M89: Baldurs Gate Mafia Game Thread

[aarodactyl]

so sad

You have no idea. We also lost the softball game and I was the last out. Tragic stuff.

Also I see a lot of posts about saying food is scum. I think they’re silly because I feel like the d3 speed wagon doesn’t happen if food is scum.

I don’t see any food votes atm so maybe people understand this but we should absolutely not vote out food today just on the basis they’re PR. There’s a good chance, we’ll be able to sort them eventually once enough other PR flips.

what's your OBP

.500 that game. Only had 2 PA though

[aarodactyl]

i think at a certain point we need to accept that food shouldn't be a dk, but he cannot be in lylo

I agree. My only caveat would be that being PR gives a chance for him to end up as a town clear

no it doesn't

It’s unlikely but possible

[aarodactyl]

@food: can you ask ghug what his favorite variant of Sam Haggerty is?

[sweetandcool]

First, I want to apologize for the Dousing kill. I had little time to process and nobody who came to mind I particularly wanted to vote, so I voted the main counterwagon even though in a more sane state of mind I would have pushed hard for someone better. Dousing generally seemed Town to me this game, he was acting "normal", but I hadn't thought of him much, so when my discipline slipped I allowed myself to make a terrible vote.

I decided that today if I came under pressure I would fake claim a harmless PR, and Iatrophibe seemed perfect. It was purely self defense rather than any sort of reaction test. I have heard claims of it being a way to possibly draw out Town PRs. However, this scum tactic has literally never been employed in all of my games (over 10 games). I think fear of this tactic has caused veteran players to be unreasonably fearful of Town Fakeclaims. Last game Town would have been eviscerated if I, the Town PR, hadn't been willing to roleswap with two different players.

So yeah, not going to apologize for my claims, though yes my execution of the Iatrophobe claim was disgusting due to unforseen business IRL.

However, my fake claim actually has absolved me:

1. I claimed Iatrophobe. Page 323, 3:02 time left.
2. Vecna is the first person to (vaguely) acknowledge my claim. Page 328, 1:44 time left.
3. Literally nobody reacts to my claim and the next mention is by me. Page 332, 25 minutes left.
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Suppose sweetandcool is Mafia. Mafia have Daychat. So Mafia knows sweetandcool is going to claim Iatrophobe. With 3:02 left of the phase sweetandcool makes his claim.

Town doesn't acknowledge the claim. Mafia doesn't acknowledge the claim because:

1. Mafia is COMPLETELY AFK (fucking unlikely)
2. Mafia doesn't want to look bad in retrospect when sweetandcool eventually flips).
3. Insert reason I can't think of.

Is (2) reasonable?
No, not really.

We have seen plenty examples in this game and others where players of any alignment miss out on crucial game developments, mainly vig shots. A great example is Bunny just recently finding out that Fox claimed Archer. Or when the Balki v Dip duel occured several people had to be told what was happening. Generally when a PR claim occurs it is not uncommon to tell people about it.

My claim was ignored so it would have been natural for someone, be they Town or Mafia, to point it out at some point. With me being a top wagon, I find it hard to believe my scummates would not nudge the info for 2.5 hours. And instead I would have to come back on, despite being desperately busy IRL, and claim again.

Basically, you would have to believe the scum team was literally AFK for the last three hours of the day or the scum team was performing a major Fuck You towards sweetandcool, or it was planned in advance that sweetandcool would be absolved by the very case I am putting before you now.
-------------------------------------------------------

Look, I know I've been shit, but I'm not the shit you need to DK.

[sweetandcool]

Now, I can't promise my play will improve (though it will be better than the last two days phases), but I have done some work this night and I can confidently say I have confidently come to accurate reads on three players so far. Two are definitely Town and one definitely Mafia.

I don't want to help them by blowing my load before EoN, but I think I can present convincing albeit petite cases. With my limited time I can't build giant cases, but I really really hope I can help make accurate reads that I can also convince others of.

[President Eden]

First of all, source on the claim that town driven = active player kill. That doesn’t pass muster.
You even handwave d1 when that day theoretically should be the best day to observe trends like that; town have little to go on and hit the nail sticking out the farthest, while mafia go for uncontroversial kills on inactive to avoid committing to stances on active players.

Second, you know food, Fox, and Ezio were the main drivers of d5 right? You’ve got them all in town or town leans. So by your own reads you can’t really say d5 was scum driven. I guess you want to pin it all on me and sweet and aaro, but that just doesn’t track with what actually happened.

i don't have a list of evidence, but it's my intuition from having been here since 2020.

are you scumreading me?

You’re in my current POE, so to some degree yes. But I don’t have high confidence that my current POE is a correct solve.

[foodcoats]

i see three people died actually?? (bongo vindicated in not reading past the first line)

well done to whoever on vecna

guys i'm almost to 5000 karma, please +1 me

also why couldn't flum be stephen harper

This might be a scum slip. Flum was saying in the graveyard how he wanted brain to make him Stephen of the Harpers. It’s a pretty obvious joke but Flum SPECIFICALLY said this is what he wanted.

[foodcoats]

i see three people died actually?? (bongo vindicated in not reading past the first line)

well done to whoever on vecna

guys i'm almost to 5000 karma, please +1 me

also why couldn't flum be stephen harper

This might be a scum slip. Flum was saying in the graveyard how he wanted brain to make him Stephen of the Harpers. It’s a pretty obvious joke but Flum SPECIFICALLY said this is what he wanted.

It’s actually MORE of a slip because Flum was NOT a Harper.

Anyway this doesn’t really change where bona is in my POE at the moment. There are more important players to clear up.

[foodcoats]

I think sweet or Will has to be the elim tomorrow.* MM won’t give up a lot of info. We have to play moneyball though and elim the anti-town.

*I realized some people call DKs “condemns” and I think I like “eliminations” as a friendly more sporting less violent term.

[foodcoats]

Now, I can't promise my play will improve (though it will be better than the last two days phases), but I have done some work this night and I can confidently say I have confidently come to accurate reads on three players so far. Two are definitely Town and one definitely Mafia.

I don't want to help them by blowing my load before EoN, but I think I can present convincing albeit petite cases. With my limited time I can't build giant cases, but I really really hope I can help make accurate reads that I can also convince others of.

Please give us your reads on as many players as possible. If you are town that will help us.

[President Eden]

also why couldn’t flum be stephen harper

This might be a scum slip. Flum was saying in the graveyard how he wanted brain to make him Stephen of the Harpers. It’s a pretty obvious joke but Flum SPECIFICALLY said this is what he wanted.

It’s actually MORE of a slip because Flum was NOT a Harper.

Anyway this doesn’t really change where bona is in my POE at the moment. There are more important players to clear up.

eh i would pump the brakes on this take

i didn’t think of the stephen harper joke until someone else made it, cuz i’m not sophisticated, but “why couldn’t the canadian player be stephen harper” is a pretty easy leap to make for anyone

[foodcoats]

This might be a scum slip. Flum was saying in the graveyard how he wanted brain to make him Stephen of the Harpers. It’s a pretty obvious joke but Flum SPECIFICALLY said this is what he wanted.

It’s actually MORE of a slip because Flum was NOT a Harper.

Anyway this doesn’t really change where bona is in my POE at the moment. There are more important players to clear up.

eh i would pump the brakes on this take

i didn’t think of the stephen harper joke until someone else made it, cuz i’m not sophisticated, but “why couldn’t the canadian player be stephen harper” is a pretty easy leap to make for anyone

Yes, I’m just noting it as a small tick, perhaps as a minor quibble later if we don’t lose in the next two voting rounds. This does not change my POE. Unless there is a massive changeup today, I will only vote sweet, Will, or MM.

[foodcoats]

i think at a certain point we need to accept that food shouldn't be a dk, but he cannot be in lylo

Who do you think is better in LYLO, me or MadMonarch?

macca tbh

So I have to point out how bad this take is by Bona. MM is basically not playing the game, so it is extremely bad for town if MM ends up in the endgame. MM would not discuss or argue or make valid points and would probably place an ill-considered vote. MM is extremely bad for town, irrespective of actual alignment.

I do not necessarily think Bona’s statement is alignment indicative, but it IS part of the issue. There is a meta here that is extremely permissive of anti-town behaviour. This is part of why towns here lose without investigative roles. I fully admit I have adopted this kind of bad behaviour at times WHEN I HAVE ROLLED TOWN. I am realizing now how terrible that is. It massively undermines town. But I think this is actually a meta issue, where anti-town behaviour is acceptable.

I get it is a social game and we want to have fun and make jokes. I don’t want to take that away - it is part of the joy of the game here. But if we want town to win we need to stop rewarding scummy behaviour.

[BunnyGo]

First, I want to apologize for the Dousing kill. I had little time to process and nobody who came to mind I particularly wanted to vote, so I voted the main counterwagon even though in a more sane state of mind I would have pushed hard for someone better. Dousing generally seemed Town to me this game, he was acting "normal", but I hadn't thought of him much, so when my discipline slipped I allowed myself to make a terrible vote.

I decided that today if I came under pressure I would fake claim a harmless PR, and Iatrophibe seemed perfect. It was purely self defense rather than any sort of reaction test. I have heard claims of it being a way to possibly draw out Town PRs. However, this scum tactic has literally never been employed in all of my games (over 10 games). I think fear of this tactic has caused veteran players to be unreasonably fearful of Town Fakeclaims. Last game Town would have been eviscerated if I, the Town PR, hadn't been willing to roleswap with two different players.

So yeah, not going to apologize for my claims, though yes my execution of the Iatrophobe claim was disgusting due to unforseen business IRL.

However, my fake claim actually has absolved me:

1. I claimed Iatrophobe. Page 323, 3:02 time left.
2. Vecna is the first person to (vaguely) acknowledge my claim. Page 328, 1:44 time left.
3. Literally nobody reacts to my claim and the next mention is by me. Page 332, 25 minutes left.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Suppose sweetandcool is Mafia. Mafia have Daychat. So Mafia knows sweetandcool is going to claim Iatrophobe. With 3:02 left of the phase sweetandcool makes his claim.

Town doesn't acknowledge the claim. Mafia doesn't acknowledge the claim because:

1. Mafia is COMPLETELY AFK (fucking unlikely)
2. Mafia doesn't want to look bad in retrospect when sweetandcool eventually flips).
3. Insert reason I can't think of.

Is (2) reasonable?
No, not really.

We have seen plenty examples in this game and others where players of any alignment miss out on crucial game developments, mainly vig shots. A great example is Bunny just recently finding out that Fox claimed Archer. Or when the Balki v Dip duel occured several people had to be told what was happening. Generally when a PR claim occurs it is not uncommon to tell people about it.

My claim was ignored so it would have been natural for someone, be they Town or Mafia, to point it out at some point. With me being a top wagon, I find it hard to believe my scummates would not nudge the info for 2.5 hours. And instead I would have to come back on, despite being desperately busy IRL, and claim again.

Basically, you would have to believe the scum team was literally AFK for the last three hours of the day or the scum team was performing a major Fuck You towards sweetandcool, or it was planned in advance that sweetandcool would be absolved by the very case I am putting before you now.
-------------------------------------------------------

Look, I know I've been shit, but I'm not the shit you need to DK.

This is such horse shit.

Sweet is a SOLVER.

Sweet is someone who PRIDES THEMSELF ON BEING GOOD AT MATH AND PUZZLES.

There is 0 chance Sweet hasn't been keeping track of PRs and their alignments for solving if he's town.

Hence Sweet = Scum.

I will be voting Sweet tomorrow. The only reason I won't be ending is that I want the game to slow down a little.

[foodcoats]

I realize I surely sound holier-than-thou. I am working through my thought process of how to play better next time as I admittedly think we are cooked. Nonetheless I will be playing out the game with this mentality and not trying to make hero calls on people who are playing more townie.

[President Eden]

I realize I surely sound holier-than-thou. I am working through my thought process of how to play better next time as I admittedly think we are cooked. Nonetheless I will be playing out the game with this mentality and not trying to make hero calls on people who are playing more townie.

You don’t sound that way to me lol.

I have ~thoughts~ on this, but they’re more abstract and fart-sniffing than is appropriate for this moment. Also they sound quite defeatist in this context when I don’t want to be!

Remind me postgame if you care (no offense taken if not)

[foodcoats]

I realize I surely sound holier-than-thou. I am working through my thought process of how to play better next time as I admittedly think we are cooked. Nonetheless I will be playing out the game with this mentality and not trying to make hero calls on people who are playing more townie.

You don’t sound that way to me lol.

I have ~thoughts~ on this, but they’re more abstract and fart-sniffing than is appropriate for this moment. Also they sound quite defeatist in this context when I don’t want to be!

Remind me postgame if you care (no offense taken if not)

I'm always down for a good fart sniffing. I wish I had been thinking more strategically earlier in the game and I want to go into the next one with a better approach.

What's funny is that even as I'm thinking about this I'm thinking how it would hurt my "scum meta." I've been lucky to dodge rolling scum lately and I feel like my number is up. But overall statistically one is just going to be town more often, and adopting pro-town behaviours and strats is going to get more town wins down the line.

[foodcoats]

Also, sorry if I am being defeatist. Maybe we will pull it out after all. I think we have some people we are forced to deal with sooner or later and we are a bit stuck in that we can't really afford to get it wrong now... so that is why I am thinking we are a bit stuck. But perhaps if we flip some scum we will end up with a better POE.

[TheMadMonarch]

Hey Team! Sorry about missing today (N5). I had a 9 hour shift at work today .

[TheMadMonarch]

i think at a certain point we need to accept that food shouldn't be a dk, but he cannot be in lylo

So you think he should be NK'd? What is your point here?