M89: Baldurs Gate Mafia Game Thread

[sweetandcool]

my current worldview is something along the lines of: kakkarot was right about kotp, flum and jamiet being scum.

Scum killed him and tried to remove the focus off of those reads by forcing the flip on D&W to discredit his remaining reads. Whether they also did ghug remains to be seen, but it fits in the objective of obfuscation.

I think the BM was scum, to set up an overwhelming gamestate to induce the parasite to be accepted.

I also have a growing suspicion that they mightve recruited S&C, and that he was actively trying to defend flum at last eod.

Im not certain of this by any stretch of the imagination, but if I was the scumteam id recruit either him or dousing. Two widely townread players where noone will truely bat an eye if they dont die for a while. The ghug kill also fits in that narrative to further obfuscate whether a tadpole was accepted or not.

Interesting, I really have been wanting to look at Kak.

I also agree about the tadpole. I think those would be two great tadpole choices. Not as townread as Squigs, who presumably should be an NK at some point, but pretty townread currently.

[foodcoats]

##vote hamilton

Ezio on D1 what made you join the HB wagon?

[foodcoats]

Where's ghug and Vecna telling us these wagons are stupid and leading us to the correct vote?

im not sure whether the damo / HB wagon are stupid.

They might be. But I do feel theres enough reason to be voting there.

Flum / D&W / Flavius would all be atrocious wagons imo.

I feel like you. None of the juicy stuff I want to actually kill it on the table.

I STRONGLY feel bona is not getting anywhere near enough pressure. slot has been completely vapid.

I wouldnt mind S&C being an option

I always applaud a Chaqa wagon, and he's been awfully quiet (probably so he can N1 me again as he always does before I get a read on him )

Vecna on day one you seemed to spend more time analyzing damo, but you seemed okay with either wagon. Why did you land on HB?

[Foxcastle]

Balki was really good at putting me on tilt. I could easily imagine that if PE is scum, he just decided to pick up that thread and run with it (having gotten the summary in the scum chat). With Balki gone, the pressure on me was easing, but why let all the groundwork Balki did go to waste, right? So buddy Sweet ("I trust you 100%"), since he's pretty clearly down to vote for me, and take the opportunity to be offended at having his interaction with Sweet characterized as "sucking up" so he can then just be condescending and snide about thing like how I phrased posts.

Or, maybe I don't feel like dealing with you being a prick when I already think you're scum for objective reasons that you haven't addressed. (In fairness, I'm not sure how you would, but you haven't even tried.)

It's all WIFOM, so as you point out, so that's convenient for you if you're scum. Given the duel, there's plenty of incentives for scum to bus Balki. (And if the battle master was scum, which is what I think, there's a lot more of incentive for scum to be on him earlier rather than later.)

I was not reading Balki as scum because I was trying not to be trapped in my OMGUS about his scumreading me literally every game we've ever played together. I voted him to avoid a tie.

I said you were sucking up to Sweet to clarify what I meant in response to his question, and maybe that was a little crude, but you're the one who replied aggressively with "clinical to the point of cowardice" and then personal insults, and followed up by straight up dismissing me from being worth a reply on the merits of the game.

[Foxcastle]

I would add Worcej to my list of scumreads. His game is a little too tidily town for me to think it's natural.

[foodcoats]

So D1 all top 4 wagons were town, King of the Balkis self-voted, I assume there is scum somewhere on a big wagon.

Neither Ezio nor Vecna had particularly natural moves onto HB so interested to get their perspective on their D1 votes.

[Ezio]

##vote hamilton

Ezio on D1 what made you join the HB wagon?

I've talked about my HB vote and you ostensibly read it when you did an ISO on me and put me as your top scumread.

It's not a long iso since I haven't posted much, but I'm not surprised you missed it again.

I saw HB use logic that required his competitor wagon to be scum for his logic to be sound, yet he wasn't voting for the other wagon and did not vote that wagon. I forget who it was.

[sweetandcool]

Balki was really good at putting me on tilt. I could easily imagine that if PE is scum, he just decided to pick up that thread and run with it (having gotten the summary in the scum chat). With Balki gone, the pressure on me was easing, but why let all the groundwork Balki did go to waste, right? So buddy Sweet ("I trust you 100%"), since he's pretty clearly down to vote for me, and take the opportunity to be offended at having his interaction with Sweet characterized as "sucking up" so he can then just be condescending and snide about thing like how I phrased posts.

Or, maybe I don't feel like dealing with you being a prick when I already think you're scum for objective reasons that you haven't addressed. (In fairness, I'm not sure how you would, but you haven't even tried.)

It's all WIFOM, so as you point out, so that's convenient for you if you're scum. Given the duel, there's plenty of incentives for scum to bus Balki. (And if the battle master was scum, which is what I think, there's a lot more of incentive for scum to be on him earlier rather than later.)

I was not reading Balki as scum because I was trying not to be trapped in my OMGUS about his scumreading me literally every game we've ever played together. I voted him to avoid a tie.

I said you were sucking up to Sweet to clarify what I meant in response to his question, and maybe that was a little crude, but you're the one who replied aggressively with "clinical to the point of cowardice" and then personal insults, and followed up by straight up dismissing me from being worth a reply on the merits of the game.

Woah Fox, if you believe BM was Mafia, then why the heck are you scum reading President Eden? That's completely contradictory.

[BunnyGo]

In terms of ghug. (Much of this is in my previous posts)

I do think he was scum that was hipfired upon. He was second wagon (so no reason for maf to shoot), and it means that at leat some townies didn't like.

Much of what has been said to "confirm ghug is town" is that the shooter won't claim. Why would we want them to claim.

SHOOTER STAY HIDDEN. Claim on the block if you must.

They claim, they get NK'd. obviously.

We aren't calling for the archer to claim?
(I do understand that the archer A) has a second shot, and B) doesn't have info to give, but I think it's a similar enough case.


Anyway, I think ghug was scum and the shooter did good work.

I agree with every word of this.

[sweetandcool]

Hmmm, if Mafia recruited N2, which is weird, maybe it was because they didn't want to give us info with a NK. Maybe they felt we were so off base that we'd just inevitably miss D3?

[foodcoats]

I can’t find anyone else in those top 3 (excluding Dip Wagon because Kak and HB) who didn’t make a progression to get to their vote. Not to say scum can’t fake progression but nonetheless. Ezio and Vecna’s HB votes are sus and I would think on average there would be a scum on HB.

[Ezio]

I feel like there is 1 major factor that has town divided right now: half of us think the battlemaster was scum, and therefore D2 analysis is invalid (or outright flipped) after the duel.
The other half of us think the battlemaster was town, and therefore VCA after duel is a the most valuable information.
It's a tough one to solve, because even if the battlemaster claims we can't know if they're town or not.

[BunnyGo]

Col7by Bonatogether BunnyGo DemonRHK worcej President Eden foodcoats

This wagon and my scumreads match up almost too nicely. I bet if Jamie were online he also would have been on that wagon to complete my scum collection

No I would not have been, because I townread Flavius. I had said so.

It was a stupid wagon. He was very towny. He put a huge amount of effort into asking questions, looking into people's motives, reviewing things that were happening. I don't think anyone this game has actually put more effort into solving, than Flavius was doing.

Mafia will be very pleased with themselves for removing his voice from the game.

Man idk. I don’t think he should have been a wagon. But I feel like he helped derail a solid Foxcastle wagon by freaking out over the spreadsheet thing. There’s more to being useful town than posting a lot and caring.

I think all the opinions on fox and Flum as good wagons “because flipping them will clear things up” is bs and either thoughtless town or scum motivated.

[BunnyGo]

##GM NOTE
FWIW... this 24 hour thing is playing games with my internal MafClock. I THINK I like it, actually... but I just spent 5 minutes preparing a Vote Count... and only one person had voted! Which was weird. Until I remembered it is Night.

Sigh.

##vote dargo for the fake confused GM slip

[foodcoats]

##vote hamilton

Ezio on D1 what made you join the HB wagon?

I've talked about my HB vote and you ostensibly read it when you did an ISO on me and put me as your top scumread.

It's not a long iso since I haven't posted much, but I'm not surprised you missed it again.

I saw HB use logic that required his competitor wagon to be scum for his logic to be sound, yet he wasn't voting for the other wagon and did not vote that wagon. I forget who it was.

Well on D1, you actually questioned Dip and Jamie’s take about HB’s reads.
You never said yourself on D1 that you agreed this was scummy.
You also voted HB before you questioned Dip and Jamie.

For example here is your interaction with Jamie. Again this came after your naked HB vote. It seems like you were questioning the logic or questioning Jamie, not affirming a basis on which you had scumread HB which you never actually did before making a vote

Forgot to delete it?

Which one?

And why haven't you answered his question?

Do you think HB leaving someone in both townreads and scumreads is scum indicative?

[BunnyGo]

You're lying, or not reading.

On D1 I strongly pushed back on D&W scumreading Flavius, and yesterday I strongly rebutted MadMonarch's absurd claim that Flavius was "known Mafioso".

Did you miss those posts, or are you just trying to shade me?

Your “counter” here is weak when you have to reference a D1 position from over ~200 pages ago and rebutting Monarch’s random opinion last phase…

Why is it weak?

It is a matter of record that I loudly pushed back against suggestions that Flavius was scum, on two occasions.

Facts are facts.

Based on squigs’ research above, I’d say “loudly” and “pushed back” require a different meaning then the ones I’m familiar with

[BunnyGo]

Man idk. I don’t think he should have been a wagon. But I feel like he helped derail a solid Foxcastle wagon by freaking out over the spreadsheet thing. There’s more to being useful town than posting a lot and caring.

If you didn't think he should have been a wagon, why did you vote for him?

I checked back late in the phase and saw Fox wagon evaporate and Flavius and foodcoats become the choices. I held out for a bit vainly hoping that the Fox wagon would return, but it didn't, so I voted to avoid tie. (Hence my blatant flip between the two wagons.)

Tell me how/why you had such a strong opinion on fox and food. I’ve not been following your development there.

[foodcoats]

Why are we voting for Jamie? Because he was grumpy? Is he not always grumpy?

##VOTE Vecna

for voting for Jamie

This is MM’s D1 Vecna and I am now realizing MM and Jamie have been buddy buddy all game. Maybe I will pull those quotes together later but I’m pretty sure they have done a lot of back clapping and Jamie has taken the time to explain MM’s schedule/lurking, which is an interesting dynamic.

[BunnyGo]

My view on the game is it’s been very hard to decipher what has happened because of the battle master and other power roles used that haven’t given us as much info as normal kills would have. I think the flav vote is the best actual vote we can gather the most information from. Everyone seems to be collapsing in each other and nitpicking because of the lack of information we have gained. I think the key things to look at are balki supporters/dip haters D2 before battle master and the chaos during the flav vote

Ok. What did you learn from the Flav vote?

[sweetandcool]

Your “counter” here is weak when you have to reference a D1 position from over ~200 pages ago and rebutting Monarch’s random opinion last phase…

Why is it weak?

It is a matter of record that I loudly pushed back against suggestions that Flavius was scum, on two occasions.

Facts are facts.

Based on squigs’ research above, I’d say “loudly” and “pushed back” require a different meaning then the ones I’m familiar with

I almost want to Townread him. I'm willing to believe his mental picture of himself was loudly Townreading Flav, and he just didn't realize he wasn't nearly as vocal as he thought he was.

Get what I'm saying?

Though the problem is that Mafia Jamiet could feel the same way, I suppose.