- It may give him PR hunting leads
- When he is CCed, he can wriggle out of it with the guise of "Oh come on, I also hard claimed this other role....and I was doing it to get reactions...and..." whatever else.

In a way, the hard claim multiple roles thing is a nice way to go as scum. He has had some people (e.g. Flavius) who have seemed to believe his claim, while he has had other people (e.g. me and Bunny) who have not taken them seriously at all.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Balki, I’m really not following why you think sweet is scum. Can you walk me through that?

Yes.

But I do feel like I spelled it out fairly coherently in my EON post, so it might help if you ask me questions.

Basically, I am having a hard time seeing Town!Sweet using this hard claim everything all the time strategy, and drawing all of this frustration from players he respects. But I can see it more if there is another shoe to drop. The other shoe being – “hey guys, I was scum the whole time, and you guys thought that I couldn’t be becuase I was seeking the spotlight.”

Also, if this is a scum strategy, it is easy to execute and it avoids a lot of talking about alignments and puzzling, which is stuff that I think Town!Sweet naturally feels compelled to do a lot more.

Evidently not, though, right? Given how poorly it’s been received.

I mean -- Sweet survived Day 1. He might call that a win. But it is also hard to predict how these things are going to go, so I wouldn't evaluate it too much based on the results so far.

[bozotheclown]

If I hypothetically had a shot today, at the moment i would be shooting Bozo.

I don’t buy that he would miss my two largest posts of the games and only look at two of my reads lists on either side of those posts if he were reading

Although you made those posts between the two posts I cited, they were supposedly things you recorded primarily before the first post I cited, and therefore do not explain the changes in you reads during the pertinent time frame.

##VOTE Chaqa

[bozotheclown]

I am absolutely gutted about how D1 turned out.

I don't know if Ham specifically targeted Dip because I scumread Dip, but it's very clear he went along with the charade I had provided and shit at the 30 minute mark. And if he had hit scum it absolutely would have been epic.

Sorry for failing you Ham. I really thought Dip was Mafia.

Which means Dip really did get discouraged from trying to solve like last game. Which really depresses me, because he really tried last game and got massively scumread for actually trying to solve.

Food flipping Town isn't very surprising and I would have tried to push against it if I was available. But I'm not going to whine about it like I normally would because I wasn't super convicted about that read.

I haven't had a chance to assess the situation, but off the top of my head the main read that changes after Dip flipping is that worcej is no longer Townread and is more null.

I did not realize DiplomacyandWarfare got DKed for his town effort in M89, I also regret my part in pushing his wagon D1.

So SWEET and BOZO were the ones pushing the Dip wagon D1? You guys >tricked< Ham into shooting Dip and because he was flying under the radar thats who Ham shot >why< would you do that? >What< were your reasonings?

I thought DiplomacyandWarfare was a better DK than foodcoats, but it turned out they were equally bad. I did not advocate for anyone shooting D1.

[worcej]

Since I summoned Worcej I am going to return to ##Vote Sweet.

Can I go back to lurking again then Master?

[brainbomb]

Back from dinner.
Had steak and scallops, the scallops were probably the most overcooked ive ever seen. But it was decent.

[brainbomb]

https://youtu.be/cRLVgFNTnIg