M89: Baldurs Gate Mafia Game Thread

[sweetandcool]

I feel like there is 1 major factor that has town divided right now: half of us think the battlemaster was scum, and therefore D2 analysis is invalid (or outright flipped) after the duel.
The other half of us think the battlemaster was town, and therefore VCA after duel is a the most valuable information.
It's a tough one to solve, because even if the battlemaster claims we can't know if they're town or not.

You know, I just realized, even if Mafia had BM, they would still have to fake reactions to the whole thing. VCA might not be too helpful in that event, but certainly an ISO of the duel would.

[foodcoats]

##vote ghug

the opp

Bona why did you vote ghug D1? What does “the opp” mean?

[BunnyGo]

Why are we voting for Jamie? Because he was grumpy? Is he not always grumpy?

##VOTE Vecna

for voting for Jamie

This is MM’s D1 Vecna and I am now realizing MM and Jamie have been buddy buddy all game. Maybe I will pull those quotes together later but I’m pretty sure they have done a lot of back clapping and Jamie has taken the time to explain MM’s schedule/lurking, which is an interesting dynamic.

[BunnyGo]

Why is it weak?

It is a matter of record that I loudly pushed back against suggestions that Flavius was scum, on two occasions.

Facts are facts.

Based on squigs’ research above, I’d say “loudly” and “pushed back” require a different meaning then the ones I’m familiar with

I almost want to Townread him. I'm willing to believe his mental picture of himself was loudly Townreading Flav, and he just didn't realize he wasn't nearly as vocal as he thought he was.

Get what I'm saying?

Though the problem is that Mafia Jamiet could feel the same way, I suppose.

That does track.

I’m worried you accepted a tadpole though.

[foodcoats]

Ezio on D1 what made you join the HB wagon?

I've talked about my HB vote and you ostensibly read it when you did an ISO on me and put me as your top scumread.

It's not a long iso since I haven't posted much, but I'm not surprised you missed it again.

I saw HB use logic that required his competitor wagon to be scum for his logic to be sound, yet he wasn't voting for the other wagon and did not vote that wagon. I forget who it was.

Well on D1, you actually questioned Dip and Jamie’s take about HB’s reads.
You never said yourself on D1 that you agreed this was scummy.
You also voted HB before you questioned Dip and Jamie.

For example here is your interaction with Jamie. Again this came after your naked HB vote. It seems like you were questioning the logic or questioning Jamie, not affirming a basis on which you had scumread HB which you never actually did before making a vote

Which one?

And why haven't you answered his question?

Do you think HB leaving someone in both townreads and scumreads is scum indicative?

I’m going to spam this because Ezio left the chat after trying to get everyone to keep bantering pointlessly about the BM instead of answering me.

Ezio specifically claimed that he scumread HB for reasons that, actually, Dip and War and Jamie scumread HB, and which he only quoted AFTER voting HB - and in which quotes he didn’t seem to agree that the conclusion was HB was scum. It feels like Ezio was open to a different vote, for one reason or another.

(Obviously in my conclusion, because he is scum and the HB vote was inauthentic - which also explains why his memory of it is wrong. Perhaps he and Jamie are scum together, and the HB thing is something they discussed in daychat, but Ezio is forgetting he didn’t actually write it up in the game thread.)

[Bonatogether]

Displeased I don’t have something to read from Bona…

i was asleep

[foodcoats]

The fish is slowing down.

How bout a ##Vote flum to spice some stuff up? I like 3 D1 wagons.

I like the flum one as well ##vote flum, will flip to damo if there's a tie, but I don't like the brian wagon here

Lfischl not here anymore to question but here is how he votes Flum D1.
Honestly in my books for D1 not awful.

[Foxcastle]

Or, maybe I don't feel like dealing with you being a prick when I already think you're scum for objective reasons that you haven't addressed. (In fairness, I'm not sure how you would, but you haven't even tried.)

It's all WIFOM, so as you point out, so that's convenient for you if you're scum. Given the duel, there's plenty of incentives for scum to bus Balki. (And if the battle master was scum, which is what I think, there's a lot more of incentive for scum to be on him earlier rather than later.)

I was not reading Balki as scum because I was trying not to be trapped in my OMGUS about his scumreading me literally every game we've ever played together. I voted him to avoid a tie.

I said you were sucking up to Sweet to clarify what I meant in response to his question, and maybe that was a little crude, but you're the one who replied aggressively with "clinical to the point of cowardice" and then personal insults, and followed up by straight up dismissing me from being worth a reply on the merits of the game.

Woah Fox, if you believe BM was Mafia, then why the heck are you scum reading President Eden? That's completely contradictory.

OMGUS. But also, for the same reason I did not pursue Balki (or you), I'm aware of that, which is why I'm trying to tear myself away from yet another pointless battle and look at others. But yes, it's contradictory. Vote me for it, I guess.

[sweetandcool]

Based on squigs’ research above, I’d say “loudly” and “pushed back” require a different meaning then the ones I’m familiar with

I almost want to Townread him. I'm willing to believe his mental picture of himself was loudly Townreading Flav, and he just didn't realize he wasn't nearly as vocal as he thought he was.

Get what I'm saying?

Though the problem is that Mafia Jamiet could feel the same way, I suppose.

That does track.

I’m worried you accepted a tadpole though.

That's fair. I'm not entirely sure whether I would accept or not. The temptation of a Daychat is strong.

Well, I don't think I could possibly be a deep threat. Oddly hardly anyone scumreads me, but surely after a few more phases of my sloppy play people will turn on me.

[Squigs44]

Why is it weak?

It is a matter of record that I loudly pushed back against suggestions that Flavius was scum, on two occasions.

Facts are facts.

Based on squigs’ research above, I’d say “loudly” and “pushed back” require a different meaning then the ones I’m familiar with

I almost want to Townread him. I'm willing to believe his mental picture of himself was loudly Townreading Flav, and he just didn't realize he wasn't nearly as vocal as he thought he was.

Get what I'm saying?

Though the problem is that Mafia Jamiet could feel the same way, I suppose.

Oof... maybe you were tadpoled

[BunnyGo]

Ok. Thoughts on what has happened and current state of game.


Day 1 was a zoo. Hard to follow. Hard to keep up. Lots of stuff. And we ended TvTvTvT as top 4 wagons. We had other opportunities before. But that’s what it was.

So I think scum were probably fairly still after those lead wagons settled out. Let the town run around and look like they’re saving someone. But hard to tell that apart from not around.


Day 2 was another crazy day. Vig hit on town. The fact it was a wagon from day 1 and a wagon day 2 suggests vig is town trying to clear things up. I hope they eliminate Eden tomorrow.

The unknown BM is confusing for VCA, the play by D&W was interesting.


Lots of arguments, yelling, analysis about the arguments, it’s only just recently become less of a zoo.


The necromancer day 3 I’ll stand by that we should assume ghug was town for mech reasons unless told otherwise, but the necromancer should be in no rush to tell us if he was scum. I believe it was a town shot either way.

So that leaves AT LEAST 2 scum powers left (if my view is correct). I expect one of them is a vote manipulation power (immune to a day or double vote for a day).


As for reads:

I think sweet started town; I’m worried he accepts the tadpole.

I think squigs started town and was not even offered the tadpole because he wouldn’t accept.

I think worcej is town. His frustration progressions and posts are solid town!worc

I think food is town. I see effort, and developments.

I think Flum is town; his push on me is too haphazard for scum!flum

I didn’t think Vecna was town until tonight. His posts improved a lot. I’m still worried, but N3 was an improvement.

I think Dousing is WAY TOO focused on himself. If he’s town, he’s not helping, and if he’s scum….this tracks.

I think Colby is smarter than he’s pretending. But this game has been a zoo…so maybe he just really is confused. @Colby: explore the bot.

I think Just is capable of changing his game play style, but this seems townier to me.

I like Mad’s posts tonight.

I like Bona’s attitude and energy. Seems towny. But he’s fooled me before.

I like demon’s energy. But I’m wondering where he went.

I think aaro is scum. I believe his outside things are going to distract him, but his game so far seems like what I expect scum!aaro to do.

So…my POE is Jamie, aaro, eden, yo-yo, Dousin, Colby.

Humbly request vig shoots in there. Preferably Eden. Or Yoyo.

[Squigs44]

@Bunny you conveniently left your read of food off this list

[Squigs44]

Update I apparently can't read

[sweetandcool]

@Bunny you conveniently left your read of food off this list

You conveniently need to give it a reread (;

[Squigs44]

I'm gonna go take a nap and try to rectify my sleep schedule

[Ezio]

I've talked about my HB vote and you ostensibly read it when you did an ISO on me and put me as your top scumread.

It's not a long iso since I haven't posted much, but I'm not surprised you missed it again.

I saw HB use logic that required his competitor wagon to be scum for his logic to be sound, yet he wasn't voting for the other wagon and did not vote that wagon. I forget who it was.

Well on D1, you actually questioned Dip and Jamie’s take about HB’s reads.
You never said yourself on D1 that you agreed this was scummy.
You also voted HB before you questioned Dip and Jamie.

For example here is your interaction with Jamie. Again this came after your naked HB vote. It seems like you were questioning the logic or questioning Jamie, not affirming a basis on which you had scumread HB which you never actually did before making a vote

Do you think HB leaving someone in both townreads and scumreads is scum indicative?

I’m going to spam this because Ezio left the chat after trying to get everyone to keep bantering pointlessly about the BM instead of answering me.

Ezio specifically claimed that he scumread HB for reasons that, actually, Dip and War and Jamie scumread HB, and which he only quoted AFTER voting HB - and in which quotes he didn’t seem to agree that the conclusion was HB was scum. It feels like Ezio was open to a different vote, for one reason or another.

(Obviously in my conclusion, because he is scum and the HB vote was inauthentic - which also explains why his memory of it is wrong. Perhaps he and Jamie are scum together, and the HB thing is something they discussed in daychat, but Ezio is forgetting he didn’t actually write it up in the game thread.)

What are you talking about? I did not "explicitly state I scumread HB for the same reasons as Jamie and others". The only person who posted about this specific oddity was Flum who noticed it and called it out immediately.
I questioned Jamiet because if he was scum reading HB for putting someone in both townreads and scumreads I was going to have a fit, as that's just poor play, not scum play.
I was searching for inauthentic/shitty reasons to vote HB because I agree that's a good place to look for scum.

You're saying you read my iso. You saw me explain my justification for the vote later. I think it was D2.

[BunnyGo]

@Bunny you conveniently left your read of food off this list

No. I just didn’t elaborate much.

[BunnyGo]

I’m off to watch minor league baseball!

If I die, kill ghug again!

[Ezio]

Ok. Thoughts on what has happened and current state of game.


Day 1 was a zoo. Hard to follow. Hard to keep up. Lots of stuff. And we ended TvTvTvT as top 4 wagons. We had other opportunities before. But that’s what it was.

So I think scum were probably fairly still after those lead wagons settled out. Let the town run around and look like they’re saving someone. But hard to tell that apart from not around.


Day 2 was another crazy day. Vig hit on town. The fact it was a wagon from day 1 and a wagon day 2 suggests vig is town trying to clear things up. I hope they eliminate Eden tomorrow.

The unknown BM is confusing for VCA, the play by D&W was interesting.


Lots of arguments, yelling, analysis about the arguments, it’s only just recently become less of a zoo.


The necromancer day 3 I’ll stand by that we should assume ghug was town for mech reasons unless told otherwise, but the necromancer should be in no rush to tell us if he was scum. I believe it was a town shot either way.

So that leaves AT LEAST 2 scum powers left (if my view is correct). I expect one of them is a vote manipulation power (immune to a day or double vote for a day).


As for reads:

I think sweet started town; I’m worried he accepts the tadpole.

I think squigs started town and was not even offered the tadpole because he wouldn’t accept.

I think worcej is town. His frustration progressions and posts are solid town!worc

I think food is town. I see effort, and developments.

I think Flum is town; his push on me is too haphazard for scum!flum

I didn’t think Vecna was town until tonight. His posts improved a lot. I’m still worried, but N3 was an improvement.

I think Dousing is WAY TOO focused on himself. If he’s town, he’s not helping, and if he’s scum….this tracks.

I think Colby is smarter than he’s pretending. But this game has been a zoo…so maybe he just really is confused. @Colby: explore the bot.

I think Just is capable of changing his game play style, but this seems townier to me.

I like Mad’s posts tonight.

I like Bona’s attitude and energy. Seems towny. But he’s fooled me before.

I like demon’s energy. But I’m wondering where he went.

I think aaro is scum. I believe his outside things are going to distract him, but his game so far seems like what I expect scum!aaro to do.

So…my POE is Jamie, aaro, eden, yo-yo, Dousin, Colby.

Humbly request vig shoots in there. Preferably Eden. Or Yoyo.

I think *I* got left off of this.

[foodcoats]

I actually have no real qualms with how Ezio originally gets on Balki (a “vote Balki I guess?” much as I voted Dip I guess?) but what’s interesting is he states this:

##vote NoKill.

We're not killing the claimed town PR, and we shouldn't kill someone I townread.

Ezio NEVER stated he townread KOTP or Balki until this moment and tries to make a No Kill happen. Balki is actually entirely absent from Ezio’s iso until the duel, except for him agreeing on something related to the vig and ghug. It’s interesting that Ezio would claim he townreads Balki and try to make a No Kill here. I never ever think of No Killing but I’m bad at this game so, grain of salt.