M 90: Shootout at the Pretty Good Corral

[brainbomb]

Town flavius looks acts and feels at all times like a bombastic extra scumteam member who provides nothing to town other than trivial distraction gotcha questions. At best he would survive to end of game and miskill someone for putting a comma in a sentence instead of a period

[FlaviusAetius]

I am absolutely gutted about how D1 turned out.

I don't know if Ham specifically targeted Dip because I scumread Dip, but it's very clear he went along with the charade I had provided and shit at the 30 minute mark. And if he had hit scum it absolutely would have been epic.

Sorry for failing you Ham. I really thought Dip was Mafia.

Which means Dip really did get discouraged from trying to solve like last game. Which really depresses me, because he really tried last game and got massively scumread for actually trying to solve.

Food flipping Town isn't very surprising and I would have tried to push against it if I was available. But I'm not going to whine about it like I normally would because I wasn't super convicted about that read.

I haven't had a chance to assess the situation, but off the top of my head the main read that changes after Dip flipping is that worcej is no longer Townread and is more null.

HONESTLY, what have you said besides something involving your fakeclaims this game? Its been the entire ire of your discussions and has taken up so much >useless< space, how can you say you would have pushed back against the food wagon when you had the >opportunity< to disagree with the arguments being made against him and did nothing. The food wagon was NOT a surprise.

Brainbomb, you think scum Flav would purposely pick a fight here?

This post is cruel and so much

Im not >trying< to be cruel, but its the TRUTH, you havent done much of anything besides your fakeclaiming >nonsense< you need to >change< and NOW

[FlaviusAetius]

Im beginning to think NO ONE on the sweet wagon was mafia

I feel like the Sweet wagon was a town-motivated wagon and would have been the right choice.

You did the same >exact< things food did you dont GET to say that and have >yet'< to explain anything!

[Balki Bartokomous]

Dont ask someone to spoonfeed you something you can take five minutes to go review in peterbot yourself

What Vecna means when he says “you have the burden” is that you are the one asking others to read Flavius as Scum based on meta, and so if you want to be taken seriously, you should have more to your argument than “he plays this way as scum.” If you want anyone to be persuaded, you at least have to get to “he does this as Scum, and he doesn’t do it when he’s Town.

Of course anyone can do a meta deep dive on any player. It doesn’t take five minutes, it takes an incredible amount of time to do it right, and it is often a less efficient use of time than just reading this thread closely.

So — I am going to ask you to defend your meta reads with meta sometimes, and I am not going to do a meta deep dive every time you have a meta read that appears half-baked.

[brainbomb]

Ive already done this balki.
This already was presented

[FlaviusAetius]

Sorry, finally got to catch up with an investigator in my office who’s been busy for a while lol.

I see we got foodcoats. That’s fine I guess.

I’m not sure I agree with damo’s claim that not all four scum were on the two wagons there. Especially because the most likely mafia out of rdr, Jamie, sweet is probably rdr to me… and he ended up being a counterwagon which would make it odd that he wouldn’t vote to save himself. Idk, just doesn’t add up. Seems pretty reasonable to think all four could have been on the lead wagons.

I still think KOTP is a good kill here. This doesn’t really change my view about the foodcoats wagon or the people on it.

Why was it fine?

This is a strange reaction from President Eden to a Town death.

Killing town is statistically likely D1. foodcoats was widely suspected by several people I townread and didn’t do much to fight his own death IMO (lots of goofing around with obvious fakeclaims while on the block as a lead wagon). Obviously I’d rather have hit mafia, but it is what it is.

NO, the >real< problem with D1 was not thst we attacked food >but< that HB killed Di[ >whoever< convinced him of doing THAT was >really< wrong and >needs< to be investigated

[brainbomb]

Why does someone have to back up their scumread if its meta based; but saying on vibe hes just like his usual self - they dont have to back that up?

[FlaviusAetius]

I am absolutely gutted about how D1 turned out.

I don't know if Ham specifically targeted Dip because I scumread Dip, but it's very clear he went along with the charade I had provided and shit at the 30 minute mark. And if he had hit scum it absolutely would have been epic.

Sorry for failing you Ham. I really thought Dip was Mafia.

Which means Dip really did get discouraged from trying to solve like last game. Which really depresses me, because he really tried last game and got massively scumread for actually trying to solve.

Food flipping Town isn't very surprising and I would have tried to push against it if I was available. But I'm not going to whine about it like I normally would because I wasn't super convicted about that read.

I haven't had a chance to assess the situation, but off the top of my head the main read that changes after Dip flipping is that worcej is no longer Townread and is more null.

I think you are probably delighted with how D1 turned out.

Your multiple fakeclaims absorbed a lot of the day, turned Damo into your loyal cheerleader for some reason, and contributed to three town deaths and a grand total of 0 Mafia being caught.

Assuming you are scum, great performance, bravo.

I did really good work. We just gotta solve the game now. It's not my fault y'all voted Food who was a pretty poor wagon.

YES, it >is< your fault the only people against the food wagon >just< didnt want a runaway wagon >no one< not even food himself presented COUNTER ARGUMENTS, even >I< was hesitant cause food wasnt even >on< for 20 hours despite doing a bunch of scummy stuff >then< he returned and did >nothing< to defend himself besides treating it like one >big joke< it was ridiculous and you DID NOTHING to prevent >any of that<

[sweetandcool]

it was mainly the wagon on Worcej that turbo'd in there.

Low-hanging fruit wagon that just looks to be an easy crowd-pleaser.

I did not have any person or pusher in mind when making that statement, just a general gut feeling that there was an attempt to see what else could get traction.

It seemed like you were referring to something more recent. Why the worcej wagon and not the DiplomacyandWarfare wagon?

Did that even pop up already when I made the comment? im not sure anymore.

Anyways, that wagon I understand more clearly. It was night & day with his play from last game.

Why do you think that is alignment indictive? Am I playing similar to last game? Does that make me Town/Scum?

[FlaviusAetius]

TSA: except if you are Sweet. Sweet should hard claim Lawman right now.

You >cant< know if you are lawman until your gun loads at the start of the day, sweet >cant< know if he is lawman yet so therefore he >cant< claim right now arent you mr. I know the setups, >how< did you miss this?

[Balki Bartokomous]

Why does someone have to back up their scumread if its meta based; but saying on vibe hes just like his usual self - they dont have to back that up?

You don't have to back up your read. I am just explaining why it is not persuasive to me and what would make it more persuasive.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Ive already done this balki.
This already was presented

If you've already done this and I just haven't seen it, then I'd appreciate a post number or a quote and I'll read it.

I'm going to go get some sunshine!

[sweetandcool]

Yes, I also think [BunnyGo] parroting Flavius' writing style is extremely suspicious and since it is not in the context of a joke or communication with Flavius it may well be due to them being teammates and Flavius' writing style rubbing off on him.

Sweetandcool, can you speak more about how find this “extremely suspicious”? You think that BunnyGo was speaking with Flavius in a Mafia thread, and in doing so, BunnyGo subconsciously began writing like Flavius, and then began writing like Flavius in the main game thread involuntarily?

Is that ever something you have observed before or heard about? Why wouldn’t it happen to other players who speak with Flavius in the main thread? Would they be at risk of catching this affliction too?

Also, is this actually something you find to be “extremely suspicious” or is it something you made up?

Perhaps my wording is a bit of an exaggeration. But yes, that is what I was proposing. I have yet to see someone parrot his style except in jest.

Bunny suddenly doing it in a serious context that is completely removed from Flavius is very strange. Being in Mafchat with him would be a very natural explanation.

Of course, I can't base an entire case on it. I still need to examine both players more closely before making a real conclusion.

[sweetandcool]

This is why chaqa is obv scum:

I quite strongly disagree with you on this one. I think Flavius has been very productive and driving conversation.

Chaqa would not think flavius is productive and certainly as of NOW should acknowledge that flavius was driving the game off a cliff. This needs to be addressed by chaqa.

I don't think this is a convincing argument in itself. People view things differently.

Like I view my shenanigans D1 as helpful and generating interesting content. Others view it as clogging the thread and a waste of Town energy.

So would that make me scum or the people that hated my play scum? If Chaqa likes Flav's play does that really make him scum? Or just someone with a viewpoint that happens to be opposite of yours?

[Vecna]

It seemed like you were referring to something more recent. Why the worcej wagon and not the DiplomacyandWarfare wagon?

Did that even pop up already when I made the comment? im not sure anymore.

Anyways, that wagon I understand more clearly. It was night & day with his play from last game.

Why do you think that is alignment indictive? Am I playing similar to last game? Does that make me Town/Scum?

And likewise if you were wagoned D1 I wouldnt have lifted a finger to stop it.

[sweetandcool]

HONESTLY, what have you said besides something involving your fakeclaims this game? Its been the entire ire of your discussions and has taken up so much >useless< space, how can you say you would have pushed back against the food wagon when you had the >opportunity< to disagree with the arguments being made against him and did nothing. The food wagon was NOT a surprise.

Brainbomb, you think scum Flav would purposely pick a fight here?

This post is cruel and so much

Im not >trying< to be cruel, but its the TRUTH, you havent done much of anything besides your fakeclaiming >nonsense< you need to >change< and NOW

Not happening, since I am Sheriff. Gotta be authentic.

[bozotheclown]

Have any of my answers actually lead to a change in your perception of my alignment?

Which answers were the most impactfull? Which answers did you think I was more likely to be scum?

I do not think anything has been compelling one way or the other.

To summarize why I think you could be mafia, independent of anyone else, you picked one player early to scum read for questionable/unexplained reasons, and spent the day making sure they were the DK:

Quick balki, he's trying to befriend you.

(I actually do think theres a decent shot foodcoats is scum here)

Someone borrow me their gun and shoot foodcoats please

I take offense to saying it was completely unexplained. (it only was in the initial 10-12h of the game)

But if I look past that part....isnt that the entire point of this game?

That is not typically how you handle D1 as town.

Ah I see theres a foodcoats wagon.

Excellent

##vote foodcoats

Food for thought

vecna in m88

Day-1 01:31
page 32 / orig ##vote Worcej

Im not completely convinced I should disregard the brainbomb slot entirely, but his little joyfull moments at my expense are probably more likely to come from town.

Bunny/Worcej/Foodcoats/HB are all people I want to vote.

I wonder if scum vecna just knows hb and food are easy people to scumread

I soul townread foodcoats on d1 last game, and stuck with it all game. The rest of the game was scumreading him basically.

Here he just does not have that awesome sauce. He's something else. A source if you will.

I just looked it up he doesnt like foodcoat, I dont like foodcoat either but I want to hear his reasons he cant just say foodcoats is sus and drop off the earth

Foodcoats makes good sharp observations as town that make sense and that I can identify an investigative and inquiring mindset.

He has done nothing like that all game. He's been fluff-posting and being nice to people, and even his game-related posts are not strong at all so far.

As chaqa said, as soon as it became potentially dangerous to scumread Sweet (if youre a scum with allignment information) he suddenly backed off. Nothing changed there with that additional claim from a town pov.

But most importantly; its not about what he's said. Its about what he hasnt said. Anything that rings like towny observation. Foods often quite quick and clear in that regard.

Youi did not give an explanation until Flavius pushed for one, and I don't think your explanation was valid.

[sweetandcool]

I think you are probably delighted with how D1 turned out.

Your multiple fakeclaims absorbed a lot of the day, turned Damo into your loyal cheerleader for some reason, and contributed to three town deaths and a grand total of 0 Mafia being caught.

Assuming you are scum, great performance, bravo.

I did really good work. We just gotta solve the game now. It's not my fault y'all voted Food who was a pretty poor wagon.

YES, it >is< your fault the only people against the food wagon >just< didnt want a runaway wagon >no one< not even food himself presented COUNTER ARGUMENTS, even >I< was hesitant cause food wasnt even >on< for 20 hours despite doing a bunch of scummy stuff >then< he returned and did >nothing< to defend himself besides treating it like one >big joke< it was ridiculous and you DID NOTHING to prevent >any of that<

Can anyone summarize what Flav is saying? I can't read it between all the math symbols sprinkled in there.

[bozotheclown]

Is chaqa being scum 100% conditional on flavius being town, and/or jamiet being scum in your mind Bozo?

You seem to only draw conclusions on Chaqa based on your perception of other players.

Is this inaccurate?

So you think Flavius is town correct?

No, I pointed out some inconsistencies in Chaqa's reads, and foodcoats had some reasonable opinions.

I do think Flavius is likely to be town.

If you think Flavius is town, have you actually looked into brainbombs reasoning for scumreading him?

Im sort of surprised that you townread Flav, but are just joining together with brainbomb in questioning me for hours, while his basis for being suspicious of me lies in the fact I was protecting Flav.

Or do you view his reasoning different, or just dont care?

I have stated why I think you could be mafia, and it has nothing to do with Flavius. I do have a different opinion, I think it is more likely you were pocketing Flavius than protecting him.

[sweetandcool]

Did that even pop up already when I made the comment? im not sure anymore.

Anyways, that wagon I understand more clearly. It was night & day with his play from last game.

Why do you think that is alignment indictive? Am I playing similar to last game? Does that make me Town/Scum?

And likewise if you were wagoned D1 I wouldnt have lifted a finger to stop it.

I like to think I have a bit of range as either alignment.

I think saying someone is playing day and night compared to their last game is a poor metric for reading alignment, by itself.