M 90: Shootout at the Pretty Good Corral

[FlaviusAetius]

Ill even just drop that whole line of theory.

Lets just not even focus on m89 and stick to his weird defenses of chaqa his weird shading on me, and the fact he took credit for the case on foodcoats who is now a dead town

It was a >good< case and I didnt see >ANYONE< arguing against the >merits< of the case, if you disagreed with it why didnt you say >something<? Instead you just didnt want a runaway wagon, FINE. thats OK, but you didnt do anything to actually >stop< the food wagon

[brainbomb]

Ill even just drop that whole line of theory.

Lets just not even focus on m89 and stick to his weird defenses of chaqa his weird shading on me, and the fact he took credit for the case on foodcoats who is now a dead town

It was a >good< case and I didnt see >ANYONE< arguing against the >merits< of the case, if you disagreed with it why didnt you say >something<? Instead you just didnt want a runaway wagon, FINE. thats OK, but you didnt do anything to actually >stop< the food wagon

I led the counter wagon to stop food from dying.

[FlaviusAetius]

Talking about even just skills alone

Town vecna doesnt produce a list of 5 players and claim all four scum are in it only to have his entire list or most of his list die and flip town.

Hes so much better than that at catching mafia.

BB, D&W, Food, HB, Bozo

My current guess is that group contains all 4 scum

This is not town vecna
Kill him

You and Bozo are making terrible arguments fmpov.
D&W & Food were universally scumread for varying reasons.
HB was acting off, but it turned out to be because he was overly confident that he was never getting killed because he was the Desperado.

Im still fine with my senses picking up weird shit happening to all those slots. Its not like im always amazingly accurate on D1.

Besides, if I was scum, that list would much more likely contain 2-3 scum. Im sure you can do some more homework to confirm thats how I nearly always make said lists, but its irrelevant right now because im not scum.

brainbomb did >zero< research on >any< of your scum games because he's digging a TUNNEL you said >yourself< @brain that you have to look at >everything< so why arent YOU?

[FlaviusAetius]

Ill even just drop that whole line of theory.

Lets just not even focus on m89 and stick to his weird defenses of chaqa his weird shading on me, and the fact he took credit for the case on foodcoats who is now a dead town

It was a >good< case and I didnt see >ANYONE< arguing against the >merits< of the case, if you disagreed with it why didnt you say >something<? Instead you just didnt want a runaway wagon, FINE. thats OK, but you didnt do anything to actually >stop< the food wagon

I led the counter wagon to stop food from dying.

No no no, you led a wagon to >stop< food from being a runaway wagon, but you did >nothing< to convince >anyone< about why food was a bad wagon to be on, you just didnt want him to be the >only< wagon, makes SENSE. But you didnt try to >stop< his wagon

[dargorygel]

The Long Night will end in 30 minutes.

[brainbomb]

brainbomb did >zero< research on >any< of your scum games because he's digging a TUNNEL you said >yourself< @brain that you have to look at >everything< so why arent YOU?

Vecna also usually reads foodcoats correctly, catching him as scum in m53. Food is another player vecna talks about as town every game.

M48 vecna accurately townreads foodcoats day 1
M66 vecna accurately townreads foodcoats day 1
M67 scum vecna doesnt mention food day 1 later says:

he's one of those players where im usually one of the few people townreading him.

M86 accurately townreads foodcoats day 1
M87 scum vecna doesnt mention foodcoats - day 2 says

also im quite sure foodcoats this game is like a boeing

something something nuts, bolts, loose screws

M88 Scum Vecna scumreads foodcoats day 1

It feels like its very smooth, and not as messy as I like to think I remember foodcoats being.

M89 town vecna accurately reads foodcoats day 1

think this is the first game ever im liking foodcoats on d1.

maybe im just forgetting. I like foodcoats.

This seems to fit well within vecna desired early reads. He thinks he doesnt do it but he certainly has a penchant for accuracy.


All this research combined with my hamilton reasearch still give me a few tingly doubts mostly because I find food and hamilton town here. But vecna when he townreads food is very spot on. When he scumreads food its more in vecnas scum game to avoid any read at all than it is to come out swinging for food

I didnt do any research on Vecnas scumgames?
Youve said that three times now.

[DemonRHK]

Scum:
Flav
Bunny
Balki
rdr

Town:
brain
Vecna
sweet
Eden

I disagree with many people's thoughts on Bunny's late votes, there was never a risk of a tie with how bunbun moved. There was a lot of off and on of food there. When I first saw the vote, I thought it was an rdr save, but it may havbe been more of a clog the vote situation, and shading rdr was a bonus.

rdr is low activity at the best of times, and that is me ofa ll people saying that. His posts just make me feel like he's even less assed than usual to contribute. Was a late D1 wagon, but Bunny killed it last minute, making a possible link I want to look at more, and maybe get some eyes on.

Balki I felt came in hard, white knighting for Flav and I don't like it. Everything he says looks just a little off. Like the whole 'day of reckoning' struff. If we wait until D4 or D5 the game will already be over. Lowkey sinister imo.

Flav. What more can I say. I will fully admit that I'm tunneling him (again) and it's the manner that puts me off more than anything, but every post feels like secondhand ammunition. Just taking someone else's ball and running with it. Plus, he was sooo pround of being the one to start that food wagon riiiight up until the flip.

--

As for sweet, he's town methinks. It's a glorious shitshow of claims. I think it's just too deep he may as well own it. Not scum. Not helpful, maybe, but it keeps us talking, talking is good.

Vecna and Chaqa both feel like the down low solvers I'm used to. Brain is town, 1000% lock. I would not vote for him, even to save myself he is so town.

kotp and fish are super low impact. Not much to say imo.

Eden is giving me town HR vibes this game. Me likey.

bozo, damo, and worc are hard nulls. Half the time I am nodding along with them, the other half I want to yell at the monitor. I fully admit I am punting here.

Jamie. I was town on Jamie. Then I felt like Flav was using his posts like a tag team against people. Then I felt he was hunting and doing a good job, and that being used/defended/buddied isn't scummy by itself. Then brain starting making some points. I'm split.

Hope to see y'all on the other side, cowpokes.

[brainbomb]

Youre blatantly just lying or you actually think the things you are saying are somehow a reality

[brainbomb]

Im not gonna apologize for trying to lead a wagon away from food; but I will apologize to rdrivera for him being the victim of my attempt

[President Eden]

brain/Vecna seems TvT.

cooling on Bunny.

kotp, worc, bozo seem like decent shots

[brainbomb]

Killing bozo at this point would be chipeerocking the game.
Dont be ridiculous

[FlaviusAetius]

The recruitment had already occured N2. Which youre well aware of since you GM'd that game? Everyone in the game was aware of it, so no, I dont believe he was trying to play exactly like his scumgame that entire game just for an attempt at being recruited. The fact youre trying to make this exact argument sounds really weird to me.

The bevaviour continued exactly the same during D3, resulting in Flavius being misskilled because of it.

If you feel he's trying to fake that behaviour this game (as RHK is implying) id find your argument a lot more believeable. As it currently stands, flav is one of the last people id want to kill.

He didnt know if someone had been recruited. He sent me the message n3

Didnt you say earlier he sent that before the game started?

Either way, youre using some bloody messages sent to a GM as if its public knowledge that we all read up on and take in as canon.

The way youre making your arguments really needs a lot of work if this is coming from a town BB

Since we are making private messages PUBLIC here are mine;

Re: MAFIA QUESTION
Sent: Fri Jun 07, 2024 11:14 pm
From: brainbomb
Recipient: FlaviusAetius

FlaviusAetius wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 11:11 pm
brainbomb wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2024 7:01 pm
FlaviusAetius wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2024 6:53 pm
OK LMK if you cant answer this or not or whatever and I'll just ask it on the forum, but I know there's a place where you can se the votes live, where is that?
mafia.peterlund.se
My strategy is to get the tadpole this game, does that mean Im "not trying to win"(as town) and therefore against the rules? LMK
No. It falls into the unique play to advance a wincon in some way.

FIRST
Why did I ask for the website?
I didnt want people to not listen to me >even more< because I didnt even know where the website was.
SECOND
Why did I ask this question?
Well because >I wanted to be tadpoled< as I said in that game >most people wanted to be< my playstyle as I said was >never< going to change, the only way to tell if >anyone< is scum is by looking at their >content< of their messages NOT their general vibe

[FlaviusAetius]

Youre blatantly just lying or you actually think the things you are saying are somehow a reality

There was another post you made that didnt have the scumreads in them you only did that AFTER I told you you didnt even mention scum Vecna in your initial post, since I said we needed something to >compare too<

[brainbomb]

I rescind all line of questioning regarding personal messages from m89

It appears you did indeed ask to do that day 1. I thought it was later.

Thats a topic we can retire.

[FlaviusAetius]

Vecna as town in m86

I think scum is in [chaqa, jamiet, damo, HB] - sweet is still hard to read for me

As for the HB stuff; none of the things he has done is completely lock-scum.

But it is scummy, and he has done little to no redeeming posting. Not a single post id mark as even slightly towny.

Busy, or just uninterested scum? I dno

M83 vecna as town on HB

This post is actually very important I feel.

The second sentence.

HB says that him explaining himself to sweet is becoming the noise that lets the mafia coast - aka he really feels that he's being a distraction by talking to sweet.

I dont think HB ever says this as scum.

"oh yeah, me talking to my scum teammate is causing a distraction that lets the scum fly under the radar".

You just cannot make that shit up as scum.

Strong townlean on HB just for that stuff.

Just hoping I was indeed wrong on my gutfeelings on HB. Ive townread him falsely in previous games with similar bad reasoning, but I havent had any indications of him being a fake fucker this game like last game.

M81 Town Vecna on HB

do like this post from HB.

takes have some meat to em.

On further review HB is always one of Vecnas earliest reads as town. This appears to stem from a game where scum Hamilton fooled him.

M75

Like, if HB was indeed scum here, and I was scum with him, I would not be trying whatsoever to change your mind, and would just gladly eat that rope because there is no hope anyway.

The only reason im giving a slight fuck is because I dont want my prioritizing other things to cause town to loose this game by being too easy a target.

Ive discovered that town vecna does try to solve Hamilton consistently and has identified him accurately multiple times.


M69

Personally I usually prefer to get a read on HB/jamiet slots. Not that im trying to dissuage you, just letting you know im probably only voting there if its a runaway wagon to steal the item

Conclusion: Vecna does this as town every time he comes across Hamilton. I think this fits with his statement of wating to wagon Hamilton. Thus I think Vecna has meta on his side; and is in his towngame here.

You know this tells us nothing right? There is no SCUM Vecna here to compare too

RIGHT HERE, @brain you are making me think Im a >crazy< person I dont have the BEST memory but Im not crazy

[brainbomb]

I am the catcher in the rye.

[dargorygel]

Ok...
I did NOT walk the time back after 15 minute extension.

SO...
to be fair for anyone who was watching THAT (which makes sense...)
THE BOT TIME IS CORRECT

[FlaviusAetius]

Youre alot better at this. And usually you catch me and when you do catch me youll continue to keep needling me on things - when im actually mafia.

And here youre not able to do that on anything. I havent been mean to someone, which is what youve caught me on before. I already said id drop the m89 stuff and focus on why I became a scumread of yours seemingly right after I cased flavius.

It does seem like I either pushed someone the whole scumteam wanted to white knight or flav is just scum and you guys all werent expecting anyone to actually catch him

You didnt drop the m89 stuff so thats false
You WANT Vecna to tunnel you that makes no sense??
Maybe JUST maybe people are >defending< me because I was unjustly killed last game for the same >silly< reasons you are focusing me so hard for; why not just look at the content of my messages and lets argue over >that< you are on a >warpath< YET your actual reasons for voting me are all >wrong< >wrong< >wrong< read my response to it you'll see

[Balki Bartokomous]

Okay, one thought I'd like to leave you with if this is the last thing I post.

Been thinking a lot about the psychology of sweetandcool.

Sweet is a good player. He legit played one of the best Town games I have seen two games ago when he was Cop, his reads were right on the money, and he executed a role swap that essentially pushed Town into Auto-win.

I can see Sweet making a bold gambit as any alignment. He will take risks, spur discussion, grab the spotlight. All of that is NAI.

His gambit this game though looks different to me. He hard claimed Detective. Then hard claimed Desperado. Then hard claimed Detective. He did it all on a day when the real PRs would have no incentive to claim, and he did it assertively, without trying to avoid a daykill or vig shot.

To me -- this is "look at me" stuff that is very different than a normal Town!Sweet gambit, which is to role swap or fake a claim at a time when it makes sense, and has to be taken seriously. This is "look at me, look at me" for its own sake. And Sweet absolutely knew he was going to get eye rolls and frustration for it.

So what is Sweet's motivation? Is it some kind of weird reaction test? Does that make sense? Say something that makes no strategic sense to get people talking about you? If that's the Town!Sweet play, it is exceptionally unusual.

And beyond being unusual, it's kind of embarrassing. I am trying to picture Town!Sweet, going to Discord after this game, and talking to everyone about his strategy. I am having a really hard time picturing that happeneing.

But what if he is Scum!Sweet? Then he rolls up to Discord after the whole thing ends and says "Yeah, I just figured that if I went a littel crazy and started hard claiming all the rolls, nobody would expect I would call so much attention to myself unnecessarily as Scum. And it worked!"

Then he is respected and lauded.

I can see Sweet taking that kind of risk as Scum!Sweet. It's not a terrible play. It's really not that difficult to execute. It gives him a bit of a shield and an excuse for not engaging very hard in the scumhunting part of the game. And I think it has had a very predictable outcome so far -- namely that many people have considered Sweet untouchable for doing exactly this.

I don't see Town!Sweet taking this risk. If this gambit fails for Town!Sweet, it is a complete embarrassment.

I think that Scum!Sweet is much more likely.

If this is it for me, my legacy guess is Sweetandcool, Jamiet, rdrivera, and... Fish!

Good luck.

[FlaviusAetius]

I rescind all line of questioning regarding personal messages from m89

It appears you did indeed ask to do that day 1. I thought it was later.

Thats a topic we can retire.

Thank you