M89: Baldurs Gate Mafia Game Thread

[BunnyGo]

@ezio: is it town view BS that you didn't realize that about the game? I dunno. That's for others to read. I think it might be, but I'm not convinced. It could also be scum who really really wants to know and can't wait. But that doesn't feel correct to me.

[BunnyGo]

@ezio: is it town view BS that you didn't realize that about the game? I dunno. That's for others to read. I think it might be, but I'm not convinced. It could also be scum who really really wants to know and can't wait. But that doesn't feel correct to me.

I've been considering what claiming my role would mean/do ever since I realized sometime around day 2 that my role is itself not alignment indicative.

Crumbing is useless.

Details are meaningless.

Only behavior and actions and general intel are useful.

[worcej]

What did you make of the confirmation information I already gave you? Have you read it? Have you confirmed?

Because as far as I can tell, you’re being scummy trying to figure out exactly how many of you I’ve caught and which of you should be telling which lies now.

Notice worcej either town slipped or scum slipped depending on what I reveal later?

I slip because I validate the possibility you tracked or watched? I don’t get wtf you’re getting at.

##vote Bunny

[President Eden]

##vote BunnyGo

Stop playing chicken

You already know Mad is the safe vote. That I knew her alignment yesterday and maybe earlier. And that Id been counting PRs from early. What more can I tell you that’s convincing?

See, I don’t. Here are my issues:

1. Yes, I’m being considerably riskier right now than everyone else. But we don’t win or lose the game off this shot. Say Monarch is town and you’re mafia and we make the safe play of 50/50 both of you. That still leaves 2 mafia. That leaves us needing to hit consecutive shots in LYLO to win. In that world we literally would not have hit a single mafia off actual scumhunting analysis, just town PRs doing work. Are our odds actually that good? In the world where Monarch is town and we hit you first, we have 3 shots to hit 2 mafia. Much, much better.

2. Monarch had no reason to claim PR as mafia the way she did. By doing so she ensured the “safe play” was to flip her first. She might as well have forced you to claim what you knew about her. To your credit, I don’t know why you might have fakeclaimed here as mafia, so it’s not set in stone for me, but I’d like this matter addressed.

3. Monarch actually crumbed her play in a way that seems reasonably legit to me. I don’t think she would have touched the ghug issue if she were mafia Necromancer who pulled the shot. Meanwhile, your “crumb” was an all-out blitz to get her killed yesterday that felt skeevy as fuck to me at the time. You play in a way that demands far more trust than you’ve earned and that conveniently is indistinguishable from a mafia fakeclaim.

[BunnyGo]

Because as far as I can tell, you’re being scummy trying to figure out exactly how many of you I’ve caught and which of you should be telling which lies now.

Notice worcej either town slipped or scum slipped depending on what I reveal later?

I slip because I validate the possibility you tracked or watched? I don’t get wtf you’re getting at.

##vote Bunny

Case 1: Worcej townslips that he forgot that's how killing worked this game

Case 2: Worcej scumslips because he knows TheMad wasn't USED as the killer...

Only scum (and maybe me) know for sure for now.

[President Eden]

What did you make of the confirmation information I already gave you? Have you read it? Have you confirmed?

What “confirmation information”? I guess I missed it. I’ve only seen you say you know Monarch is Mafia, but not how.

I’ve pointed you towards evidence of knowing previously and behavior that suggested I tried to stay hidden and play it cool, but ended up getting erratic and frantic and finally just trying to all but tip my hand.

I’ve pointed to me counting town’s PRs much before others and with “incorrect” mathematics. Especially when I was scumming food previously.

I’ve pointed to me trusting Squigs, even after the tadpole was given and he was an excellent candidate for it.

There’s other stuff, but that’s as crumby as it gets.

Scum can make up a “towny” role and actions and be “correct” about all of them. They can even do it collaboratively because of this stupid day chat (@GM…it’s the only part of this design I don’t like)

Your statement that me providing you with ANYTHING more specific provides you with anything of merit to read me is complete and 100% bullshit.

Ok in fairness I xposted to this lol. Those seem like fair points that I’d have to reread to process.

[BunnyGo]

##vote BunnyGo

Stop playing chicken

You already know Mad is the safe vote. That I knew her alignment yesterday and maybe earlier. And that Id been counting PRs from early. What more can I tell you that’s convincing?

See, I don’t. Here are my issues:

1. Yes, I’m being considerably riskier right now than everyone else. But we don’t win or lose the game off this shot. Say Monarch is town and you’re mafia and we make the safe play of 50/50 both of you. That still leaves 2 mafia. That leaves us needing to hit consecutive shots in LYLO to win. In that world we literally would not have hit a single mafia off actual scumhunting analysis, just town PRs doing work. Are our odds actually that good? In the world where Monarch is town and we hit you first, we have 3 shots to hit 2 mafia. Much, much better.

2. Monarch had no reason to claim PR as mafia the way she did. By doing so she ensured the “safe play” was to flip her first. She might as well have forced you to claim what you knew about her. To your credit, I don’t know why you might have fakeclaimed here as mafia, so it’s not set in stone for me, but I’d like this matter addressed.

3. Monarch actually crumbed her play in a way that seems reasonably legit to me. I don’t think she would have touched the ghug issue if she were mafia Necromancer who pulled the shot. Meanwhile, your “crumb” was an all-out blitz to get her killed yesterday that felt skeevy as fuck to me at the time. You play in a way that demands far more trust than you’ve earned and that conveniently is indistinguishable from a mafia fakeclaim.

1) Odds only matter if they aren't known.

2) Monarch screwed up.

3) Crumbing is stupid this game. Especially as a POTENTIALLY USEFUL town PR that wants to hide until he can't anymore or he has useful intel.

[Ezio]

What did you make of the confirmation information I already gave you? Have you read it? Have you confirmed?

What "confirmation information"? I guess I missed it. I've only seen you say you know Monarch is Mafia, but not how.

I've pointed you towards evidence of knowing previously and behavior that suggested I tried to stay hidden and play it cool, but ended up getting erratic and frantic and finally just trying to all but tip my hand.

I've pointed to me counting town's PRs much before others and with "incorrect" mathematics. Especially when I was scumming food previously.

I've pointed to me trusting Squigs, even after the tadpole was given and he was an excellent candidate for it.

There's other stuff, but that's as crumby as it gets.

Scum can make up a "towny" role and actions and be "correct" about all of them. They can even do it collaboratively because of this stupid day chat (@GM...it's the only part of this design I don't like)

Your statement that me providing you with ANYTHING more specific provides you with anything of merit to read me is complete and 100% bullshit.

I don't believe in crumbs. I've talked about this at length in other games. If you're a PR, you want to stay alive. You don't want anyone to know anything about your power, until it's time to claim.
If mafia reads the crumbs, they NK you early.
Then, you reveal all of your information immediately. The claims have already come out. If you're a role cop, you already know if people have lied about being VT or not.

As far as this bullshit, dragging it out the way you have is not good. People are on a time schedule, and some people have already left. It's so fucking dumb.

[BunnyGo]

You already know Mad is the safe vote. That I knew her alignment yesterday and maybe earlier. And that Id been counting PRs from early. What more can I tell you that’s convincing?

See, I don’t. Here are my issues:

1. Yes, I’m being considerably riskier right now than everyone else. But we don’t win or lose the game off this shot. Say Monarch is town and you’re mafia and we make the safe play of 50/50 both of you. That still leaves 2 mafia. That leaves us needing to hit consecutive shots in LYLO to win. In that world we literally would not have hit a single mafia off actual scumhunting analysis, just town PRs doing work. Are our odds actually that good? In the world where Monarch is town and we hit you first, we have 3 shots to hit 2 mafia. Much, much better.

2. Monarch had no reason to claim PR as mafia the way she did. By doing so she ensured the “safe play” was to flip her first. She might as well have forced you to claim what you knew about her. To your credit, I don’t know why you might have fakeclaimed here as mafia, so it’s not set in stone for me, but I’d like this matter addressed.

3. Monarch actually crumbed her play in a way that seems reasonably legit to me. I don’t think she would have touched the ghug issue if she were mafia Necromancer who pulled the shot. Meanwhile, your “crumb” was an all-out blitz to get her killed yesterday that felt skeevy as fuck to me at the time. You play in a way that demands far more trust than you’ve earned and that conveniently is indistinguishable from a mafia fakeclaim.

1) Odds only matter if they aren't known.

2) Monarch screwed up.

3) Crumbing is stupid this game. Especially as a POTENTIALLY USEFUL town PR that wants to hide until he can't anymore or he has useful intel.

3b) Had scum killed me last night, you'd all have gone for Monarch today...I "crumbed" that hard enough...

[Ezio]

See, I don’t. Here are my issues:

1. Yes, I’m being considerably riskier right now than everyone else. But we don’t win or lose the game off this shot. Say Monarch is town and you’re mafia and we make the safe play of 50/50 both of you. That still leaves 2 mafia. That leaves us needing to hit consecutive shots in LYLO to win. In that world we literally would not have hit a single mafia off actual scumhunting analysis, just town PRs doing work. Are our odds actually that good? In the world where Monarch is town and we hit you first, we have 3 shots to hit 2 mafia. Much, much better.

2. Monarch had no reason to claim PR as mafia the way she did. By doing so she ensured the “safe play” was to flip her first. She might as well have forced you to claim what you knew about her. To your credit, I don’t know why you might have fakeclaimed here as mafia, so it’s not set in stone for me, but I’d like this matter addressed.

3. Monarch actually crumbed her play in a way that seems reasonably legit to me. I don’t think she would have touched the ghug issue if she were mafia Necromancer who pulled the shot. Meanwhile, your “crumb” was an all-out blitz to get her killed yesterday that felt skeevy as fuck to me at the time. You play in a way that demands far more trust than you’ve earned and that conveniently is indistinguishable from a mafia fakeclaim.

1) Odds only matter if they aren't known.

2) Monarch screwed up.

3) Crumbing is stupid this game. Especially as a POTENTIALLY USEFUL town PR that wants to hide until he can't anymore or he has useful intel.

3b) Had scum killed me last night, you'd all have gone for Monarch today...I "crumbed" that hard enough...

Are you seriously saying you're an alignment cop?

[BunnyGo]

What "confirmation information"? I guess I missed it. I've only seen you say you know Monarch is Mafia, but not how.

I've pointed you towards evidence of knowing previously and behavior that suggested I tried to stay hidden and play it cool, but ended up getting erratic and frantic and finally just trying to all but tip my hand.

I've pointed to me counting town's PRs much before others and with "incorrect" mathematics. Especially when I was scumming food previously.

I've pointed to me trusting Squigs, even after the tadpole was given and he was an excellent candidate for it.

There's other stuff, but that's as crumby as it gets.

Scum can make up a "towny" role and actions and be "correct" about all of them. They can even do it collaboratively because of this stupid day chat (@GM...it's the only part of this design I don't like)

Your statement that me providing you with ANYTHING more specific provides you with anything of merit to read me is complete and 100% bullshit.

I don't believe in crumbs. I've talked about this at length in other games. If you're a PR, you want to stay alive. You don't want anyone to know anything about your power, until it's time to claim.
If mafia reads the crumbs, they NK you early.
Then, you reveal all of your information immediately. The claims have already come out. If you're a role cop, you already know if people have lied about being VT or not.

As far as this bullshit, dragging it out the way you have is not good. People are on a time schedule, and some people have already left. It's so fucking dumb.

Suppose for sake of argument I say that I'm the tracker, and happened to track TheMad 2 nights ago and have no other useful intel. What does that help you read me?

Suppose I tell you in detail who I tracked every night? And say "no result" What does that help you read me?

Suppose I tell you I'm the watcher, and happened to watch Fox the night he was murdered. What does that help you?

Supposed I tell you everyone I watched and "nothing happened". What does that help you?

SCUM CAN MAKE IT ALL UP!! And do it convincingly.

This is NOT A NORMAL game.

[worcej]

See, I don’t. Here are my issues:

1. Yes, I’m being considerably riskier right now than everyone else. But we don’t win or lose the game off this shot. Say Monarch is town and you’re mafia and we make the safe play of 50/50 both of you. That still leaves 2 mafia. That leaves us needing to hit consecutive shots in LYLO to win. In that world we literally would not have hit a single mafia off actual scumhunting analysis, just town PRs doing work. Are our odds actually that good? In the world where Monarch is town and we hit you first, we have 3 shots to hit 2 mafia. Much, much better.

2. Monarch had no reason to claim PR as mafia the way she did. By doing so she ensured the “safe play” was to flip her first. She might as well have forced you to claim what you knew about her. To your credit, I don’t know why you might have fakeclaimed here as mafia, so it’s not set in stone for me, but I’d like this matter addressed.

3. Monarch actually crumbed her play in a way that seems reasonably legit to me. I don’t think she would have touched the ghug issue if she were mafia Necromancer who pulled the shot. Meanwhile, your “crumb” was an all-out blitz to get her killed yesterday that felt skeevy as fuck to me at the time. You play in a way that demands far more trust than you’ve earned and that conveniently is indistinguishable from a mafia fakeclaim.

1) Odds only matter if they aren't known.

2) Monarch screwed up.

3) Crumbing is stupid this game. Especially as a POTENTIALLY USEFUL town PR that wants to hide until he can't anymore or he has useful intel.

3b) Had scum killed me last night, you'd all have gone for Monarch today...I "crumbed" that hard enough...

Going to call bullshit here - we’ve seen town bumble the piss out of “crumbs” far too many times.

[BunnyGo]

1) Odds only matter if they aren't known.

2) Monarch screwed up.

3) Crumbing is stupid this game. Especially as a POTENTIALLY USEFUL town PR that wants to hide until he can't anymore or he has useful intel.

3b) Had scum killed me last night, you'd all have gone for Monarch today...I "crumbed" that hard enough...

Are you seriously saying you're an alignment cop?

I'm seriously saying that the result of at least one of my night actions provided me with a 100% guilty on Monarch.

[BunnyGo]

1) Odds only matter if they aren't known.

2) Monarch screwed up.

3) Crumbing is stupid this game. Especially as a POTENTIALLY USEFUL town PR that wants to hide until he can't anymore or he has useful intel.

3b) Had scum killed me last night, you'd all have gone for Monarch today...I "crumbed" that hard enough...

Going to call bullshit here - we’ve seen town bumble the piss out of “crumbs” far too many times.

You're saying that me begging to kill her yesterday and ending my post last night with "if I die kill Monarch and if I don't die kill Monarch" wasn't clear enough had I flipped an investigative town PR?

[Ezio]

I've pointed you towards evidence of knowing previously and behavior that suggested I tried to stay hidden and play it cool, but ended up getting erratic and frantic and finally just trying to all but tip my hand.

I've pointed to me counting town's PRs much before others and with "incorrect" mathematics. Especially when I was scumming food previously.

I've pointed to me trusting Squigs, even after the tadpole was given and he was an excellent candidate for it.

There's other stuff, but that's as crumby as it gets.

Scum can make up a "towny" role and actions and be "correct" about all of them. They can even do it collaboratively because of this stupid day chat (@GM...it's the only part of this design I don't like)

Your statement that me providing you with ANYTHING more specific provides you with anything of merit to read me is complete and 100% bullshit.

I don't believe in crumbs. I've talked about this at length in other games. If you're a PR, you want to stay alive. You don't want anyone to know anything about your power, until it's time to claim.
If mafia reads the crumbs, they NK you early.
Then, you reveal all of your information immediately. The claims have already come out. If you're a role cop, you already know if people have lied about being VT or not.

As far as this bullshit, dragging it out the way you have is not good. People are on a time schedule, and some people have already left. It's so fucking dumb.

Suppose for sake of argument I say that I'm the tracker, and happened to track TheMad 2 nights ago and have no other useful intel. What does that help you read me?

Suppose I tell you in detail who I tracked every night? And say "no result" What does that help you read me?

Suppose I tell you I'm the watcher, and happened to watch Fox the night he was murdered. What does that help you?

Supposed I tell you everyone I watched and "nothing happened". What does that help you?

SCUM CAN MAKE IT ALL UP!! And do it convincingly.

This is NOT A NORMAL game.

I'm not convinced scum and do it convincingly. And the pressure needs to be on *you* to do the convincing.

[BunnyGo]

I don't believe in crumbs. I've talked about this at length in other games. If you're a PR, you want to stay alive. You don't want anyone to know anything about your power, until it's time to claim.
If mafia reads the crumbs, they NK you early.
Then, you reveal all of your information immediately. The claims have already come out. If you're a role cop, you already know if people have lied about being VT or not.

As far as this bullshit, dragging it out the way you have is not good. People are on a time schedule, and some people have already left. It's so fucking dumb.

Suppose for sake of argument I say that I'm the tracker, and happened to track TheMad 2 nights ago and have no other useful intel. What does that help you read me?

Suppose I tell you in detail who I tracked every night? And say "no result" What does that help you read me?

Suppose I tell you I'm the watcher, and happened to watch Fox the night he was murdered. What does that help you?

Supposed I tell you everyone I watched and "nothing happened". What does that help you?

SCUM CAN MAKE IT ALL UP!! And do it convincingly.

This is NOT A NORMAL game.

I'm not convinced scum and do it convincingly. And the pressure needs to be on *you* to do the convincing.

Fuck you. There's a fucking day chat.

You didn't answer a single one of my questions above.

You answer them all in an honest and complete way and convince ME that it'll help you.

[Ezio]

Suppose for sake of argument I say that I'm the tracker, and happened to track TheMad 2 nights ago and have no other useful intel. What does that help you read me?

Suppose I tell you in detail who I tracked every night? And say "no result" What does that help you read me?

Suppose I tell you I'm the watcher, and happened to watch Fox the night he was murdered. What does that help you?

Supposed I tell you everyone I watched and "nothing happened". What does that help you?

SCUM CAN MAKE IT ALL UP!! And do it convincingly.

This is NOT A NORMAL game.

I'm not convinced scum and do it convincingly. And the pressure needs to be on *you* to do the convincing.

Fuck you. There's a fucking day chat.

You didn't answer a single one of my questions above.

You answer them all in an honest and complete way and convince ME that it'll help you.

fuck you and eat shit.

[BunnyGo]

Suppose for sake of argument I say that I'm the tracker, and happened to track TheMad 2 nights ago and have no other useful intel. What does that help you read me?

Suppose I tell you in detail who I tracked every night? And say "no result" What does that help you read me?

Suppose I tell you I'm the watcher, and happened to watch Fox the night he was murdered. What does that help you?

Supposed I tell you everyone I watched and "nothing happened". What does that help you?

SCUM CAN MAKE IT ALL UP!! And do it convincingly.

This is NOT A NORMAL game.

I'm not convinced scum and do it convincingly. And the pressure needs to be on *you* to do the convincing.

Fuck you. There's a fucking day chat.

You didn't answer a single one of my questions above.

You answer them all in an honest and complete way and convince ME that it'll help you.

I refuse to play "move the goalposts" with you.

I already gave you intel. You didn't look.

I already explained to you how I'VE BEEN CONSIDERING how claiming an investigative role is weird, and you don't respond.

I already prompted you to think about it and gave you pointers to what I knew when. You ignore it.

So what happens next? Oh, I tell you everything, You say "bullshit"...fuck that.

[BunnyGo]

Fine.

I'm leaving. I won't be back.

Aaro was correct: I knew nothing else at the end of last night.

I knew Squigs was NOT tadpoled because I watched him the night the tadpole was given out and nobody went there.

The following night I learned that I was not allowed to watch Squigs on consecutive nights. That sucked.

I managed to watch Fox the night he died.

Only Monarch went there that night. In addition the GMs gave me flavor text saying she brutally murdered him.

None of the rest of my watches were memorable, I think I watched Jamie one night, and worcej one night, and dunno what else. Nothing happened the nights I watched.

##vote themadmonarch ##end

goodbye.

[Ezio]

I'm not convinced scum and do it convincingly. And the pressure needs to be on *you* to do the convincing.

Fuck you. There's a fucking day chat.

You didn't answer a single one of my questions above.

You answer them all in an honest and complete way and convince ME that it'll help you.

I refuse to play "move the goalposts" with you.

I already gave you intel. You didn't look.

I already explained to you how I'VE BEEN CONSIDERING how claiming an investigative role is weird, and you don't respond.

I already prompted you to think about it and gave you pointers to what I knew when. You ignore it.

So what happens next? Oh, I tell you everything, You say "bullshit"...fuck that.

I think it's telling you're convinced I will find you argument bullshit. I often believe players who give the full story of their game, yet you're absolutely convinced I'll find you scummy for it?

You've given exactly nothing concrete, except that you're convinced that Monarch is scum because you're a PR. You've given tons of hypothetical ways that might have happened, but haven't said which it was.

You've asked me to preemptively analyze all the possible arguments and game descriptions you might make. That is too hard and I'm not going to. I would much prefer to analyze the *actual* argument you make. The actual game in front of us.

I already spend like an hour going down the rabbit hole assuming you were just a rolecop only for you to be like "lol no".
I would have preferred to do this hours ago, but you've been playing this game, and I'm getting frustrated.