M89: Baldurs Gate Mafia Game Thread

[President Eden]

I have a theory.

(hit post too soon lol)

Also, I’m pretty sure aaro is on board with shooting down the line. It’s just Bona who’s not. (And the mafia lol)

[Ezio]

that’s exactly why I want to kill him while I’m still alive to ensure it happens lol.

I don’t know if I trust y’all not to blow this :/

I'm scared of these comments from Aaro and Bona scumreading each other and shit.
I'm worried Food is gonna convince them to flip.
FWIW, I'd vote we flip food tomorrow for exactly this reason...

Do you remember when food outed as Cleric?

Uh... No? I do not remember that.

[President Eden]

I broke my sacred promise and read posts from before I subbed in.

It looks like foodcoats started “softing” Cleric N2. N2 and N3, he relayed ghost chat messages in the form of our somewhat typical “tales from the god chat” parody style. I’d consider this “softing” because it’s still got plausible deniability as a joke.

He hardclaims by N4, relaying ghost messages point blank without any plausible deniability.

ghug died D3. Could ghug have been the final PR, giving foodcoats cover to claim?

[aarodactyl]

I have a theory.

(hit post too soon lol)

Also, I’m pretty sure aaro is on board with shooting down the line. It’s just Bona who’s not. (And the mafia lol)

This is true. I don’t think bona is scum. If he were, I see no reason to try to set me up to be a miskill instead of whoever would have to be town in the food/will/worcej grouping.

[Ezio]

I broke my sacred promise and read posts from before I subbed in.

It looks like foodcoats started “softing” Cleric N2. N2 and N3, he relayed ghost chat messages in the form of our somewhat typical “tales from the god chat” parody style. I’d consider this “softing” because it’s still got plausible deniability as a joke.

He hardclaims by N4, relaying ghost messages point blank without any plausible deniability.

ghug died D3. Could ghug have been the final PR, giving foodcoats cover to claim?

I suppose it's possible ghug was the final PR. I remember there was a bit about squiggs I think posting a reference to a game with Sweet or something to Sweet specifically and Sweet confirmed it, which makes me think Food is probably actually that role.

[aarodactyl]

I broke my sacred promise and read posts from before I subbed in.

It looks like foodcoats started “softing” Cleric N2. N2 and N3, he relayed ghost chat messages in the form of our somewhat typical “tales from the god chat” parody style. I’d consider this “softing” because it’s still got plausible deniability as a joke.

He hardclaims by N4, relaying ghost messages point blank without any plausible deniability.

ghug died D3. Could ghug have been the final PR, giving foodcoats cover to claim?

I suppose it's possible ghug was the final PR. I remember there was a bit about squiggs I think posting a reference to a game with Sweet or something to Sweet specifically and Sweet confirmed it, which makes me think Food is probably actually that role.

I’m reading Eden’s theory as saying food is actually cleric and the cover is a reference to the number of town PR.

[aarodactyl]

I find it basically impossible to believe that food was doing that all as a non-cleric. I also asked ghug a baseball question through him and got what I think is actual ghug answer.

[President Eden]

I broke my sacred promise and read posts from before I subbed in.

It looks like foodcoats started “softing” Cleric N2. N2 and N3, he relayed ghost chat messages in the form of our somewhat typical “tales from the god chat” parody style. I’d consider this “softing” because it’s still got plausible deniability as a joke.

He hardclaims by N4, relaying ghost messages point blank without any plausible deniability.

ghug died D3. Could ghug have been the final PR, giving foodcoats cover to claim?

I suppose it's possible ghug was the final PR. I remember there was a bit about squiggs I think posting a reference to a game with Sweet or something to Sweet specifically and Sweet confirmed it, which makes me think Food is probably actually that role.

I’m reading Eden’s theory as saying food is actually cleric and the cover is a reference to the number of town PR.

[BunnyGo]

I find it basically impossible to believe that food was doing that all as a non-cleric. I also asked ghug a baseball question through him and got what I think is actual ghug answer.

Was this before or after food reported that ghug claimed to be VT?

[aarodactyl]

I find it basically impossible to believe that food was doing that all as a non-cleric. I also asked ghug a baseball question through him and got what I think is actual ghug answer.

Was this before or after food reported that ghug claimed to be VT?

I think would have had to be after but I haven’t checked to be sure. I see what you’re getting at though. Seems unlikely ghug would be anything other than VT.

[Bonatogether]

I find it basically impossible to believe that food was doing that all as a non-cleric. I also asked ghug a baseball question through him and got what I think is actual ghug answer.

Was this before or after food reported that ghug claimed to be VT?

I think would have had to be after but I haven’t checked to be sure. I see what you’re getting at though. Seems unlikely ghug would be anything other than VT.

unlikely but we can't assume. if scum believed that ghug was pr, shooting him when they did makes sense

[BunnyGo]

Hmm

@kaka: how am I an Austrian?

@ghug: what’s your take on all the new MLB rules?

@sweet: what’s the difference between analysis, algebra, and logic?

[foodcoats]

Was this before or after food reported that ghug claimed to be VT?

I think would have had to be after but I haven’t checked to be sure. I see what you’re getting at though. Seems unlikely ghug would be anything other than VT.

unlikely but we can't assume. if scum believed that ghug was pr, shooting him when they did makes sense

Not to belabour the point, but at this stage, the best I can do is try to illuminate my own alignment so I am not a miskill.

For me to be scum, I had to make a claim about ghug’s alignment and role EON3 after conferring with the scum team and MM, who had janitored him. Even if I was tadpoled, I would still have been able to discuss it with them. I would therefore be part of a decision to complicate any possible future claim by my teammate MM, as part of the story would be “locked in” in advance - which is clearly suboptimal.

I also, if NOT tadpoled but original scum, would have been claiming my role when I could have just told the dead, or later rather legitimately claimed, that I would not reveal unless I had mechanical information.

Surely scum can play suboptimally. However, I have recently pontificated (outside of the actual game) that the more mechanical information there is in the game, the easier it is for town to solve. Would I really want to so easily give up two points of mechanical reference to town if I was scum?

[foodcoats]

Hmm

@kaka: how am I an Austrian?

@ghug: what’s your take on all the new MLB rules?

@sweet: what’s the difference between analysis, algebra, and logic?

I will ask these questions but only Kak and yoyo are active in the gravechat now. I believe sweet at least passed onto GT.

[President Eden]

I think would have had to be after but I haven’t checked to be sure. I see what you’re getting at though. Seems unlikely ghug would be anything other than VT.

unlikely but we can't assume. if scum believed that ghug was pr, shooting him when they did makes sense

Not to belabour the point, but at this stage, the best I can do is try to illuminate my own alignment so I am not a miskill.

For me to be scum, I had to make a claim about ghug’s alignment and role EON3 after conferring with the scum team and MM, who had janitored him. Even if I was tadpoled, I would still have been able to discuss it with them. I would therefore be part of a decision to complicate any possible future claim by my teammate MM, as part of the story would be “locked in” in advance - which is clearly suboptimal.

I also, if NOT tadpoled but original scum, would have been claiming my role when I could have just told the dead, or later rather legitimately claimed, that I would not reveal unless I had mechanical information.

Surely scum can play suboptimally. However, I have recently pontificated (outside of the actual game) that the more mechanical information there is in the game, the easier it is for town to solve. Would I really want to so easily give up two points of mechanical reference to town if I was scum?

You’ll note that we’ve already explored these arguments throughout the game and found they weighed in your favor. We question your alignment right now not because your play makes sense as a mafia PR but because it sure does look like you were one of four players who voted for mafia to win the game in a 5-4 LYLO situation, and that evidence, if true, vastly outweighs any “why would scum PR play like this” speculation.

You’d be better off telling us who the other mafia is besides you, and why they chose not to win the game when you offered them the chance.

[foodcoats]

unlikely but we can't assume. if scum believed that ghug was pr, shooting him when they did makes sense

Not to belabour the point, but at this stage, the best I can do is try to illuminate my own alignment so I am not a miskill.

For me to be scum, I had to make a claim about ghug’s alignment and role EON3 after conferring with the scum team and MM, who had janitored him. Even if I was tadpoled, I would still have been able to discuss it with them. I would therefore be part of a decision to complicate any possible future claim by my teammate MM, as part of the story would be “locked in” in advance - which is clearly suboptimal.

I also, if NOT tadpoled but original scum, would have been claiming my role when I could have just told the dead, or later rather legitimately claimed, that I would not reveal unless I had mechanical information.

Surely scum can play suboptimally. However, I have recently pontificated (outside of the actual game) that the more mechanical information there is in the game, the easier it is for town to solve. Would I really want to so easily give up two points of mechanical reference to town if I was scum?

You’ll note that we’ve already explored these arguments throughout the game and found they weighed in your favor. We question your alignment right now not because your play makes sense as a mafia PR but because it sure does look like you were one of four players who voted for mafia to win the game in a 5-4 LYLO situation, and that evidence, if true, vastly outweighs any “why would scum PR play like this” speculation.

You’d be better off telling us who the other mafia is besides you, and why they chose not to win the game when you offered them the chance.

I addressed this as well. If I was scum, then I was not truly apathetic and detached but waiting, lurking, and plotting. If so, why did I return to place my vote on Bunny when I did? It is not difficult to mask my online presence, have a vote ready, have time.is open, and cast the deciding vote with a few seconds left. Why would I play my cards 10 minutes before EOD? If there was an exodus off Bunny’s wagon I could simply wait until the following day to continue the ruse and not expose myself.

[Ezio]

Not to belabour the point, but at this stage, the best I can do is try to illuminate my own alignment so I am not a miskill.

For me to be scum, I had to make a claim about ghug’s alignment and role EON3 after conferring with the scum team and MM, who had janitored him. Even if I was tadpoled, I would still have been able to discuss it with them. I would therefore be part of a decision to complicate any possible future claim by my teammate MM, as part of the story would be “locked in” in advance - which is clearly suboptimal.

I also, if NOT tadpoled but original scum, would have been claiming my role when I could have just told the dead, or later rather legitimately claimed, that I would not reveal unless I had mechanical information.

Surely scum can play suboptimally. However, I have recently pontificated (outside of the actual game) that the more mechanical information there is in the game, the easier it is for town to solve. Would I really want to so easily give up two points of mechanical reference to town if I was scum?

You’ll note that we’ve already explored these arguments throughout the game and found they weighed in your favor. We question your alignment right now not because your play makes sense as a mafia PR but because it sure does look like you were one of four players who voted for mafia to win the game in a 5-4 LYLO situation, and that evidence, if true, vastly outweighs any “why would scum PR play like this” speculation.

You’d be better off telling us who the other mafia is besides you, and why they chose not to win the game when you offered them the chance.

I addressed this as well. If I was scum, then I was not truly apathetic and detached but waiting, lurking, and plotting. If so, why did I return to place my vote on Bunny when I did? It is not difficult to mask my online presence, have a vote ready, have time.is open, and cast the deciding vote with a few seconds left. Why would I play my cards 10 minutes before EOD? If there was an exodus off Bunny’s wagon I could simply wait until the following day to continue the ruse and not expose myself.

Easy: you were lurking. You saw Eden came back and switched correctly. You realized the game wasn't over and panicked, hoping to survive the inevitable grind.

[President Eden]

Not to belabour the point, but at this stage, the best I can do is try to illuminate my own alignment so I am not a miskill.

For me to be scum, I had to make a claim about ghug’s alignment and role EON3 after conferring with the scum team and MM, who had janitored him. Even if I was tadpoled, I would still have been able to discuss it with them. I would therefore be part of a decision to complicate any possible future claim by my teammate MM, as part of the story would be “locked in” in advance - which is clearly suboptimal.

I also, if NOT tadpoled but original scum, would have been claiming my role when I could have just told the dead, or later rather legitimately claimed, that I would not reveal unless I had mechanical information.

Surely scum can play suboptimally. However, I have recently pontificated (outside of the actual game) that the more mechanical information there is in the game, the easier it is for town to solve. Would I really want to so easily give up two points of mechanical reference to town if I was scum?

You’ll note that we’ve already explored these arguments throughout the game and found they weighed in your favor. We question your alignment right now not because your play makes sense as a mafia PR but because it sure does look like you were one of four players who voted for mafia to win the game in a 5-4 LYLO situation, and that evidence, if true, vastly outweighs any “why would scum PR play like this” speculation.

You’d be better off telling us who the other mafia is besides you, and why they chose not to win the game when you offered them the chance.

I addressed this as well. If I was scum, then I was not truly apathetic and detached but waiting, lurking, and plotting. If so, why did I return to place my vote on Bunny when I did? It is not difficult to mask my online presence, have a vote ready, have time.is open, and cast the deciding vote with a few seconds left. Why would I play my cards 10 minutes before EOD? If there was an exodus off Bunny’s wagon I could simply wait until the following day to continue the ruse and not expose myself.

Again, that’s all fair. If we just set aside the end result of last phase, you seemed pretty townie to me by the total body of work. I agree with your argument here.

But it doesn’t remotely stack up to “Ezio, aaro, Bona, and Eden could have flipped their votes at EOD and won the game for scum.”

[Ezio]

You’ll note that we’ve already explored these arguments throughout the game and found they weighed in your favor. We question your alignment right now not because your play makes sense as a mafia PR but because it sure does look like you were one of four players who voted for mafia to win the game in a 5-4 LYLO situation, and that evidence, if true, vastly outweighs any “why would scum PR play like this” speculation.

You’d be better off telling us who the other mafia is besides you, and why they chose not to win the game when you offered them the chance.

I addressed this as well. If I was scum, then I was not truly apathetic and detached but waiting, lurking, and plotting. If so, why did I return to place my vote on Bunny when I did? It is not difficult to mask my online presence, have a vote ready, have time.is open, and cast the deciding vote with a few seconds left. Why would I play my cards 10 minutes before EOD? If there was an exodus off Bunny’s wagon I could simply wait until the following day to continue the ruse and not expose myself.

Again, that’s all fair. If we just set aside the end result of last phase, you seemed pretty townie to me by the total body of work. I agree with your argument here.

But it doesn’t remotely stack up to “Ezio, aaro, Bona, and Eden could have flipped their votes at EOD and won the game for scum.”

Yesterday was like the clearest cut LYLO ever. We had town PR claim, and it was counterclaimed by a scum PR. Classic.
Scum could very easily have won the game there. I think they expected to, after how shitty my "towncore" was. Eden and I both had food and Worcej as towncore. It makes *perfect* sense why the Mafia would go all in on this play. It didn't work this time, but it usually will.

[foodcoats]

Ezio, Eden:

I think you should think more deeply. You are just as convinced I am scum as I was convinced sweet was. You believe the game is in a neat little bow and that there is a single interpretation of the game that "must" be correct. You apparently see no world where scum would hedge until the final second - just as I could not believe sweet would claim Iatrophobe as town. In particular, your belief that scum would all transparently sit on Bunny at 10 minutes out, despite the evidence presented in the thread which made for a mechanically correct Monarch elimination, suggests you have not played Mafia before, which I know is not the case, so I encourage you to remember past games where this has happened against you (I know I have seen the final votes come in from the people I most townread just before the "Hold" message and felt my stomach drop out).

I apologize for the bad play on my part. But if you are town, you are also playing badly by not learning from the last miskill that appearances can be deceiving.