M 90: Shootout at the Pretty Good Corral

[FlaviusAetius]

Its like it came out of >left< field it was SUS

[brainbomb]

Post 613 on page 31 clearly cites examples of how vecna reads foodcoats when vecna is scum. It shows examples.

It seems like your initial reply was to argue vecna isnt scum in this game and thus the evidence was irrelevant.

Now you are adjusting your position to be that I didnt provide examples of vecna being scum in my research — even though its right there very well spelled out and organized?

[Chaqa]

You can't triple stamp a double stamp, and you can't hardclaim more than once. You really don't understand what a hard claim is if you keep changing it.

We need a new category -- Super Double Dog Hardest Joey Chestnut Claim -- for when Sweet really means it. But it only counts if he puts it in rainbow.

Oh man new Claim just dropped

[Jamiet99uk]

Can anyone summarize what Flav is saying? I can't read it between all the math symbols sprinkled in there.

He is saying:

Jes, Sweetandcool, estas via kulpo ke la nuraj homoj kontraŭ la Manĝa Vagono ne volis fuĝi. Neniu, eĉ ne Manĝo mem, prezentis kontraŭajn argumentojn. Eĉ mi (Flavius) estis hezitema, ĉar Manĝo ne estis eĉ enreta dum 20 horoj, malgraŭ farante multajn malpurajn aferojn. Poste, li revenis, kaj ne faris ion por defendi sin krom trakti la situacion kiel grandan ŝercon. Estis ridinda, kaj vi, Sweet, ne faris ion por malhelpi ion el tio.

Thank you for your admirable work, Jamiet.

What do you think about his statement? Do you think because I was AFK I should shoulder the blame of Food flipping? Or should Flav, who voted for Food?

I think you both carry some blame. Certainly I do not see it as starkly as Flavius purports to.

[FlaviusAetius]

For this post alone, I’m shooting you if I get the chance.

You think swapping roles with the desperado was desirable? An objective worth doing? You’re gutted it failed?

This is such a scum Bunny post. You gotta restrain yourself when you think you've found an easy target.

This exchange made me think sweetandcool and BunnyGo could both be mafia.

>How<? The general consensus among the town rn is that >sweet< has >got< to go

[Chaqa]

This long night has been a real drag but at least Vecna did some next-level posting before he gets N1’ed

I took "July 4 is not a game day" to mean we wouldn't be posting at all. I was not expecting to have to come back to a 25 page catchup.

Time to update my document as I reread

[Jamiet99uk]

Just reviewing the entire day, and I've caught a player blatantly crumbing Sheriff twice.

Care to explain yourself Bunny?

Is this some PR hunting shit right here, or what?

[brainbomb]

This long night has been a real drag but at least Vecna did some next-level posting before he gets N1’ed

I took "July 4 is not a game day" to mean we wouldn't be posting at all. I was not expecting to have to come back to a 25 page catchup.

Time to update my document as I reread

Its okay we know maf chat already told you what to be aware of

[Chaqa]

NOTHING of your vote came from Chaqa? I find that hard to believe it basically came RIGHT after Chaqa made the case on him

Flavius attempting to give chaqa credit for my push on eden, builds up chaqa, shades me and makes it seem like chaqas homework on eden is valid - without ever saying if he himself agrees that eden is scum

I dont even REMEMBER Chaqa's case on Eden all I remember is that >you< said Eden was scum and it was ODD you didnt even >comment< on anything Chaqa said

I thought Eden was defending Food in a weird way, but since Food flipped town Eden being scum is severely less probable.

[Chaqa]

This long night has been a real drag but at least Vecna did some next-level posting before he gets N1’ed

I took "July 4 is not a game day" to mean we wouldn't be posting at all. I was not expecting to have to come back to a 25 page catchup.

Time to update my document as I reread

Its okay we know maf chat already told you what to be aware of

lol ok

[Jamiet99uk]

This long night has been a real drag but at least Vecna did some next-level posting before he gets N1’ed

Yeah, I have to say I had serious suspicions about Vecna earlier, but in his earnest responses to Brainbomb and Bozo he has pretty much obvtowned if you ask me.

[FlaviusAetius]

Working on my case on Jamie-Vecna-Chaqa-Flavius scumteam with bunny also as a possibility if im wrong about one of these.

i was halfway written and lost the post on mobile but the idea centers around Jamie lightly resisting wanting to push chaqa,

It depends on the overall level of activity in any given game.

Lurking is not just low posting, it's low posting whilst also seeming to have an eye on the game.

As to question 2:
Worcej, Lfischl, maybe Eden.

He does encourage me to vote chaqa but does not seem willing to join and uses an out of game reason to give day 1 pass to chaqa.

—-later—/

flavius then misrepping my statements, chaqa showing up and claiming flavius is leading the conversations, and vecna trying to defend flavius and scumreading all the people who he normally accurately reads day 1 but gets them all wrong in a rare fail.

The first quote is:

↑brainbomb: "Okay well there were no survivors. Just an inflatable man.

So this seems to be tilting sideways quite fast. Never was I..."
I dont understand how we can start a conversation on lurkers without even KNOWING whose a lurker yet or not? So far we just have chaqa confirmed lurker because chaqa isnt going to be on much D1 as explained, who else? WHO KNOWS...thats why we dont go after lurkers D1 its just sillly

-flavius prefedending chaqa that his reasons for not being around are true but insta trying to pivot to any other lurker to talk about.

Chaqa on my push on flavius

Weirdly bad take from brain

I quite strongly disagree with you on this one. I think Flavius has been very productive and driving conversation.

If anyone here is all carbs, it's you.

Chaqa replies to demonrhk saying Flavius is leading the conversations and steering the game. Which mostly consists of flav repeating foodcoats is scum, sweet is lying, and brainbomb is inconsistent.

So this looks scummy by chaqa.

SEE @brain chaqa is NO longer a lurker because chaqa is going to start talking! YOU CANT KNOW whose a lurker and whose NOT a lurker until D2

Flavius attempting to remove reasons to look at chaqa

You know this tells us nothing right? There is no SCUM Vecna here to compare too

Flavius attempting to hard push an agenda that any research on vecna habits is void because vecna isnt scum here. Stated seemingly as a fact rather than any reasoning given for why.

Part 2 coming soon

I like this theory, but Vecna and Chaqa could have been pocketing Flavius because he was pushing foodcoats, who Vecna and Chaqa were trying to set up as a counter wagon to Jamie. I also like BunnyGo as the alternative.

What about a Vecna/Chaqa/Jamie/BunnyGo mafia team? Does anyone have arguments against it?

This argument >doesnt< make sense because the Jamie wagon was only created as it >always< does is because he was an unpleasant fellow and then it fell apart just as it >always< does. He WAS one of the people who were sus on the sweet wagon but I dont thin ANYONE on that wagon now is mafia. Soon Im going to >look< to see who pushed Dip and therefore >convinced< Ham to shoot him. >THIS< person is who made D1 so bad and they gotta go

[FlaviusAetius]

I am absolutely gutted about how D1 turned out.

I don't know if Ham specifically targeted Dip because I scumread Dip, but it's very clear he went along with the charade I had provided and shit at the 30 minute mark. And if he had hit scum it absolutely would have been epic.

Sorry for failing you Ham. I really thought Dip was Mafia.

Which means Dip really did get discouraged from trying to solve like last game. Which really depresses me, because he really tried last game and got massively scumread for actually trying to solve.

Food flipping Town isn't very surprising and I would have tried to push against it if I was available. But I'm not going to whine about it like I normally would because I wasn't super convicted about that read.

I haven't had a chance to assess the situation, but off the top of my head the main read that changes after Dip flipping is that worcej is no longer Townread and is more null.

I did not realize DiplomacyandWarfare got DKed for his town effort in M89, I also regret my part in pushing his wagon D1.

So SWEET and BOZO were the ones pushing the Dip wagon D1? You guys >tricked< Ham into shooting Dip and because he was flying under the radar thats who Ham shot >why< would you do that? >What< were your reasonings?

[brainbomb]

01. brainbomb

02. FlaviusAetius scum for his attempts to misconstrue peoples talking points. Flav acts as a buzzard; hovering around minutae looking for something to clamor at and try to point to in order to shade others. Lacking much depth in his posts seeking more to frame things in a negative way.

03. Jamiet99uk scum for spamming hundreds of posts but not finding enough things to push people on. Seems very devoid of actual scumreads. Awkward inconsistencies regarding lurkers and trying to provide confusing stances on what a lurker is. Overall feels not involved in hunting despite 230 posts day 1.


04. sweetandcool scum; probably just not helping here because he doesnt want to hunt or help town. Ive seen very little interrogations or cases from sweet. Low analytics and all about his nonstop pr claims


06. lfischl town because he is sticking his neck out for people. He is trying to solve. You can tell hes active and is actually trying

07. President Eden no idea. Doesnt feel like an ally or have much to say, isnt talking to me about my reads or even refuting me scumreading him.

08. KingofthePirates town. Ive felt strongly he is town for his repeated tries to get answers from food and bunny d1

09. Balki no idea. Always just ignoring my posts or asking me to provide impossible things that would take hours.

10. DemonRHK town but could just be lingering in my shadow. Ive felt good about rhk because hes been an ally.


12. worcej no idea but lean town just for sheer fact he hasnt pinged me

Top town
13. bozotheclown
14. damo666

These two both feel like towns leadership

16. Rdrivera2005 reaction to nearly dying seemed legit and hes maybe town

17. bunnygo no idea. I always find bunny to be somewhat challenging because he shoots me down whenever possible. Slight scumlean but annoying me isnt scummy necessarily.

These two are scum and need to die asap:
18. Vecna
19. chaqa

[FlaviusAetius]

##Vote Sweetandcool

I smell bullshit...

Strange progression by Jamiet here.

His initial response to Sweet and cool is "WHY U FAKECLAIM"

His second response is meme'ing.

Then people start being suspicious over sweetandcool and suddenly jamiet is voting there?

Ive known jamiet to be many a thing, but being a sheep is not one of them.

Resolute judgement jamiet-style, this is not

##vote jamiet

Vecna's reason for voting for Jamie seem OK, but he does not follow up on it and several times tries to get someone to start a foodcoats wagon while still voting for Jamie.

I dont >like< people who throw their vote around like its nothing, but >if< you start suspecting someone how can you >not< start voting for them as well??

[brainbomb]

This long night has been a real drag but at least Vecna did some next-level posting before he gets N1’ed

Yeah, I have to say I had serious suspicions about Vecna earlier, but in his earnest responses to Brainbomb and Bozo he has pretty much obvtowned if you ask me.

I think his responses were pretty terrible actually. They just felt uneven and relied too much on posture. The facts matter. Vecna failed in the facts dept and must die.

The facts of vecnas guilt are simple
He stated he scumread me because I tried to push a foodcoats counter wagon

But his own scumreads were dip and war who was the counter wagon.

It was 5-5 at the time.

He had bozo as scum despite bozo being in the dip and war wagon also.

He then applauds foodcoats and encourages a chaqa wagon

And then when damo votes the food wagon vecna leaves the thread.

Now to reiterate some things happened here
- ascribes that brainbomb is guilty to push a counter wagon to foodcoats
- he himself lists the main counter wagon to foodcoats as scum
-lists someone on the main counterwagon as also guilty
- states it would be hilarious to drive up a chaqa wagon

[FlaviusAetius]

Apparently questioning Sweet, even in jest, makes Bunny and Worcej immediately chainsaw me.

That's interesting.

well now IM questioning you for doing it in JEST??? Sweet did a seriously sus thing here and you are walking it back already not a good look

In general it is a bad idea to vote for a claimed PR where there is no CC.

I was doing this.

Jamie posted this was a bad idea.

Then Jamie did it too.

That is all.

The thing you dont understand is that we dont even need a CC here then. Sweet will be DISCOVERED N1 and we can off him D2 if he proves out to be a fake. It doesnt make SENSE that you are on his wagon right now and you need to get OFF. All three of you on his wagon right now look super sus

He has already hardclaimed a previous role, so he cannot hardclaim another.

##Vote Sweet
##End

We will get Food later, I guess.

NO havent you ready my arguments on this yet? You CANT vote for sweet he is claiming something that is EASILY deducable after D1. Why would YOU vote for food and then do the exact same thing food is doing that made me think he is scum in the first place??

Ah I see theres a foodcoats wagon.

Excellent

##vote foodcoats

I think I specifically mentioned why I am voting for food and I specifically mentioned that I wanted to know why YOU found food scummy, you did it from basically the JUMP. >Why?<

Flavius was wrong about foodcoats, but he pointed out a number of questionable things in real time D1, including these things from Jamie, BunnyGo, Chaqa, and Vecna.

It is possible Flavius was distancing from some of these while pushing a mis-kill of foodcoats, but I don't think that is what was going on.

You dont understand the >reasoning< WHY I was voting food, a big part of it (also other stuff) was that he was on the >sweet< wagon THAT was my starting point, people who are >also< on the sweet wagon were ALSO sus to my estimation and so I >looked< at >who< was the most sus of them all that was FOOD

[sweetandcool]

Working on my case on Jamie-Vecna-Chaqa-Flavius scumteam with bunny also as a possibility if im wrong about one of these.

i was halfway written and lost the post on mobile but the idea centers around Jamie lightly resisting wanting to push chaqa,



He does encourage me to vote chaqa but does not seem willing to join and uses an out of game reason to give day 1 pass to chaqa.

—-later—/

flavius then misrepping my statements, chaqa showing up and claiming flavius is leading the conversations, and vecna trying to defend flavius and scumreading all the people who he normally accurately reads day 1 but gets them all wrong in a rare fail.

The first quote is:


-flavius prefedending chaqa that his reasons for not being around are true but insta trying to pivot to any other lurker to talk about.

Chaqa on my push on flavius




Chaqa replies to demonrhk saying Flavius is leading the conversations and steering the game. Which mostly consists of flav repeating foodcoats is scum, sweet is lying, and brainbomb is inconsistent.

So this looks scummy by chaqa.



Flavius attempting to remove reasons to look at chaqa



Flavius attempting to hard push an agenda that any research on vecna habits is void because vecna isnt scum here. Stated seemingly as a fact rather than any reasoning given for why.

Part 2 coming soon

I like this theory, but Vecna and Chaqa could have been pocketing Flavius because he was pushing foodcoats, who Vecna and Chaqa were trying to set up as a counter wagon to Jamie. I also like BunnyGo as the alternative.

What about a Vecna/Chaqa/Jamie/BunnyGo mafia team? Does anyone have arguments against it?

This argument >doesnt< make sense because the Jamie wagon was only created as it >always< does is because he was an unpleasant fellow and then it fell apart just as it >always< does. He WAS one of the people who were sus on the sweet wagon but I dont thin ANYONE on that wagon now is mafia. Soon Im going to >look< to see who pushed Dip and therefore >convinced< Ham to shoot him. >THIS< person is who made D1 so bad and they gotta go

Lol, your agenda here is pretty transparent.

[sweetandcool]

I am absolutely gutted about how D1 turned out.

I don't know if Ham specifically targeted Dip because I scumread Dip, but it's very clear he went along with the charade I had provided and shit at the 30 minute mark. And if he had hit scum it absolutely would have been epic.

Sorry for failing you Ham. I really thought Dip was Mafia.

Which means Dip really did get discouraged from trying to solve like last game. Which really depresses me, because he really tried last game and got massively scumread for actually trying to solve.

Food flipping Town isn't very surprising and I would have tried to push against it if I was available. But I'm not going to whine about it like I normally would because I wasn't super convicted about that read.

I haven't had a chance to assess the situation, but off the top of my head the main read that changes after Dip flipping is that worcej is no longer Townread and is more null.

I did not realize DiplomacyandWarfare got DKed for his town effort in M89, I also regret my part in pushing his wagon D1.

So SWEET and BOZO were the ones pushing the Dip wagon D1? You guys >tricked< Ham into shooting Dip and because he was flying under the radar thats who Ham shot >why< would you do that? >What< were your reasonings?

You tricked Town into voting Food.

[Jamiet99uk]

03. Jamiet99uk scum for spamming hundreds of posts but not finding enough things to push people on. Seems very devoid of actual scumreads. Awkward inconsistencies regarding lurkers and trying to provide confusing stances on what a lurker is. Overall feels not involved in hunting despite 230 posts day 1.

I scumread Sweetandcool and have made this very clear.

I also scumread Worcej.

I was scumreading Vecna but following tonight's exchanges, I no longer do.

As for "trying to provide confusing stances on what a lurker is" that is utter bollocks; what I was doing was clarifying the fact that lurking is not just a matter of being the lowest poster. I felt that was a useful think to mention, thank you very much.