M89: Baldurs Gate Mafia Game Thread

[sweetandcool]

I think ezio early in the game said they would not participate unless being called upon and was flamed for it. Then seemed to control sorts of the middle game in participation. Now on sweet who I think is town. I think that the scum could a have of their players being more active at certain times to put people back into hiding. Same with the bona push on flav and then not saying too much. Dip was also sus of bona I think before dying (a lot of b names so I’m hesitant on that now)

Okay, so this is COMPLETELY WRONG ABOUT BONA'S PUSH ON FLAV.

Anyone can read the D3 EOD to see that Colby is making stuff up, whether as scum or town.

Colby you get to go down to my ANTI-TOWN.

What are you talking about. All I said is dip believe bona was scum I think and that he was adamant of getting flav out

Regardless of what his alignment ends up being, this is such a degrading comment by Food.

Anti-Town is now a fun sticker for players whose play he doesn't like. Disgusting.

[Col7by]

I think ezio early in the game said they would not participate unless being called upon and was flamed for it. Then seemed to control sorts of the middle game in participation. Now on sweet who I think is town. I think that the scum could a have of their players being more active at certain times to put people back into hiding. Same with the bona push on flav and then not saying too much. Dip was also sus of bona I think before dying (a lot of b names so I’m hesitant on that now)

Okay, so this is COMPLETELY WRONG ABOUT BONA'S PUSH ON FLAV.

Anyone can read the D3 EOD to see that Colby is making stuff up, whether as scum or town.

Colby you get to go down to my ANTI-TOWN.

Shit, I can't believe this.

I'm probably going to lose what audience I had, but it looks like Food is bringing it home for the scumteam.

And Colby looks Town.

Which makes Aaro Mafia, Bunny Mafia, Food Mafia, President Eden Mafia.

Hmmm, I'll have to see if this is an accurate reassessment.

I’m not sure on Eden but the rest I’m kind of on board with which also scares me

[Col7by]

Okay, so this is COMPLETELY WRONG ABOUT BONA'S PUSH ON FLAV.

Anyone can read the D3 EOD to see that Colby is making stuff up, whether as scum or town.

Colby you get to go down to my ANTI-TOWN.

Shit, I can't believe this.

I'm probably going to lose what audience I had, but it looks like Food is bringing it home for the scumteam.

And Colby looks Town.

Which makes Aaro Mafia, Bunny Mafia, Food Mafia, President Eden Mafia.

Hmmm, I'll have to see if this is an accurate reassessment.

What do you think is wrong with my post here criticizing Colby?

You never responded to my rebuttal I think you misread or I wasn’t clear with what I said

[foodcoats]

Okay, so this is COMPLETELY WRONG ABOUT BONA'S PUSH ON FLAV.

Anyone can read the D3 EOD to see that Colby is making stuff up, whether as scum or town.

Colby you get to go down to my ANTI-TOWN.

What are you talking about. All I said is dip believe bona was scum I think and that he was adamant of getting flav out

Regardless of what his alignment ends up being, this is such a degrading comment by Food.

Anti-Town is now a fun sticker for players whose play he doesn't like. Disgusting.

Um. Well… You’re right. What I don’t like is that Colby claims that bona showed up, pushed Flav, and disappeared. But bona was actually online aggressively pushing for Flav to be eliminated.

Quote:
“I think that the scum could a have of their players being more active at certain times to put people back into hiding. Same with the bona push on flav and then not saying too much.”

Colby did not actually read EOD3.

If I am misunderstanding, he can correct me. But what he seems to be saying is that, no, actually, he only scumreads Bona because Dip did. This is contradicting his earlier post.

It’s very not helpful.

[foodcoats]

Shit, I can't believe this.

I'm probably going to lose what audience I had, but it looks like Food is bringing it home for the scumteam.

And Colby looks Town.

Which makes Aaro Mafia, Bunny Mafia, Food Mafia, President Eden Mafia.

Hmmm, I'll have to see if this is an accurate reassessment.

What do you think is wrong with my post here criticizing Colby?

You never responded to my rebuttal I think you misread or I wasn’t clear with what I said

Okay, so in that case, to be clear, you scumread Bona for pushing Flav and because Dip scumread bona.

And you also scumread me, Bunny, and Aaro.

[sweetandcool]

What are you talking about. All I said is dip believe bona was scum I think and that he was adamant of getting flav out

Regardless of what his alignment ends up being, this is such a degrading comment by Food.

Anti-Town is now a fun sticker for players whose play he doesn't like. Disgusting.

Um. Well… You’re right. What I don’t like is that Colby claims that bona showed up, pushed Flav, and disappeared. But bona was actually online aggressively pushing for Flav to be eliminated.

Quote:
“I think that the scum could a have of their players being more active at certain times to put people back into hiding. Same with the bona push on flav and then not saying too much.”

Colby did not actually read EOD3.

If I am misunderstanding, he can correct me. But what he seems to be saying is that, no, actually, he only scumreads Bona because Dip did. This is contradicting his earlier post.

It’s very not helpful.

Tunneling three Town players is also "ANTI-TOWN" but I would never phrase it that way because it's actually just plain wrong or you are Mafia and purposely plain wrong.

[Col7by]

What do you think is wrong with my post here criticizing Colby?

You never responded to my rebuttal I think you misread or I wasn’t clear with what I said

Okay, so in that case, to be clear, you scumread Bona for pushing Flav and because Dip scumread bona.

And you also scumread me, Bunny, and Aaro.

I meant bona pushed flav and once he was elimmed he left. I also only scumread you because of the sudden lashing out on me that I couldn’t understand. Now that I see what happened I rescind it for now

[foodcoats]

Regardless of what his alignment ends up being, this is such a degrading comment by Food.

Anti-Town is now a fun sticker for players whose play he doesn't like. Disgusting.

Um. Well… You’re right. What I don’t like is that Colby claims that bona showed up, pushed Flav, and disappeared. But bona was actually online aggressively pushing for Flav to be eliminated.

Quote:
“I think that the scum could a have of their players being more active at certain times to put people back into hiding. Same with the bona push on flav and then not saying too much.”

Colby did not actually read EOD3.

If I am misunderstanding, he can correct me. But what he seems to be saying is that, no, actually, he only scumreads Bona because Dip did. This is contradicting his earlier post.

It’s very not helpful.

Tunneling three Town players is also "ANTI-TOWN" but I would never phrase it that way because it's actually just plain wrong or you are Mafia and purposely plain wrong.

I don’t think my basic scumread of you or Just is tunneled. I have noted in places where I have made additional deductions from assuming I am right about you or Just by calling it “tinfoil” or “tunneling.” But I think my basic reads are well founded.

Also, the reason I am thinking of it as “anti-town” was made pretty clear a while back. I don’t know why you are so morally offended by me trying to solve the game by using a process.

[foodcoats]

You never responded to my rebuttal I think you misread or I wasn’t clear with what I said

Okay, so in that case, to be clear, you scumread Bona for pushing Flav and because Dip scumread bona.

And you also scumread me, Bunny, and Aaro.

I meant bona pushed flav and once he was elimmed he left. I also only scumread you because of the sudden lashing out on me that I couldn’t understand. Now that I see what happened I rescind it for now

Okay, thank you for clarifying.

For me personally, I often need to step away if I see we eliminated a town. For example I was REALLY annoyed at myself when we flipped Dousing and I had to step away. I don’t think it is alignment indicative in and of itself.

[sweetandcool]

Um. Well… You’re right. What I don’t like is that Colby claims that bona showed up, pushed Flav, and disappeared. But bona was actually online aggressively pushing for Flav to be eliminated.

Quote:
“I think that the scum could a have of their players being more active at certain times to put people back into hiding. Same with the bona push on flav and then not saying too much.”

Colby did not actually read EOD3.

If I am misunderstanding, he can correct me. But what he seems to be saying is that, no, actually, he only scumreads Bona because Dip did. This is contradicting his earlier post.

It’s very not helpful.

Tunneling three Town players is also "ANTI-TOWN" but I would never phrase it that way because it's actually just plain wrong or you are Mafia and purposely plain wrong.

I don’t think my basic scumread of you or Just is tunneled. I have noted in places where I have made additional deductions from assuming I am right about you or Just by calling it “tinfoil” or “tunneling.” But I think my basic reads are well founded.

Also, the reason I am thinking of it as “anti-town” was made pretty clear a while back. I don’t know why you are so morally offended by me trying to solve the game by using a process.

Your "process" is to target players that you think haven't helped Town.

Monarch should be flipped because they lurk (doesn't affect their alignment)
Sweetandcool should be flipped because of fake claims (which is actually valid, but I've already proven why I am Town and you are ignoring every single thing that screams that truth).
Will should be flipped for essentially lurking (Mafia Will would probably not want to shake up their meta like this, so the lurking while unhelpful is NAI, but yeah, flip him because his play is crappy good choice).

And now you are extending your definition of Anti-Town to anyone who disagrees with you!

This is the worst process I have seen and pretty much embodies how horrible the voting has been this entire game.

[President Eden]

whatever

##vote sweetandcool

this doesn’t feel right. but it’s clear nothing else is happening until this does.

[Col7by]

whatever

##vote sweetandcool

this doesn’t feel right. but it’s clear nothing else is happening until this does.

If not sweet who do you prefer cause I’m willing but need to align

[sweetandcool]

Yeah I give up, good game scumteam.

##VOTE sweet
##END

Let's just end the game so I can see how right I was. I must have missed somebody, but given the solve was rushed that's not surprising.

[President Eden]

whatever

##vote sweetandcool

this doesn’t feel right. but it’s clear nothing else is happening until this does.

If not sweet who do you prefer cause I’m willing but need to align

Probably worcej, but I doubt we have the numbers, and I’m not even highly confident that he’s the best non-sweet shot anyway.

The brief argument for worc:
• Fox wanted it and has basically been the only consistent bright spot for town since I joined

• worc is historically insanely paranoid of me. I don’t remember the exact game now (I thought it was M80, but the public record of that game isn’t helpful; I think it was in the Discord server for that game) but there was a game not that long ago where I was outed town PR and worc, as another town PR, seriously weighed fakeclaiming guilty scan on me because he didn’t believe me. I think he had the ability to commute me and save me from a kill but intentionally didn’t do it because it allowed me to be nightkilled and flipped to resolve my alignment. (This part might be misremembered in fairness)
Point being dude is never comfortable with me being town while I’m alive lol. And I don’t fault him for that. Rather I “fault” that he seems not to have strong views on me or any concern about my alignment… that suggests to me he has the answers

[worcej]

whatever

##vote sweetandcool

this doesn’t feel right. but it’s clear nothing else is happening until this does.

If not sweet who do you prefer cause I’m willing but need to align

Probably worcej, but I doubt we have the numbers, and I’m not even highly confident that he’s the best non-sweet shot anyway.

The brief argument for worc:
• Fox wanted it and has basically been the only consistent bright spot for town since I joined

• worc is historically insanely paranoid of me. I don’t remember the exact game now (I thought it was M80, but the public record of that game isn’t helpful; I think it was in the Discord server for that game) but there was a game not that long ago where I was outed town PR and worc, as another town PR, seriously weighed fakeclaiming guilty scan on me because he didn’t believe me. I think he had the ability to commute me and save me from a kill but intentionally didn’t do it because it allowed me to be nightkilled and flipped to resolve my alignment. (This part might be misremembered in fairness)
Point being dude is never comfortable with me being town while I’m alive lol. And I don’t fault him for that. Rather I “fault” that he seems not to have strong views on me or any concern about my alignment… that suggests to me he has the answers

Your memory isn't too far off - I was overly paranoid of you in that PR game and it wasn't one of my best games because of my hyper tunneling on you. Since those games (I think they were in the M60's, but don't quote me on that), I've tried to work on not tunneling as a player - I don't want to death tunnel and try to keep my eyes open and entertain other reasoning.

In terms of me being paranoid now, I'm just not because you've been over-shadowed by other's actions to me. You're not playing the same as you used to and I don't feel like you're engaged with the game like you used to be. I always cringed at your logic and reasoning but you're not really doing that this game.

Perhaps my weakness this game is focusing too much on the low participants (yoyo, Dousing, and Monarch) while voting mostly to protect my townreads. I've felt like I've had to not vote my town reads more than actually vote people I think are scum.

[BunnyGo]

Just got a break at work.

The drama.

I trust not a thing Mad wrote.

I trust sweet not at all.

Glad the sweet wagon took off.

##vote sweet

If there’s a surprise, happy to switch to TheMad.

[BunnyGo]

whatever

##vote sweetandcool

this doesn’t feel right. but it’s clear nothing else is happening until this does.

If not sweet who do you prefer cause I’m willing but need to align

Mad

[Col7by]

If not sweet who do you prefer cause I’m willing but need to align

Probably worcej, but I doubt we have the numbers, and I’m not even highly confident that he’s the best non-sweet shot anyway.

The brief argument for worc:
• Fox wanted it and has basically been the only consistent bright spot for town since I joined

• worc is historically insanely paranoid of me. I don’t remember the exact game now (I thought it was M80, but the public record of that game isn’t helpful; I think it was in the Discord server for that game) but there was a game not that long ago where I was outed town PR and worc, as another town PR, seriously weighed fakeclaiming guilty scan on me because he didn’t believe me. I think he had the ability to commute me and save me from a kill but intentionally didn’t do it because it allowed me to be nightkilled and flipped to resolve my alignment. (This part might be misremembered in fairness)
Point being dude is never comfortable with me being town while I’m alive lol. And I don’t fault him for that. Rather I “fault” that he seems not to have strong views on me or any concern about my alignment… that suggests to me he has the answers

Your memory isn't too far off - I was overly paranoid of you in that PR game and it wasn't one of my best games because of my hyper tunneling on you. Since those games (I think they were in the M60's, but don't quote me on that), I've tried to work on not tunneling as a player - I don't want to death tunnel and try to keep my eyes open and entertain other reasoning.

In terms of me being paranoid now, I'm just not because you've been over-shadowed by other's actions to me. You're not playing the same as you used to and I don't feel like you're engaged with the game like you used to be. I always cringed at your logic and reasoning but you're not really doing that this game.

Perhaps my weakness this game is focusing too much on the low participants (yoyo, Dousing, and Monarch) while voting mostly to protect my townreads. I've felt like I've had to not vote my town reads more than actually vote people I think are scum.

So are you locked in on sweet or can we move off to another target. With us three and sweet we can swing someone else out today

[BunnyGo]

whatever

##vote sweetandcool

this doesn’t feel right. but it’s clear nothing else is happening until this does.

Fine.

I don’t want a sweet wagon collapse. But if it’s coming. ##vote themad. Good alternative.

[worcej]

[...Snip...]

I decided that today if I came under pressure I would fake claim a harmless PR, and Iatrophibe seemed perfect. It was purely self defense rather than any sort of reaction test. I have heard claims of it being a way to possibly draw out Town PRs. However, this scum tactic has literally never been employed in all of my games (over 10 games). I think fear of this tactic has caused veteran players to be unreasonably fearful of Town Fakeclaims. Last game Town would have been eviscerated if I, the Town PR, hadn't been willing to roleswap with two different players.

So yeah, not going to apologize for my claims, though yes my execution of the Iatrophobe claim was disgusting due to unforseen business IRL.

I've been a vocal proponent/pusher that town players should never fake a PR claim just to save themselves and that it's anti-town because it can blow up and cause either a PR to CC the person or blow a miskill on the second highest wagon at some point.

Just look at my death last game as verification of my commitment to this ideology - I ensured I died so that you (The PR that broke the game open as you already know) would live because I knew my death would help the gamestate move forward.

The fact you did the cop scan claim shit and then this self defense move doesn't make me think you're town, it leads me to conclude you're more likely the last scum PR that hadn't been used yet and are just desperately trying to live.

However, my fake claim actually has absolved me:

1. I claimed Iatrophobe. Page 323, 3:02 time left.
2. Vecna is the first person to (vaguely) acknowledge my claim. Page 328, 1:44 time left.
3. Literally nobody reacts to my claim and the next mention is by me. Page 332, 25 minutes left.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Suppose sweetandcool is Mafia. Mafia have Daychat. So Mafia knows sweetandcool is going to claim Iatrophobe. With 3:02 left of the phase sweetandcool makes his claim.

Town doesn't acknowledge the claim. Mafia doesn't acknowledge the claim because:

1. Mafia is COMPLETELY AFK (fucking unlikely)
2. Mafia doesn't want to look bad in retrospect when sweetandcool eventually flips).
3. Insert reason I can't think of.

Town doesn't acknowledge the claim because most town players suck ass at identifying soft-claims. I'm so bad at seeing non-hardclaims when I am town because I'm not looking for them, I'm looking for scum. It's a completely different mindset - I've discussed this in detail in a GT before and stand by it.

Is (2) reasonable?
No, not really.

We have seen plenty examples in this game and others where players of any alignment miss out on crucial game developments, mainly vig shots. A great example is Bunny just recently finding out that Fox claimed Archer. Or when the Balki v Dip duel occured several people had to be told what was happening. Generally when a PR claim occurs it is not uncommon to tell people about it.

My claim was ignored so it would have been natural for someone, be they Town or Mafia, to point it out at some point. With me being a top wagon, I find it hard to believe my scummates would not nudge the info for 2.5 hours. And instead I would have to come back on, despite being desperately busy IRL, and claim again.

Basically, you would have to believe the scum team was literally AFK for the last three hours of the day or the scum team was performing a major Fuck You towards sweetandcool, or it was planned in advance that sweetandcool would be absolved by the very case I am putting before you now.
-------------------------------------------------------

Look, I know I've been shit, but I'm not the shit you need to DK.

I don't think scum need to point anything out here because of the daychat. They can log it there and leave it out of the thread.

You've been preaching the value of daychat so much but seem to not employ it here. Why?