M89: Baldurs Gate Mafia Game Thread

[Col7by]

Ok. Thoughts on what has happened and current state of game.


Day 1 was a zoo. Hard to follow. Hard to keep up. Lots of stuff. And we ended TvTvTvT as top 4 wagons. We had other opportunities before. But that’s what it was.

So I think scum were probably fairly still after those lead wagons settled out. Let the town run around and look like they’re saving someone. But hard to tell that apart from not around.


Day 2 was another crazy day. Vig hit on town. The fact it was a wagon from day 1 and a wagon day 2 suggests vig is town trying to clear things up. I hope they eliminate Eden tomorrow.

The unknown BM is confusing for VCA, the play by D&W was interesting.


Lots of arguments, yelling, analysis about the arguments, it’s only just recently become less of a zoo.


The necromancer day 3 I’ll stand by that we should assume ghug was town for mech reasons unless told otherwise, but the necromancer should be in no rush to tell us if he was scum. I believe it was a town shot either way.

So that leaves AT LEAST 2 scum powers left (if my view is correct). I expect one of them is a vote manipulation power (immune to a day or double vote for a day).


As for reads:

I think sweet started town; I’m worried he accepts the tadpole.

I think squigs started town and was not even offered the tadpole because he wouldn’t accept.

I think worcej is town. His frustration progressions and posts are solid town!worc

I think food is town. I see effort, and developments.

I think Flum is town; his push on me is too haphazard for scum!flum

I didn’t think Vecna was town until tonight. His posts improved a lot. I’m still worried, but N3 was an improvement.

I think Dousing is WAY TOO focused on himself. If he’s town, he’s not helping, and if he’s scum….this tracks.

I think Colby is smarter than he’s pretending. But this game has been a zoo…so maybe he just really is confused. @Colby: explore the bot.

I think Just is capable of changing his game play style, but this seems townier to me.

I like Mad’s posts tonight.

I like Bona’s attitude and energy. Seems towny. But he’s fooled me before.

I like demon’s energy. But I’m wondering where he went.

I think aaro is scum. I believe his outside things are going to distract him, but his game so far seems like what I expect scum!aaro to do.

So…my POE is Jamie, aaro, eden, yo-yo, Dousin, Colby.

Humbly request vig shoots in there. Preferably Eden. Or Yoyo.

I appreciate the compliment. Let me use the bot more so I’m less confused and more helpful to conversations

[Col7by]

Can someone explain OMGUS to me plz?

[Yoyoyozo]

Can someone explain OMGUS to me plz?

Absolutely nasty work

[Ezio]

I’m going to spam this because Ezio left the chat after trying to get everyone to keep bantering pointlessly about the BM instead of answering me.

Ezio specifically claimed that he scumread HB for reasons that, actually, Dip and War and Jamie scumread HB, and which he only quoted AFTER voting HB - and in which quotes he didn’t seem to agree that the conclusion was HB was scum. It feels like Ezio was open to a different vote, for one reason or another.

(Obviously in my conclusion, because he is scum and the HB vote was inauthentic - which also explains why his memory of it is wrong. Perhaps he and Jamie are scum together, and the HB thing is something they discussed in daychat, but Ezio is forgetting he didn’t actually write it up in the game thread.)

What are you talking about? I did not "explicitly state I scumread HB for the same reasons as Jamie and others". The only person who posted about this specific oddity was Flum who noticed it and called it out immediately.
I questioned Jamiet because if he was scum reading HB for putting someone in both townreads and scumreads I was going to have a fit, as that's just poor play, not scum play.
I was searching for inauthentic/shitty reasons to vote HB because I agree that's a good place to look for scum.

You're saying you read my iso. You saw me explain my justification for the vote later. I think it was D2.

Sorry Ezio I now do see the difference between your and Jamie’s reads - I only grabbed one of the quotes and I realized it is Dip whose argument you seem to be against even though it is similar to why you scumread HB:

HB wagon is largely based off his weird readlists, which seem to be heavily reactionary.
Damo wagon is based on the way he reacted to some criticism or other of Jamiet's
lfischl wagon is based off whatever lfischl wagon is based off
Out of these three (and the 4th place, the Fluminator wagon, to which I say Fluminator), the HB wagon is just the strongest.

Either way Ham is really not doing anything good. His play so far is basically just scumreading everyone who scumreads him and then making up reasons for scumreading us.

Are read lists not supposed to be reactionary? What else are they supposed to be?

I wish you were actually active D1, and didnt end up voting for someone so critical in the end game; do you have an actual reason why you lurked D1, or were you just content watching us tear each other up

Work was busy so I wasn't going to be able to defend the nokill vote like I normally do.
I think HB was the best vote on d1. He made an argument that he was a wagon to save Damo, and didn't push Damo. Making an argument that someone is scum but not acting upon the belief that person is scum is in line with how I view scumplay: making posts for the sake of posts but not actually saying anything.
Sadly I suppose it also lines up with illogical play, which looks like what was the case here.

Overall it is a weird progression for you to vote HB, debate other scumreads of HB, and explain your vote on HB after the flip in a way that is similar to one you debated. No, these reasons are not exactly parroted, but it is strange that you seemed to undermine the wagon you were on and not explain your own vote until the following day and your logic is not REALLY so different from the logics you criticize.

You might just be a very different town player than I am! I always aim to explain give even a CRAPPY reason why I am scumming/voting someone. I also don’t tend to undermine other people who seem to suspect the same scum as me.

Did you scumread Dip and Jamie D1? Would that explain your progression there of undermining other people with the same scum read as you?

I argue there is a *world* of difference between my reason and voting someone for being reactionary and vague.
I voted HB because there was a logical inference I expect bad scum players to make, that he failed to make. It was something only slightly subtle, so I wouldn't expect everyone to make it.

I don't have millions of scumreads d1. I consider myself lucky if I find 1 person to vote. I'm infamous on the site for voting nokill d1.

[foodcoats]

@Food: I'm reading up on the thread and I just saw your post here: https://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=410353#p410353
(not quoting because it's super long)

I think you're misunderstanding my case on Flum. It has nothing to do with VCA from D3. It's all about the VCA from D1. To rehash my argument (which I've made several times in this thread so far), 30 minutes out from EOD1, the wagons were HB v Flum v Damo v Flav. At this point, I'm pretty sure that BM is scum since they would have claimed by now. Additionally, I have no idea why scum BM wouldn't use their power on a TvTvTvT D1. As a result, flav flipping town makes flum look incredibly scummy to me.

Ah, that’s an interesting take. I did not understand that. Thank you! This definitely makes more sense.

Although I disagree that BM would claim. PRs really do not need to claim this early in the game.

[foodcoats]

What are you talking about? I did not "explicitly state I scumread HB for the same reasons as Jamie and others". The only person who posted about this specific oddity was Flum who noticed it and called it out immediately.
I questioned Jamiet because if he was scum reading HB for putting someone in both townreads and scumreads I was going to have a fit, as that's just poor play, not scum play.
I was searching for inauthentic/shitty reasons to vote HB because I agree that's a good place to look for scum.

You're saying you read my iso. You saw me explain my justification for the vote later. I think it was D2.

Sorry Ezio I now do see the difference between your and Jamie’s reads - I only grabbed one of the quotes and I realized it is Dip whose argument you seem to be against even though it is similar to why you scumread HB:

Are read lists not supposed to be reactionary? What else are they supposed to be?

Work was busy so I wasn't going to be able to defend the nokill vote like I normally do.
I think HB was the best vote on d1. He made an argument that he was a wagon to save Damo, and didn't push Damo. Making an argument that someone is scum but not acting upon the belief that person is scum is in line with how I view scumplay: making posts for the sake of posts but not actually saying anything.
Sadly I suppose it also lines up with illogical play, which looks like what was the case here.

Overall it is a weird progression for you to vote HB, debate other scumreads of HB, and explain your vote on HB after the flip in a way that is similar to one you debated. No, these reasons are not exactly parroted, but it is strange that you seemed to undermine the wagon you were on and not explain your own vote until the following day and your logic is not REALLY so different from the logics you criticize.

You might just be a very different town player than I am! I always aim to explain give even a CRAPPY reason why I am scumming/voting someone. I also don’t tend to undermine other people who seem to suspect the same scum as me.

Did you scumread Dip and Jamie D1? Would that explain your progression there of undermining other people with the same scum read as you?

I argue there is a *world* of difference between my reason and voting someone for being reactionary and vague.
I voted HB because there was a logical inference I expect bad scum players to make, that he failed to make. It was something only slightly subtle, so I wouldn't expect everyone to make it.

I don't have millions of scumreads d1. I consider myself lucky if I find 1 person to vote. I'm infamous on the site for voting nokill d1.

So wait, you voted HB because you thought he was a good scum player?

[Col7by]

Can someone explain OMGUS to me plz?

Absolutely nasty work

So many acronyms I just learned WIFOM yesterday lol (wife in front of me thanks Jamie I think you told me?)

[President Eden]

Can someone explain OMGUS to me plz?

Absolutely nasty work

So many acronyms I just learned WIFOM yesterday lol (wife in front of me thanks Jamie I think you told me?)

So close.

OMGUS = Oh My God, Ur Scum. Basically, player B accuses player A of being mafia because player A accused player B of being mafia.

[Col7by]

Absolutely nasty work

So many acronyms I just learned WIFOM yesterday lol (wife in front of me thanks Jamie I think you told me?)

So close.

OMGUS = Oh My God, Ur Scum. Basically, player B accuses player A of being mafia because player A accused player B of being mafia.

Ohh I see okay I mean that seems pretty coming in this game lol

[Ezio]

Sorry Ezio I now do see the difference between your and Jamie’s reads - I only grabbed one of the quotes and I realized it is Dip whose argument you seem to be against even though it is similar to why you scumread HB:





Overall it is a weird progression for you to vote HB, debate other scumreads of HB, and explain your vote on HB after the flip in a way that is similar to one you debated. No, these reasons are not exactly parroted, but it is strange that you seemed to undermine the wagon you were on and not explain your own vote until the following day and your logic is not REALLY so different from the logics you criticize.

You might just be a very different town player than I am! I always aim to explain give even a CRAPPY reason why I am scumming/voting someone. I also don’t tend to undermine other people who seem to suspect the same scum as me.

Did you scumread Dip and Jamie D1? Would that explain your progression there of undermining other people with the same scum read as you?

I argue there is a *world* of difference between my reason and voting someone for being reactionary and vague.
I voted HB because there was a logical inference I expect bad scum players to make, that he failed to make. It was something only slightly subtle, so I wouldn't expect everyone to make it.

I don't have millions of scumreads d1. I consider myself lucky if I find 1 person to vote. I'm infamous on the site for voting nokill d1.

So wait, you voted HB because you thought he was a good scum player?

Gah I flipped a word in my explanation. It should say "I voted HB because there was a logical inference I expect bad scum players to [miss], that he failed to make."

[Yoyoyozo]

My instinct tells me Colby and Aero have opposing alignments.

[Yoyoyozo]

I think I’m just overthinking though.

[aarodactyl]

Ok. Thoughts on what has happened and current state of game.


Day 1 was a zoo. Hard to follow. Hard to keep up. Lots of stuff. And we ended TvTvTvT as top 4 wagons. We had other opportunities before. But that’s what it was.

So I think scum were probably fairly still after those lead wagons settled out. Let the town run around and look like they’re saving someone. But hard to tell that apart from not around.


Day 2 was another crazy day. Vig hit on town. The fact it was a wagon from day 1 and a wagon day 2 suggests vig is town trying to clear things up. I hope they eliminate Eden tomorrow.

The unknown BM is confusing for VCA, the play by D&W was interesting.


Lots of arguments, yelling, analysis about the arguments, it’s only just recently become less of a zoo.


The necromancer day 3 I’ll stand by that we should assume ghug was town for mech reasons unless told otherwise, but the necromancer should be in no rush to tell us if he was scum. I believe it was a town shot either way.

So that leaves AT LEAST 2 scum powers left (if my view is correct). I expect one of them is a vote manipulation power (immune to a day or double vote for a day).


As for reads:

I think sweet started town; I’m worried he accepts the tadpole.

I think squigs started town and was not even offered the tadpole because he wouldn’t accept.

I think worcej is town. His frustration progressions and posts are solid town!worc

I think food is town. I see effort, and developments.

I think Flum is town; his push on me is too haphazard for scum!flum

I didn’t think Vecna was town until tonight. His posts improved a lot. I’m still worried, but N3 was an improvement.

I think Dousing is WAY TOO focused on himself. If he’s town, he’s not helping, and if he’s scum….this tracks.

I think Colby is smarter than he’s pretending. But this game has been a zoo…so maybe he just really is confused. @Colby: explore the bot.

I think Just is capable of changing his game play style, but this seems townier to me.

I like Mad’s posts tonight.

I like Bona’s attitude and energy. Seems towny. But he’s fooled me before.

I like demon’s energy. But I’m wondering where he went.

I think aaro is scum. I believe his outside things are going to distract him, but his game so far seems like what I expect scum!aaro to do.

So…my POE is Jamie, aaro, eden, yo-yo, Dousin, Colby.

Humbly request vig shoots in there. Preferably Eden. Or Yoyo.

Honestly, this post is really confusing to me. I'm the only person you explicitly say you think is scum. And then you have a 6 person POE where you don't even mention your reads on 3 of the players (eden, yoyo, and jamie). And then you say that you want vig to shoot Eden or Yoyo. It feels weird you'd mentioned them over me considering you didn't even include them in your reads list.

Am I just missing something? Are you just wanting to Flip the Fill-Ins?

[BunnyGo]

I feel like there is 1 major factor that has town divided right now: half of us think the battlemaster was scum, and therefore D2 analysis is invalid (or outright flipped) after the duel.
The other half of us think the battlemaster was town, and therefore VCA after duel is a the most valuable information.
It's a tough one to solve, because even if the battlemaster claims we can't know if they're town or not.

Don’t you think the lack of any claims at this point almost exclusively make the actions from scum at this point?

Quite the opposite in fact

[worcej]

Update I apparently can't read

Apparently you’re quick enough to catch your mistake

[Ezio]

I feel like there is 1 major factor that has town divided right now: half of us think the battlemaster was scum, and therefore D2 analysis is invalid (or outright flipped) after the duel.
The other half of us think the battlemaster was town, and therefore VCA after duel is a the most valuable information.
It's a tough one to solve, because even if the battlemaster claims we can't know if they're town or not.

Don’t you think the lack of any claims at this point almost exclusively make the actions from scum at this point?

Quite the opposite in fact

Why? You think a town BM is more likely to hold their claim?

[BunnyGo]

My view on the game is it’s been very hard to decipher what has happened because of the battle master and other power roles used that haven’t given us as much info as normal kills would have. I think the flav vote is the best actual vote we can gather the most information from. Everyone seems to be collapsing in each other and nitpicking because of the lack of information we have gained. I think the key things to look at are balki supporters/dip haters D2 before battle master and the chaos during the flav vote

Ok. What did you learn from the Flav vote?

I need to do a deeper dive but I think that bona was for sure tunneling at least. Don’t love the last minute flipping from you, will and I think someone else but need to read the votes again. I think it was good to get another wagon in play but it got SO much traction SO quick that I think some scum had to have hopped on and to look there first. Some could be hiding on Fox but I think it’s start with the flav ones

Why do you think I voted and jumped around like I did?

[aarodactyl]

Can someone explain OMGUS to me plz?

Oh. Did you ask this a while ago too? I think I remember reading someone asking about it while catching up at some point and I figured someone else would have answered it.

##vote ghug

Oh My God U Suck

[BunnyGo]

My instinct tells me Colby and Aero have opposing alignments.

Why?

[worcej]

I feel like there is 1 major factor that has town divided right now: half of us think the battlemaster was scum, and therefore D2 analysis is invalid (or outright flipped) after the duel.
The other half of us think the battlemaster was town, and therefore VCA after duel is a the most valuable information.
It's a tough one to solve, because even if the battlemaster claims we can't know if they're town or not.

Don’t you think the lack of any claims at this point almost exclusively make the actions from scum at this point?

Quite the opposite in fact

Expand.

I for one would be willing to claim my use of roles as town, except if I was vig when a shot is still available. But the fact the shot didn’t come yesterday has me concerned it’s a scum vig.

Even in a setup like this, where the role isn’t alignment indicative, I think claiming the use after the fact is pro-town. It gives information on the game for us to parse the situation.