M89: Baldurs Gate Mafia Game Thread

[ghug]

##call gm:

in case of the tadpole, has a choice been made already, or is the choice made during the following day?

@ghug you have a better memory about this stuff: does scum!Vecna pretend to not know to be seen asking?

Always possible but I can't remember him ever making a show of it.

[Bonatogether]

ok that was a little toxic, apologies

[ghug]

You scumread Bunny because he didn’t see a webpage the same way you did?

Go to this post.
https://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=408356#p408356

Bunny confirmed he saw the Balki death in this location. He also said he didn't know damo or dip died. It is basically impossible to see this area and not see the damo/dip deaths listed right next to Balki's death below.


Which makes it pretty clear Bunny is trying to pretend to be more clueless than he actually is.

Maybe he is using a 300 baud dial-up modem and that part of the page hadn't loaded yet.

He does live in Maine

[ghug]

Jesus ducking Christ.

I was driving children around.

I was on my phone at a gymnastics studio before heading to get other child.

I looked at vote totals I looked at balkis flip. Why would I think to look at others? My eyes wouldn’t even go there.


But fine. You think I’m lying about that.

Why would scum!Bunny lie about that? Why commit to the bit with sweet that I had no idea damo was dead? And that I didn’t understand 3 powers had been used?

You just have to lower your eyes by 1 cm lol. It's also a natural inclination as scum to try to feign ignorance.

I do believe you were looking after your children though so that's good.

Hey man. I dunno if you are really thinking how perception and attention works. When you’re looking for a thing and not another, you won’t see it.

Bark up a different tree.

You asked a very similar question about Vecna feigning ignorancea page ago. Do you really think this is an unreasonable line of questioning for someone to follow?

[ghug]

Please make you very next post (unless you’ve already done and I’m not caught up) a clear and affirmative claim of not being targeted last night (or a clear claim you were targeted)

Is there a case where someone wouldn't know they were registered, or a case where a kill would be redirected, or a case where someone would be saved by town from a town killing and then mafia would get away with looking like they didn't tadpole?

[ghug]

##VOTE foosier coats, MD

Why?

He's been lame.

[ghug]

Flum sat on Ham all day D1 and pushed Balki into a 9-9 tie with 9 minutes to go on D2.

Rather less D1 shitposting than I would have thought! Says, "I was one of the leaders of the Hamilton wagon and was wrong rip," which is odd given that he never actually pushed Ham and 5 minutes before D1 EOD he said, "I'm probably willing to flashwagon lfischl but other than that I'm reasonably confident I'll be staying on Hamilton over Flavius, Damo, or Dip".

And then there's a bunch more that seems pretty innocuous.

##VOTE FLUM

I'm going to go see how D1 votes look assuming Flum is scum.

• Sweet briefly votes flum at the very beginning but moves off quickly.
• Dousing votes flum, Flav votes flum. Dousing leaves Flum.
• Sweet joins Flav, but Flav moves off shortly thereafter.
• Flav returns, rejoining Sweet.
• Sweet moves off as we head into EOD, but then comes back quickly.
• Demon pushes Flum into 3rd position with 3 votes.
• lfischl is the fourth vote on Flum, which pushes him back into 3rd position. [00:41]
• Ham makes a fifth vote on Flum, and he's tied for the lead with Damo. [00:38]
• Foodcoats abandons Damo, leaving Flum in the lead with 5 votes.
• Bunny puts Ham in a tie for first with 5 votes each.
• Worcej puts Ham in the lead with 6 votes.
• Ham leaves the Flum wagon, leaving him in 3rd place with four votes.
• Demon leaves the Flum wagon, followed by Flav, and Sweet.

If Flum is scum, this points to foodcoats, Demon, and maybe lfischl being towny, and Bunny and Worcej potentially being scum, based only on VCA. (I don't think Bunny is scum, though.)

This does not dissuade me from my Flum vote.

I dislike that this is how Fox is using his time.

[Squigs44]

i suppose if you are a strict literalist, that could be the reading you get from what i said, but like i said before - why would town do this? town being stupid of course is possible, but is not an excuse. to spell it out for you, the question 'why would scum do this?' is easily answered with: it kicks up dust around someone people have questions about in a way that prolongs their survival, and if fox is scum (as you repeatedly proposed d2), then that directly is helping a scumbuddy.

So is your scumread of Flav dependant on Fox being scum, given that the scum reasons you listed were for prolonging or protecting Fox?

no. fox is a player with a large question mark, which town would benefit from having resolved, either through case for town or scum, or through flipping. flav is directly pushing against any attempt to resolve fox's alignment.

can i make it clearer? big letters, perhaps?

Idk I think you are over estimating the impact Flav has. I just don't see scum Flav decide to sink that much time into trying to convince the 2 or 3 people scum reading Fox to hold off on voting based on some non existent spreadsheet, in the hopes that they will listen to him and not resolve Fox's alignment.

Do you think Fox specifically gives us more info than other flips, and was targeted by Flav? Or Flav is just trying to be as disruptive as possible in any way he can find?

[Bonatogether]

So is your scumread of Flav dependant on Fox being scum, given that the scum reasons you listed were for prolonging or protecting Fox?

no. fox is a player with a large question mark, which town would benefit from having resolved, either through case for town or scum, or through flipping. flav is directly pushing against any attempt to resolve fox's alignment.

can i make it clearer? big letters, perhaps?

Idk I think you are over estimating the impact Flav has. I just don't see scum Flav decide to sink that much time into trying to convince the 2 or 3 people scum reading Fox to hold off on voting based on some non existent spreadsheet, in the hopes that they will listen to him and not resolve Fox's alignment.

Do you think Fox specifically gives us more info than other flips, and was targeted by Flav? Or Flav is just trying to be as disruptive as possible in any way he can find?

highlighted relevant section of text

[sweetandcool]

ok that was a little toxic, apologies

I was just thinking what happened to fun carefree Bona <3

[Bonatogether]

why squiggs is scum: a pre-fitted case created from a deep drive of omgus

full disclosure: idt squiggs and i have ever townread each other. i have a recollection of a toxic argument between us

squigg's MO seems to be asking lots of leading questions and then making very little out of it

i find very little with to engage in his posts d1 through d2, so i'm just going to simplify and focus in on balki in this

##vote Foxcastle

Probably the most interesting vote today

d2 - first mention of balki. naked comment, unexplained

##vote Foxcastle

My thinking:

I find Foxcastle to be on the edges of the game, not pushing with much verve, and not going after the sorts of targets who will respond with volume. Here are his Day 1 votes with their reasons:

##VOTE DemonRHK. Lurking is shirking.

It's time to start consolidating wagons.

##vote lfischl

I don’t think it’s damo.

##vote ham

These are all the sorts of votes that fit into the blindspots of the game. I don't see much confusion, suspicion, or effort. And lots of commenting around the game and not about alignments.

I see a low-impact, houseplant sort of a game so far, and I think that is scum-indicative for Foxcastle.

Caveats: I have read less than half of the game (though I did do a Foxy ISO, and I have not played with Foxcastle in maybe years.

I don't mind this, I just don't relish the idea of driving a mis kill on a voice of reason and good solver. I either need more than this gut feeling I have, or get a bit further in when he normally solves to actually see him at work

apparently agrees with balki somewhat? waffles on actual vote, but doesn't limit any later options.

While Balki is just one vote on me, I'm taking my time to lay this out because Balki has a long history of railroading me. He scumreads me almost every time, he has never actually townread me, and he has been wrong every fucking time except one. So it's disappointing to see that he has learned nothing and is back for yet another round of "scumread Fox no matter what."

To quote yourself:

"Remember that time..." is very weak

*quotes snipped for readability

In honesty I don't really see much in Balkis case but I also haven't felt much townie from you, mostly just pro town play at best

somewhat strange editing of an extremely short second quoted post, but again refuses to commit to a position

In case my point about Balki v Fox wasn't clear:

I don't care much that Balki has a history of tunneling Fox. I care more about if Balkis case in this game is credible. People are reacting to Fox's defense but not saying much about Balkis original case which worries me

i +1ed this post but really, this doesn't make sense in context - if you've said the case is weak, then shouldn't this make sense?

Balki absolutely is the type of scum player that would bus scum Fox with a weak case there.

this makes fox and squiggs not scum together i suppose

this is all so early in day that i believe the battlemaster was not called yet.

squiggs then ignores balki for a long time

I’m going to ##vote ghug.

No, I’m not.

##unvote

@ghug, please solve the game.

##vote Sweet?

And what's the point of voting ghug, unvoting here, and question mark voting sweet?

Seems like you want to make sure we see that you are confused... why?

ok this isn't terrible for ideas but the posting style irritates me

there's some posts interacting with balki discussing that, but instead he votes me, who he has not mentioned for hours at least. this looks bad in retrospect.

our good friend squiggs hems and haws for a while, moving around to different votes like a lost and confused soul, but finally votes balki when he decides to ask for votes

Everyone keeps saying they will vote for me and then they don't vote for me.

##vote Balki

Feel better?

Balki you're top 3 poster but all I remember you doing is launching a bad case on Fox, then acting confused, then shuffling your vote from bad target to bad target and I haven't been convinced by really any of your cases. I feel like you're usually sharper than this

i feel a core question for d2 is asking why balki asks for votes here. he doesn't know that he's about to be dueled. i think it shows that he doesn't know that there's going to be two deaths.

squiggs is the first vote on balki, and balki accrues 3 votes before the duel is declared (all from fisch, incidentally). i think it's a reasonable assumption that dip's wagon was not going to collapse totally, if the duel hadn't happened, so i don't think scum interpreted balki as going to be a serious wagon. there were other 3 vote wagons - fisch (slightly dead, and collapsing), and ghug (also low-momentum, but potentially a growing wagon, especially with any of 6 scum moving around). therefore, i don't think squiggs gets any credit for the early balki vote.

then the duel is declared and vca is bust.
people voting for dip: food, bunny, bona,

i feel that the general pattern of engaging with balki's case on fox and how that went down, and refusing to vote fox, but instead some random other people (including me, who's been a persistent unexplained scumread), until balki inexplicably asked for votes late in the day. i feel that that move had to have been coordinated, in which case you'd expect mafia to move onto him faster, but not necessarily to have been committed to killing him, which is the pattern that squiggs fits into - first vote, followed up by a soft read that could easily allow him to move.

A DUEL HAS BEEN INITIATED

Diplomacy and Warfare vs Balki Bartokomous

Oh snap. I wanted a Balki flashwagon, not a Balki duel

revealing.

thanks all

[Squigs44]

no. fox is a player with a large question mark, which town would benefit from having resolved, either through case for town or scum, or through flipping. flav is directly pushing against any attempt to resolve fox's alignment.

can i make it clearer? big letters, perhaps?

Idk I think you are over estimating the impact Flav has. I just don't see scum Flav decide to sink that much time into trying to convince the 2 or 3 people scum reading Fox to hold off on voting based on some non existent spreadsheet, in the hopes that they will listen to him and not resolve Fox's alignment.

Do you think Fox specifically gives us more info than other flips, and was targeted by Flav? Or Flav is just trying to be as disruptive as possible in any way he can find?

highlighted relevant section of text

I take that as yes to being targeted then?
Why would it give us more info? He wasn't a major wagon and his only real conflict was with Balki. Not sure what info a Fox flip gives there?

[Bonatogether]

possibly going to miss eod? not like i've made the others lmao

[ghug]

Why bona scum?

Someone I think you pointed out with the balki vote their awkward conversations and saying they would veto any attempt at a tie. I mentioned trying to tie it because I felt they were both town which I read wrong. The adamant about vetoing a tie with no further explanation seemed suspicious.

Hmm, refusing to allow a tie isn’t really scum indicative. Town needs daykills for the sake of information, even when we’re wrong.

But thinking that refusing to allow a tie is scum indicative is town indicative.

[Bonatogether]

Idk I think you are over estimating the impact Flav has. I just don't see scum Flav decide to sink that much time into trying to convince the 2 or 3 people scum reading Fox to hold off on voting based on some non existent spreadsheet, in the hopes that they will listen to him and not resolve Fox's alignment.

Do you think Fox specifically gives us more info than other flips, and was targeted by Flav? Or Flav is just trying to be as disruptive as possible in any way he can find?

highlighted relevant section of text

I take that as yes to being targeted then?
Why would it give us more info? He wasn't a major wagon and his only real conflict was with Balki. Not sure what info a Fox flip gives there?

fox had this whole thing with balki in d2. famously, both were posting weak cases at each other, and they spent a long time going at it. people raised the question of if it was tvs or svs (you mentioned twice the idea that it would fit as scum!balki's idea - and look how he flipped), and it was, to my mind at least, the defining event of the immediate pre-eod2 block of time

[sweetandcool]

highlighted relevant section of text

I take that as yes to being targeted then?
Why would it give us more info? He wasn't a major wagon and his only real conflict was with Balki. Not sure what info a Fox flip gives there?

fox had this whole thing with balki in d2. famously, both were posting weak cases at each other, and they spent a long time going at it. people raised the question of if it was tvs or svs (you mentioned twice the idea that it would fit as scum!balki's idea - and look how he flipped), and it was, to my mind at least, the defining event of the immediate pre-eod2 block of time

Thanks for the case Bona.

[Fluminator]

Ok Ghug is scum. He's been on the edge all game and this clinches it.

Sweet and Fix probably town with massive egos who I hope get discredited soon.

Aaron is maybe scum because he said I was townish right behind voting me next post.

I have to help someone move tomorrow morning but I should be around before deadline still.

[Bonatogether]

##vote squiggs

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

I saw werewolf with a Chinese menu in his hand
Walking through the streets of SoHo in the rain
He was looking for the place called Lee Ho Fooks
For to get a big dish of beef chow mein
Ah-hoo, werewolves of London
Ah-hoo
Ah-hoo, werewolves of London
Ah-hoo
You hear him howling around your kitchen door
You better not let him in
Little old lady got mutilated late last night
Werewolves of London again
Ah-hoo, werewolves of London
Ah-hoo
Ah-hoo, werewolves of London
Ah-hoo, huh
He's the hairy handed gent who ran amok in Kent
Lately he's been overheard in Mayfair
You better stay away from him, he'll rip your lungs out Jim
Huh, I'd like to meet his tailor
Ah-hoo, werewolves of London
Ah-hoo
Ah-hoo, werewolves of London
Ah-hoo
Well, I saw Lon Chaney walking with the Queen
Doin' the werewolves of London
I saw Lon Chaney Jr. walking with the Queen, uh
Doin' the werewolves of London
I saw a werewolf drinkin' a piña colada at Trader Vic's
His hair was perfect
Ah-hoo, werewolves of London
Hey draw blood
Ah-hoo, werewolves of London

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

As a certified yap master I can say there are two reasons i do not yap excessively
At the end of Jamie’s 3P game I had 1000 posts. Since i was hella annoying i watned to stop posting as much
Plus i am playing other games in my free time, like other mafia games + survivorgs