M89: Baldurs Gate Mafia Game Thread

[ghug]

Incorrect. When I did a thing with my profile picture that first time, there was no rule.

I also do not care very much. There is already a mechanism for dealing with this if it really bothers you. If you think that my profile picture is Mafia-indicative, you may vote me.

You need to stop lying about this and playing the victim, Jamie. The rule was created, to address your actions, and clearly communicated, and then you broke it. Instead of blaming everyone else for continuing to question you, maybe consider why we're in the situation in the first place and quit toeing the line for a little while.

To everyone else who's concerned, I agree that Jamie probably is actually following the rule here and just trying to have a little fun, despite my own frustrations. I'd advise not thinking anything of it with the understanding that if he ruins another game he likely won't be playing again.

why even bring it up if you agree he's not conveying anything, I didnt even notice his pfp until this conversation

There's recent history that has people sensitive to this issue.

[FlaviusAetius]

I'm going to take just a moment to make it clear PRs should not reveal unless they have a very good reason:
Case 1: PRs are scum
There are currently 24 living players: 14 VT, 5 town PRs, 3 scum PRs, 2 goons. 8 are PRs, 16 are not.
3/8 PRs are scum, so a PR has a 3/8 chance to be scum.
2/16 non-PRs are scum, so a non-PR has a 1/8 chance to be scum.
5/24 players are scum, so someone who hasn't been specified as either PR or not PR has a 5/24, or roughly 1/5, chance to be scum.
Therefore, anyone who claims PR is more likely to be scum than someone who doesn't. Therefore, town PRs should not claim PR.
Case 2: We need our PRs
This setup is, unfortunately, very swingy. There are roles like Arcane Trickster, Bardic Inspiration, and Wild Magic that are very weak as town and very strong as scum, roles like Light Cleric/Enchantment (alignment cop) and Unarmored Defense Barbarian hat are good for town but weak as scum. This setup has a potential to get very out of hand if mafia have strong PRs. Don't reveal just to make a point.
Case 3: The Tadpole Problem
For those of you who didn't read the setup, the mafia can once per game instead of nightkilling during the night give a town player a tadpole. That player will then have to choose whether to accept and become mafia (keeping any PR abilities they might have) or deny the recruitment. Mafia must use this ability during one of the first 4 nights.
Mafia will probably want to recruit a PR who is at least mostly towncleared. Revealing PR might seem like a great oppurtunity to get recruited. However, having revealed you are a PR, town will know you are a PR and therefore a potential recruitment target. Daykilling you would be pointless because we couldn't be certain you had been recruited. As a result, you might simply be ignored for the rest of the game.
Let this be a cautionary tale. Do not reveal PR unless you have a VERY GOOD reason.

See sweet...THIS is a thought process.

Note to the Demon: more white space.

This is a very good point and @Dousing misses one thing; if you are a town PR you probably dont want to switch teams to the mafia, especially if you have a very beneficial town PR role. I still agree with the rest of the analysis though, but thats another added reason.

[ghug]

Unrelatedly I'm kind of starting to townread Jamie.

[Jamiet99uk]

You need to stop lying about this and playing the victim, Jamie. The rule was created, to address your actions, and clearly communicated, and then you broke it. Instead of blaming everyone else for continuing to question you, maybe consider why we're in the situation in the first place and quit toeing the line for a little while.

I don't remember it being that way.

(Truly, I do not).

To everyone else who's concerned, I agree that Jamie probably is actually following the rule here and just trying to have a little fun, despite my own frustrations. I'd advise not thinking anything of it with the understanding that if he ruins another game he likely won't be playing again.

I am not attempting to ruin any games. I am here to play Mafia and have fun. I am not impersonating anyone's PFP (Chaqa's own PFP is a picture of a dog, not even Chaqa's own face) and the majority of the image is still the Ultima Avatar picture I was using before. Your constant negativity towards me makes me sad.

[FlaviusAetius]

Foochcoats obv town even if he has some hot takes

##VOTE DAMO

This is weird

Very weird, Im viewing will in my light, and he acts nothing like me, not good!

[Jamiet99uk]

See sweet...THIS is a thought process.

Note to the Demon: more white space.

This is a very good point and @Dousing misses one thing; if you are a town PR you probably dont want to switch teams to the mafia, especially if you have a very beneficial town PR role. I still agree with the rest of the analysis though, but thats another added reason.

I'm not sure that can be relied upon, if your strong PR powers would also be powerful as scum, then I think some players would be just as likely to switch, as they would be if they were a VT.

[FlaviusAetius]

I think the vig is mafia aligned. From a meta perspective it makes sense since the max total players from setup was 23 and we started with 26.

noting the take by yoyo

The vigilante is totally a town
1. They listened to me and others who said damo's gotta go to clear up EoD1
2. His actions were 100% scummy
3. It made D2 useful and not useless as it would have been

[Jamiet99uk]

Unrelatedly I'm kind of starting to townread Jamie.

Oh dear, that's worrying.

Have you considered reconsidering?

I've grown used to you scumreading me all day every day, I'm not sure I can handle the idea of you townreading me.

[Jamiet99uk]

I think the vig is mafia aligned. From a meta perspective it makes sense since the max total players from setup was 23 and we started with 26.

noting the take by yoyo

The vigilante is totally a town
1. They listened to me and others who said damo's gotta go to clear up EoD1
2. His actions were 100% scummy
3. It made D2 useful and not useless as it would have been

Yes, and also:

4. Damo was highly likely to be daykilled by the town if left alive. Shooting him, as Mafia, would have been a bit of a waste when they could have just let town get on with wagoning Damo.

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm going to put a pizza in the oven and play World of Tanks for a while. I will be back in around 45 minutes.

[ghug]

You need to stop lying about this and playing the victim, Jamie. The rule was created, to address your actions, and clearly communicated, and then you broke it. Instead of blaming everyone else for continuing to question you, maybe consider why we're in the situation in the first place and quit toeing the line for a little while.

I don't remember it being that way.

(Truly, I do not).

To everyone else who's concerned, I agree that Jamie probably is actually following the rule here and just trying to have a little fun, despite my own frustrations. I'd advise not thinking anything of it with the understanding that if he ruins another game he likely won't be playing again.

I am not attempting to ruin any games. I am here to play Mafia and have fun. I am not impersonating anyone's PFP (Chaqa's own PFP is a picture of a dog, not even Chaqa's own face) and the majority of the image is still the Ultima Avatar picture I was using before. Your constant negativity towards me makes me sad.

I know it may not seem like it sometimes, Jamie, but I do like you and would like for you to play here in perpetuity and in peace without issue. I'm sorry for making you sad, and I hope you understand that this all comes from a place of my own sadness.

Hopefully we can just drop this here, but I'm happy to chat postgame to try to explain where I'm coming from.

[Jamiet99uk]

You need to stop lying about this and playing the victim, Jamie. The rule was created, to address your actions, and clearly communicated, and then you broke it. Instead of blaming everyone else for continuing to question you, maybe consider why we're in the situation in the first place and quit toeing the line for a little while.

I don't remember it being that way.

(Truly, I do not).

To everyone else who's concerned, I agree that Jamie probably is actually following the rule here and just trying to have a little fun, despite my own frustrations. I'd advise not thinking anything of it with the understanding that if he ruins another game he likely won't be playing again.

I am not attempting to ruin any games. I am here to play Mafia and have fun. I am not impersonating anyone's PFP (Chaqa's own PFP is a picture of a dog, not even Chaqa's own face) and the majority of the image is still the Ultima Avatar picture I was using before. Your constant negativity towards me makes me sad.

I know it may not seem like it sometimes, Jamie, but I do like you and would like for you to play here in perpetuity and in peace without issue. I'm sorry for making you sad, and I hope you understand that this all comes from a place of my own sadness.

Hopefully we can just drop this here, but I'm happy to chat postgame to try to explain where I'm coming from.

Alright Ghug let's park it there for now.

Pizza time.

[FlaviusAetius]

(3) Makes a long post about the various reasons mafia might have killed Kak without really saying anything at all.

*snip*

I also voted Ghug which is exactly what kak wanted to do (second to voting for D&W) + would've done a LOT to prove or disprove the credibility of kak's final argument

AGREED! But it seems like his argument is false now, though he still had good reasons for ghug soo and here's my response to you @ghug

https://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/posting.php?mode=quote&f=4&p=407226

Ok I'm back to thinking Flavius is town, and also back to thinking our relationship is going to be exhausting.

1. "I say stuff not designed to look good." not "I say stuff designed to not look good." there's an important difference.
2. I was not being buddy buddy with Vecna. I noted that we agreed and sweet ran with it, which is weird but I'm struggling to find scum motivation.
3. Your contradiction contradicts itself.
4. Has anyone agreed with Kak's meta read yet?
[/quote]

A1. our relationship does not have to be exhausting just because I think you are a mafia
A2. also why do you think Im a town you cant just say that, arent you one of the people who are against naked reads? quoting something does not make it not a naked read

B1. there is no difference Im going to need you to explain it to me
B2. and you didnt push back against it until I brought it up thats the problem! Remember how Squiggs said you always pocket him? Then I said well he would know that so he wouldnt do it this time around. Well it looks like we found who you have started pocketing, Vecna!
B3. If there's a contradiction in what I said that is exactly what Im saying you dont make sense if you are a townie according to your meta
B4. That's odd isn't it, that NO ONE has commented on it?

V the contradiction I put forward V
"You saying this scummy thing is exactly the contradiction I put forward that you did
"So either your a big solver and thats unlike your town meta
Or you are a solver, and you all of a sudden dont want to solve until day 4""

[FlaviusAetius]

noting the take by yoyo

The vigilante is totally a town
1. They listened to me and others who said damo's gotta go to clear up EoD1
2. His actions were 100% scummy
3. It made D2 useful and not useless as it would have been

Yes, and also:

4. Damo was highly likely to be daykilled by the town if left alive. Shooting him, as Mafia, would have been a bit of a waste when they could have just let town get on with wagoning Damo.

So why would yoyozo say this? A mafia veteran? Someone like me who can't solve for anything even realized this

[FlaviusAetius]

Well, first off, I think you took mysterious to mean quiet, which is not the case. I'm always loud. Kak is right that I work harder to be townread when I'm scum, but it's more that I say shit when I'm town that's not designed to look good.

Beyond that, though this isn't logically coherent.

For one, I never said I wanted to solve the game with Vecna. For two, you're acknowledging yourself that I said something that you and Kak both found scummy, which runs against the idea that I'm playing to be townread. For three, the entire basis of his own argument is that I'm openly insisting I'm town, which isn't something that regularly garners townreads.

It feels like you're just trying to jump on a shitty argument that you can wash your hands of by blaming Kak when you're wrong. I do not get the sense that you're applying serious consideration here.

What on earth are you talking about?
"I say stuff not designed to look good" when you are TOWN!?! That defeats the whole purpose of being a townie and is anti-town at best, you are just confusing everyone and inviting townies to suspect you and then be suspected for suspecting you over totally reasonable stuff. No what Kak meant was that you tried to stay NAI as a townie...not that you ACTIVELY tried to do stuff that was anti-town.

You and Vecna were being buddy buddy about solving the game, and I put a stop to that real quick by saying no you guys should try to solve the game independently, that would tell us a lot more than some random team up.

You saying this scummy thing is exactly the contradiction I put forward that you did
"So either your a big solver and thats unlike your town meta
Or you are a solver, and you all of a sudden dont want to solve until day 4"

Either way doesn't look good. His entire basis for town is threefolded, one you fit well into the team, and two you are going against your meta when you are a townie, and three(one that Im putting together) you are acting like a big solver, but then all of a sudden dont want to solve the game, that you havent answered for. I dont like that no one else here is paying attention to what Kak is saying but to the @Dip voters;

Ghug and Flum tell us a lot more about Kak's team than Dip does.

Ok I'm back to thinking Flavius is town, and also back to thinking our relationship is going to be exhausting.

1. "I say stuff not designed to look good." not "I say stuff designed to not look good." there's an important difference.
2. I was not being buddy buddy with Vecna. I noted that we agreed and sweet ran with it, which is weird but I'm struggling to find scum motivation.
3. Your contradiction contradicts itself.
4. Has anyone agreed with Kak's meta read yet?

BUMP!

[sweetandcool]

ghug, day 3 is almost here which means I might start suspecting you soon.

I'm very clearly town, and also you have to add up to four days to account for the tadpole.

You are not very clearly town, you've spoken a bunch and yet your alignment still confuses people. The ONLY reason I dont think you are #1 mafia right now is because Diplomacy is dead so I now need to rethink your reasonings

Actually, I'm pretty confident ghug is Town.

[FlaviusAetius]

*snip*

I also voted Ghug which is exactly what kak wanted to do (second to voting for D&W) + would've done a LOT to prove or disprove the credibility of kak's final argument

Kak's argument about me was mostly based on the idea that town D&W was my teammate, so maybe let's chill on continuing to use Kak as an excuse to vote for me.

Did you suspect me before I started voting for you?

No but thats the thing Kak's argument was all based on Flum being Dip's teammate and you being teir teammate too. But I wasnt sure about his argument the reasoning I have lasered my eyes on YOU is because Kak had OTHER reasons for you as well. I figured if you were mafia then surely the other two are mafia too.
Now im not sure about Flum, but what I do know is that the arguments Kak had about you were real.
Now other people are saying you have spoken so much but people are finding a hard time to read you, the reasons add up

[FlaviusAetius]

I'm very clearly town, and also you have to add up to four days to account for the tadpole.

You are not very clearly town, you've spoken a bunch and yet your alignment still confuses people. The ONLY reason I dont think you are #1 mafia right now is because Diplomacy is dead so I now need to rethink your reasonings

Actually, I'm pretty confident ghug is Town.

Im waiting for his responses to me

[Vecna]

I think the vig is mafia aligned. From a meta perspective it makes sense since the max total players from setup was 23 and we started with 26.

Why would scum vig shoot damo?

so they can claim later on to get that sweet towncred.

especially if its a slot were suspicious off, thats a fine way of still killing townies with the ability without it being a death sentence in a claiming situation.

not judging whether its better/more logical to choose any which way, but just claiming scum would hardly ever do it is not a great idea

[Vecna]

So there was something that happened D1 that prickled my nethers and not in a good way.

While I was pushing various wagons to try and get any kind of movement going, I landed on flum. At that time, Flav was on flum, and I felt like Flav immediately started to panic and try to explain a vote no one asked for explanation on.

Real "WHY ARE YOU VOTING HERE THIS IS THE ONLY REASON I AM HERE" vibes. Like getting caught on your scumbuddy vibes. Which now makes sense if it was a scum being pushed up to a TvT

this feels like a moderately towny post. not the type of thing id normally expect scum to come up with.

(i dont really agree with the read but its about the logic used)