M 90: Shootout at the Pretty Good Corral

[sweetandcool]

Also, I just realized Bunny is roleplaying as Flavius. Did Flavius' penchant for bolding words for emphasis rub off on Bunny in scumchat?

Is this a crazy subtle scumslip? I'll have to look back and see how they look D1.

[brainbomb]

Working on my case on Jamie-Vecna-Chaqa-Flavius scumteam with bunny also as a possibility if im wrong about one of these.

i was halfway written and lost the post on mobile but the idea centers around Jamie lightly resisting wanting to push chaqa,

It depends on the overall level of activity in any given game.

Lurking is not just low posting, it's low posting whilst also seeming to have an eye on the game.

As to question 2:
Worcej, Lfischl, maybe Eden.

He does encourage me to vote chaqa but does not seem willing to join and uses an out of game reason to give day 1 pass to chaqa.

—-later—/

flavius then misrepping my statements, chaqa showing up and claiming flavius is leading the conversations, and vecna trying to defend flavius and scumreading all the people who he normally accurately reads day 1 but gets them all wrong in a rare fail.

The first quote is:

↑brainbomb: "Okay well there were no survivors. Just an inflatable man.

So this seems to be tilting sideways quite fast. Never was I..."
I dont understand how we can start a conversation on lurkers without even KNOWING whose a lurker yet or not? So far we just have chaqa confirmed lurker because chaqa isnt going to be on much D1 as explained, who else? WHO KNOWS...thats why we dont go after lurkers D1 its just sillly

-flavius prefedending chaqa that his reasons for not being around are true but insta trying to pivot to any other lurker to talk about.

Chaqa on my push on flavius

Weirdly bad take from brain

I quite strongly disagree with you on this one. I think Flavius has been very productive and driving conversation.

If anyone here is all carbs, it's you.

Chaqa replies to demonrhk saying Flavius is leading the conversations and steering the game. Which mostly consists of flav repeating foodcoats is scum, sweet is lying, and brainbomb is inconsistent.

So this looks scummy by chaqa.

SEE @brain chaqa is NO longer a lurker because chaqa is going to start talking! YOU CANT KNOW whose a lurker and whose NOT a lurker until D2

Flavius attempting to remove reasons to look at chaqa

You know this tells us nothing right? There is no SCUM Vecna here to compare too

Flavius attempting to hard push an agenda that any research on vecna habits is void because vecna isnt scum here. Stated seemingly as a fact rather than any reasoning given for why.

Part 2 coming soon

[brainbomb]

Reading flavius posts, every other talking point is to return all interest on foodcoats.

And what is Vecna doing THIS game?

Flavius defends vecna to try to shut down the discussion on him.

Immediate pivot:

page 41 / orig I just looked it up he doesnt like foodcoat, I dont like foodcoat either but I want to hear his reasons he cant just say foodcoats is sus and drop off the earth

This post is poorly crafted and seems to reach a bit to challenge vecna over foodcoats. Perhaps even preassigning blame so he does try to establish a vague reason to want more from vecna here but its the last we ever hear about it.

Vecna arrived stating flav is just like last game
I produce a body of evidence proving flav was scumsiding last game on purpose

And this is the reactions by vecna

when did he say that?

similar play to this game continued long after the recruitment had already taken place though

BB, D&W, Food, HB, Bozo

My current guess is that group contains all 4 scum

Now im suddenly scumlisted by vecna along with three other now dead town

Flavius sees what vecna said about post recruitment m89 playstyle change:

BRUH first of all last game I was trying to get recruited CORRECT and do you know HOW to get recruited? By being the >most< towny that ever towned. I didnt change how I was even AFTER recruitment phased ended and if you were in the discord you would have seen my demeanor didnt CHANGE. Ive explained htis a thousand million times I add CAPITALS to things to bring EMPHASIS to what Im syaing
​
[/quote
Flavius uses vecnas argument and presents it as his own self defense but tries to bury the defense by changing topics to be about his use of all caps

[brainbomb]

The scumteam working in coordination involves chaqa-flav-vecna and jamie. Some of this could be inavertant; but some of this is subtle; other parts are inexplicable blatant coordination to get foodcoats killed by flav-chaqa and vecna. Jamie fits into this equation is steering the game away from lurker chaqa onto other lurkers at the time. But he can lean back on his supposed willingness to push chaqa by saying he was never against other people doing it

[brainbomb]

NOTHING of your vote came from Chaqa? I find that hard to believe it basically came RIGHT after Chaqa made the case on him

Flavius attempting to give chaqa credit for my push on eden, builds up chaqa, shades me and makes it seem like chaqas homework on eden is valid - without ever saying if he himself agrees that eden is scum

[Jamiet99uk]

Brainbomb: I don't know what else to say except, you're wrong.

[Jamiet99uk]

The scumteam working in coordination involves chaqa-flav-vecna and jamie. Some of this could be inavertant; but some of this is subtle; other parts are inexplicable blatant coordination to get foodcoats killed by flav-chaqa and vecna. Jamie fits into this equation is steering the game away from lurker chaqa onto other lurkers at the time. But he can lean back on his supposed willingness to push chaqa by saying he was never against other people doing it

I would remind you that there was never a viable wagon on Chaqa, and you actively helped the Foodcoats wagon.

[Vecna]

wheres the EoN msg? Did I miss a day?

[Vecna]

its almost like my forum is missing a chunk of posts during a time period of ~4 hours during which EoN shouldve occured.

Wasnt it supposed to be 2h ago?

[Vecna]

did we really get a 48h night because EoD1 was extended by 15 minutes?

what the actual yuk darg

[Jamiet99uk]

its almost like my forum is missing a chunk of posts during a time period of ~4 hours during which EoN shouldve occured.

Wasnt it supposed to be 2h ago?

This night is 48hrs long, babe.

[President Eden]

did we really get a 48h night because EoD1 was extended by 15 minutes?

what the actual yuk darg

I’m pretty sure it’s 48h because it’s Freedom Day

[bozotheclown]

I am absolutely gutted about how D1 turned out.

I don't know if Ham specifically targeted Dip because I scumread Dip, but it's very clear he went along with the charade I had provided and shit at the 30 minute mark. And if he had hit scum it absolutely would have been epic.

Sorry for failing you Ham. I really thought Dip was Mafia.

Which means Dip really did get discouraged from trying to solve like last game. Which really depresses me, because he really tried last game and got massively scumread for actually trying to solve.

Food flipping Town isn't very surprising and I would have tried to push against it if I was available. But I'm not going to whine about it like I normally would because I wasn't super convicted about that read.

I haven't had a chance to assess the situation, but off the top of my head the main read that changes after Dip flipping is that worcej is no longer Townread and is more null.

For this post alone, I’m shooting you if I get the chance.

You think swapping roles with the desperado was desirable? An objective worth doing? You’re gutted it failed?

This is such a scum Bunny post. You gotta restrain yourself when you think you've found an easy target.

This exchange made me think sweetandcool and BunnyGo could both be mafia.

[bozotheclown]

For this post alone, I’m shooting you if I get the chance.

You think swapping roles with the desperado was desirable? An objective worth doing? You’re gutted it failed?

This is such a scum Bunny post. You gotta restrain yourself when you think you've found an easy target.

You make it so fickint hard to be your teammate. You go OUT OF YOUR WAY to antagonize EVERY TOWN player. As if you can only think of yourself. I’m shooting you if I get a gun.

This post however made me think that maybe just BunnyGo is mafia. It also is a potential scum slip because it seems to assume sweetandcool is town.

[bozotheclown]

This is such a scum Bunny post. You gotta restrain yourself when you think you've found an easy target.

You make it so fickint hard to be your teammate. You go OUT OF YOUR WAY to antagonize EVERY TOWN player. As if you can only think of yourself. I’m shooting you if I get a gun.

Fine, I'll explain.

Food was right, I planned to fake claim no matter what this game. But I also didn't want to "harm Town", so I was very responsible by opening with a very obvious fake claim. Its only utility was that Mafia wouldn't believe me, which is beneficial in the event I rolled Sheriff. And since nobody would CC me or DK me, we would have a Sheriff till the end of the game. Or Mafia would believe me enough to RB me, which is also beneficial in the (probability wise) more likely event I rolled VT.

What I didn't anticipate, was the incredibly unhinged response I received. Three players (Bozo, Food, Eden) immediately assumed it was a joke (very good). A few players believed me (very strange and unexpected, I thought maybe one player would at most), and the rest denounced me as a filthy liar, playing anti-town and narcissistic and not working with my team, which is an extreme and unhinged response.

Given that several of these reactions have to be fake, I think overall it produced content that is helpful to Town, so I don't really regret it at all.

But, since I received such a hysterical response, I felt backed into a corner. How could Town threaten to DK an unCC PR claim? Or feel like the claim was worth even treating as possible?

So I decided to make a believable fake claim, Desperado. In hindsight, that was a poor move because Town's inability to think rationally meant the Desperado was likely to shoot me. Luckily, cool-hand Ham rolled Desperado and behaved reasonably.

My plan at that point was to purposefully be AFK at EoD, which would explain why I didn't shoot. I didn't really think Desperado would go along with my charade, but I was happy to provide that opportunity if they wanted to take it. In the end, and happily, I organically was AFK, relieving me of the burden of finding a way to explain it without lying.

I had further moves planned, but Ham shooting and dieing obviously makes those plans moot.

Ultimately, this has exposed precisely the Town behavior I decry. Heuristics are good, but when players rely on them as an excuse to turn off their brain and make bad unthinking decisions then heuristics become bad. It is true, Fake claiming is more often bad, and should be treated with care. But a player fake claiming, whether well or poorly, is not automatically scum. This is similar to the train of thought some players get tempted into where they see play they don't like and consequently scumread others. The reality is Town makes bad moves too, or just moves you don't agree with at the very least.

I think Town's treatment of me has been shameful, and I'm sorry that Food hates playing with me and that you Bunny and others feel like I'm not a Town player.

I thought my play helped Town solve and provided cover for our real PRs and provides amazing cover for me if I am a PR. Of course, I'm relying on Town playing as a Team, which I'm guessing D2 will demonstrate will not be the case.

In conclusion, I am Sheriff, hard claim.

BunnyGo's reaction is not what I would expect, I think he may just be mafia setting you up for a mis-kill.

[bozotheclown]

Working on my case on Jamie-Vecna-Chaqa-Flavius scumteam with bunny also as a possibility if im wrong about one of these.

i was halfway written and lost the post on mobile but the idea centers around Jamie lightly resisting wanting to push chaqa,

It depends on the overall level of activity in any given game.

Lurking is not just low posting, it's low posting whilst also seeming to have an eye on the game.

As to question 2:
Worcej, Lfischl, maybe Eden.

He does encourage me to vote chaqa but does not seem willing to join and uses an out of game reason to give day 1 pass to chaqa.

—-later—/

flavius then misrepping my statements, chaqa showing up and claiming flavius is leading the conversations, and vecna trying to defend flavius and scumreading all the people who he normally accurately reads day 1 but gets them all wrong in a rare fail.

The first quote is:

↑brainbomb: "Okay well there were no survivors. Just an inflatable man.

So this seems to be tilting sideways quite fast. Never was I..."
I dont understand how we can start a conversation on lurkers without even KNOWING whose a lurker yet or not? So far we just have chaqa confirmed lurker because chaqa isnt going to be on much D1 as explained, who else? WHO KNOWS...thats why we dont go after lurkers D1 its just sillly

-flavius prefedending chaqa that his reasons for not being around are true but insta trying to pivot to any other lurker to talk about.

Chaqa on my push on flavius

Weirdly bad take from brain

I quite strongly disagree with you on this one. I think Flavius has been very productive and driving conversation.

If anyone here is all carbs, it's you.

Chaqa replies to demonrhk saying Flavius is leading the conversations and steering the game. Which mostly consists of flav repeating foodcoats is scum, sweet is lying, and brainbomb is inconsistent.

So this looks scummy by chaqa.

SEE @brain chaqa is NO longer a lurker because chaqa is going to start talking! YOU CANT KNOW whose a lurker and whose NOT a lurker until D2

Flavius attempting to remove reasons to look at chaqa

You know this tells us nothing right? There is no SCUM Vecna here to compare too

Flavius attempting to hard push an agenda that any research on vecna habits is void because vecna isnt scum here. Stated seemingly as a fact rather than any reasoning given for why.

Part 2 coming soon

I like this theory, but Vecna and Chaqa could have been pocketing Flavius because he was pushing foodcoats, who Vecna and Chaqa were trying to set up as a counter wagon to Jamie. I also like BunnyGo as the alternative.

What about a Vecna/Chaqa/Jamie/BunnyGo mafia team? Does anyone have arguments against it?

[sweetandcool]

You make it so fickint hard to be your teammate. You go OUT OF YOUR WAY to antagonize EVERY TOWN player. As if you can only think of yourself. I’m shooting you if I get a gun.

Fine, I'll explain.

Food was right, I planned to fake claim no matter what this game. But I also didn't want to "harm Town", so I was very responsible by opening with a very obvious fake claim. Its only utility was that Mafia wouldn't believe me, which is beneficial in the event I rolled Sheriff. And since nobody would CC me or DK me, we would have a Sheriff till the end of the game. Or Mafia would believe me enough to RB me, which is also beneficial in the (probability wise) more likely event I rolled VT.

What I didn't anticipate, was the incredibly unhinged response I received. Three players (Bozo, Food, Eden) immediately assumed it was a joke (very good). A few players believed me (very strange and unexpected, I thought maybe one player would at most), and the rest denounced me as a filthy liar, playing anti-town and narcissistic and not working with my team, which is an extreme and unhinged response.

Given that several of these reactions have to be fake, I think overall it produced content that is helpful to Town, so I don't really regret it at all.

But, since I received such a hysterical response, I felt backed into a corner. How could Town threaten to DK an unCC PR claim? Or feel like the claim was worth even treating as possible?

So I decided to make a believable fake claim, Desperado. In hindsight, that was a poor move because Town's inability to think rationally meant the Desperado was likely to shoot me. Luckily, cool-hand Ham rolled Desperado and behaved reasonably.

My plan at that point was to purposefully be AFK at EoD, which would explain why I didn't shoot. I didn't really think Desperado would go along with my charade, but I was happy to provide that opportunity if they wanted to take it. In the end, and happily, I organically was AFK, relieving me of the burden of finding a way to explain it without lying.

I had further moves planned, but Ham shooting and dieing obviously makes those plans moot.

Ultimately, this has exposed precisely the Town behavior I decry. Heuristics are good, but when players rely on them as an excuse to turn off their brain and make bad unthinking decisions then heuristics become bad. It is true, Fake claiming is more often bad, and should be treated with care. But a player fake claiming, whether well or poorly, is not automatically scum. This is similar to the train of thought some players get tempted into where they see play they don't like and consequently scumread others. The reality is Town makes bad moves too, or just moves you don't agree with at the very least.

I think Town's treatment of me has been shameful, and I'm sorry that Food hates playing with me and that you Bunny and others feel like I'm not a Town player.

I thought my play helped Town solve and provided cover for our real PRs and provides amazing cover for me if I am a PR. Of course, I'm relying on Town playing as a Team, which I'm guessing D2 will demonstrate will not be the case.

In conclusion, I am Sheriff, hard claim.

BunnyGo's reaction is not what I would expect, I think he may just be mafia setting you up for a mis-kill.

Yes, I've reached that conclusion as well. It's nice to know someone else sees it too.

It reminds me of worcej last game. He played into my expectations and was in my blind spot. Now Bunny seems as though they are leaning into genuine annoyance, but dialing it up a notch in order to make a misskill, or even better to subtly egg a Lawman into shooting me D2.

I think this is precisely the play Bunny would make as Mafia, because they generally find me annoying, and yes I have been extra aggravating (at least to some) this game, so Bunny seems encouraged to lean into it since it is an easy acting job for him.

Still, I'd like to look at their D1 and voting, etc. to verify it and see how probable he is actually scum. I also think him parroting Flavius' writing style is extremely suspicious and since it is not in the context of a joke or communication with Flavius it may well be due to them being teammates and Flavius' writing style rubbing off on him.

[bozotheclown]

I am absolutely gutted about how D1 turned out.

I don't know if Ham specifically targeted Dip because I scumread Dip, but it's very clear he went along with the charade I had provided and shit at the 30 minute mark. And if he had hit scum it absolutely would have been epic.

Sorry for failing you Ham. I really thought Dip was Mafia.

Which means Dip really did get discouraged from trying to solve like last game. Which really depresses me, because he really tried last game and got massively scumread for actually trying to solve.

Food flipping Town isn't very surprising and I would have tried to push against it if I was available. But I'm not going to whine about it like I normally would because I wasn't super convicted about that read.

I haven't had a chance to assess the situation, but off the top of my head the main read that changes after Dip flipping is that worcej is no longer Townread and is more null.

I did not realize DiplomacyandWarfare got DKed for his town effort in M89, I also regret my part in pushing his wagon D1.

[bozotheclown]

Fine, I'll explain.

Food was right, I planned to fake claim no matter what this game. But I also didn't want to "harm Town", so I was very responsible by opening with a very obvious fake claim. Its only utility was that Mafia wouldn't believe me, which is beneficial in the event I rolled Sheriff. And since nobody would CC me or DK me, we would have a Sheriff till the end of the game. Or Mafia would believe me enough to RB me, which is also beneficial in the (probability wise) more likely event I rolled VT.

What I didn't anticipate, was the incredibly unhinged response I received. Three players (Bozo, Food, Eden) immediately assumed it was a joke (very good). A few players believed me (very strange and unexpected, I thought maybe one player would at most), and the rest denounced me as a filthy liar, playing anti-town and narcissistic and not working with my team, which is an extreme and unhinged response.

Given that several of these reactions have to be fake, I think overall it produced content that is helpful to Town, so I don't really regret it at all.

But, since I received such a hysterical response, I felt backed into a corner. How could Town threaten to DK an unCC PR claim? Or feel like the claim was worth even treating as possible?

So I decided to make a believable fake claim, Desperado. In hindsight, that was a poor move because Town's inability to think rationally meant the Desperado was likely to shoot me. Luckily, cool-hand Ham rolled Desperado and behaved reasonably.

My plan at that point was to purposefully be AFK at EoD, which would explain why I didn't shoot. I didn't really think Desperado would go along with my charade, but I was happy to provide that opportunity if they wanted to take it. In the end, and happily, I organically was AFK, relieving me of the burden of finding a way to explain it without lying.

I had further moves planned, but Ham shooting and dieing obviously makes those plans moot.

Ultimately, this has exposed precisely the Town behavior I decry. Heuristics are good, but when players rely on them as an excuse to turn off their brain and make bad unthinking decisions then heuristics become bad. It is true, Fake claiming is more often bad, and should be treated with care. But a player fake claiming, whether well or poorly, is not automatically scum. This is similar to the train of thought some players get tempted into where they see play they don't like and consequently scumread others. The reality is Town makes bad moves too, or just moves you don't agree with at the very least.

I think Town's treatment of me has been shameful, and I'm sorry that Food hates playing with me and that you Bunny and others feel like I'm not a Town player.

I thought my play helped Town solve and provided cover for our real PRs and provides amazing cover for me if I am a PR. Of course, I'm relying on Town playing as a Team, which I'm guessing D2 will demonstrate will not be the case.

In conclusion, I am Sheriff, hard claim.

BunnyGo's reaction is not what I would expect, I think he may just be mafia setting you up for a mis-kill.

Yes, I've reached that conclusion as well. It's nice to know someone else sees it too.

It reminds me of worcej last game. He played into my expectations and was in my blind spot. Now Bunny seems as though they are leaning into genuine annoyance, but dialing it up a notch in order to make a misskill, or even better to subtly egg a Lawman into shooting me D2.

I think this is precisely the play Bunny would make as Mafia, because they generally find me annoying, and yes I have been extra aggravating (at least to some) this game, so Bunny seems encouraged to lean into it since it is an easy acting job for him.

Still, I'd like to look at their D1 and voting, etc. to verify it and see how probable he is actually scum. I also think him parroting Flavius' writing style is extremely suspicious and since it is not in the context of a joke or communication with Flavius it may well be due to them being teammates and Flavius' writing style rubbing off on him.

Maybe, but I would be surprised if Flavius is mafia.

[bozotheclown]

##vote sweet

Ur v0tiNg aN un-cC'd Pr!

##vote Jamie

This monster has been caught in the whorehouse.

I don't understand the basis for BunnyGo's vote for Jamie, but it could be a distancing vote.