M89: Baldurs Gate Mafia Game Thread

[Jamiet99uk]

##Vote Jamiet

This actually might be right.

no shit sherlock

Shit, Baldrick.

[Jamiet99uk]

Update on mech/setup:
There are, surprisingly, only two vig PRs. One is a janitor, the other is a 2-shot. As damo was not janitored, we can assume that the vig still has a shot left. Take that how you will.

Why are you suddenly being obsessed with the mechanics?

I happen to be one of very few players who actually read the setup.

So what?

[FlaviusAetius]

Balki called FoxCastle low impact, and attributed that to scumminess. Do people think Fox isn't low impact, or do they think he isn't scummy for that? Or do you agree with Balki?

His votes, in particular.

(I literally have read half the game, plus a Fox ISO )

I don’t think Balki is bullying Fox persay but it reads to me that he wants to get rid of Fox because he’s had GREAT reads on people. It’s one of his quirks. Balki is great at convincing people (I’m not sure if this is confidential information but he is a lawyer)

The way I’ve read Fox this game is that he’s good at seeing the big picture, which spells trouble for someone trying to deceptively drive bandwagons. Of course, that entire argument could be contrived and they’re both mafia, and if they’re both mafia, Balki could be saccing Fox for town points. Those are the vibes I getting so far.

X to doubt, Foxcastle made it pretty clear Balki will suspect Foxcastle no matter what for doing analysis without actual analysis, whether it was true or not(I dont think its true this game I felt Foxcastle has been helpful), soo if Fox ends up being mafia then Balki is just being Balki targetting Fox, if Fox turns up townie, then Balki is just being Balki targetting Fox, it means nothing for him and wont give him any points

[DiplomacyandWarfare]

Why are you suddenly being obsessed with the mechanics?

I happen to be one of very few players who actually read the setup.

So what?

So I thought I might as well go back through the list of roles and find all the vigs. It's not even mech; It's just reading the setup. Also, why do you care so much?

[Balki Bartokomous]

@Vecna, engage with me plz.

I will, but im already playing too much atm.

Also, you replaced into the kotp slot which was playing a carbon copy of their scumgame from last game, and replaced out. Youre gonna have to deal with a hefty dose of suspicion.

KOTP was Town. I saw his Role PM.

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm going to take just a moment to make it clear PRs should not reveal unless they have a very good reason:
Case 1: PRs are naughty
There are currently 24 living players: 14 VT, 5 nice PRs, 3 naughty PRs, 2 goons. 8 are PRs, 16 are not.
3/8 PRs are naughty, so a PR has a 3/8 chance to be naughty.
2/16 non-PRs are naughty, so a non-PR has a 1/8 chance to be naughty.
5/24 players are naughty, so someone who hasn't been specified as either PR or not PR has a 5/24, or roughly 1/5, chance to be naughty.
Therefore, anyone who claims PR is more likely to be naughty than someone who doesn't. Therefore, nice PRs should not claim PR.
Case 2: We need our PRs
This setup is, unfortunately, very swingy. There are roles like Arcane Trickster, Bardic Inspiration, and Wild Magic that are very weak as nice and very strong as naughty, roles like Light Cleric/Enchantment (alignment cop) and Unarmored Defense Barbarian hat are good for nice but weak as naughty. This setup has a potential to get very out of hand if mafia have strong PRs. Don't reveal just to make a point.
Case 3: The Tadpole Problem
For those of you who didn't read the setup, the mafia can once per game instead of nightkilling during the night give a nice player a tadpole. That player will then have to choose whether to accept and become mafia (keeping any PR abilities they might have) or deny the recruitment. Mafia must use this ability during one of the first 4 nights.
Mafia will probably want to recruit a PR who is at least mostly nicecleared. Revealing PR might seem like a great oppurtunity to get recruited. However, having revealed you are a PR, nice will know you are a PR and therefore a potential recruitment target. Daykilling you would be pointless because we couldn't be certain you had been recruited. As a result, you might simply be ignored for the rest of the game.
Let this be a cautionary tale. Do not reveal PR unless you have a VERY GOOD reason.

What made you decide to post this?

Did you suddenly become afraid we were all going to start mass-claiming?

If you're asking if it was related to damo dying, no. I wrote that before finding out damo died.
I was a bit concerned about PR reveals considering the swingy setup. A bucket would be terrible for towne.

"Bucket"?

What is meaning "bucket" in this context?

[Jamiet99uk]

I happen to be one of very few players who actually read the setup.

So what?

So I thought I might as well go back through the list of roles and find all the vigs. It's not even mech; It's just reading the setup. Also, why do you care so much?

Because talking at length about game mechanics is something I sometimes do as scum, to fill up the thread with fluff without actually contributing to finding scum. So I'm wondering if you're doing likewise.

[FlaviusAetius]

Well before EOD, this was a policy vote because Demon hadn't shown up.



About 5 hours before EOD, the wagons were:
dam 6
Ham 4
lfi 3
Jam 2
And a bunch of other one-vote wagons (maybe another 2 vote after Jamie, I'm cribbing from the bot).

Of those wagons, lfischl was the one I was most null on, so voted for him to start getting some competitive wagons, because that leads to more useful data later.



I was on mobile for EOD. I did not think it was Damo, and I didn't have a good sense of Ham, so I voted for the null over my townread.



As for you wanting me to be DARING! BOLD! BRASH! and whatever else, I don't care, that's not how I play day 1, that's basically never how I play.

Can you explain the fischl wagon and why you chose to consolidate on him specifically? I never understood this wagon and still dont what did I miss?

Lfischl is consistently lurky, which is a point against him, but mostly he was the best option to push another wagon into contention to see what happened. I think days with more activity and more wagons provide more information that a head-to-head.

I dont like this bomb thrower mentality if you are going to vote for someone have some reasoning behind it or people are going to suspect you; what do you think happend with damo? He voted HB and consistently refused to explain it for no reason whatsoever other than to be difficult

[Vecna]

Im saying people asking whats the case is a GOOD thing, not a BAD thing.

my point is that it makes the whole thing dumb as rocks - if there's a clearly laid out case, voting is taking a position on that case. this d1, people spent more time arguing about if a case existed than about the actual cases. this is posting without positioning, and it's probably difficult to discern anything from it atm. (inb4 someone says 'bona says no rereading! bona says no rereading!' that's not what i'm saying. i'm saying that there's an extra layer of shit compared to normal)

I think people did this because the cases on people werent good;
HB cracked under pressure from damo, who never explained his case
lfischl's case was never made(?) atleast not that Im aware of
My case was a flash wagon kept alive from two people who were AFK and didnt have a reason for voting me in the first place
Flum's wagon did have a reasoning behind it...but nothing else really came up so I had to kill it
Dip's wagon didnt gain steam quick enough so we were forced back into the HB & Damo question

All of the wagons were weak D1 and damo being alive right now gives us more questions than answers.

this post just reminded me of something.

lfischl did not attack anyone over getting voted.

As town the slot always lurked a bit, but it would always come out of hiding to attack people voting them with genuine righteous indignation. This has been a consistent characteristic i remember occuring in a number of games.

Anyone have any more recent meta-stuff that jives with or disagrees with ny assesment that this could be a thing?

[Foxcastle]

Proof Fox is Mafia:

"What I learned from last game is that your style of play just gets my attention in the wrong way and I need to learn other ways to read you. That's what I meant when I suggested we avoid last game's debacle."

"I mean, it's kind of the same, but I'm the one who has deliberately not scumread you. No offense, something about the way you type in these games makes me think you're scum in my very bones. Thus we had an enormous ongoing battle in the first game we played together. But then I reflected on the experience and learned, and so now I don't use that as the basis for my assessment of you."

can u explain this 1 sweet? im not following

As you can see, both things are the same. The first quote comes from scum Fox, trying to stay off of sweetandcool's radar. The second quote is from this game. Fox is Mafia, das ist klar.

It's almost like scum have an incentive to stick to the truth whenever possible.

[FlaviusAetius]

##VOTE Damo

nonononono
you cannot be THIS INACTIVE and not even explain why you vote for someone! I understand why >I< would vote damo, but why would YOU? As far as I know you havent even been paying attention this entire game

[Foxcastle]

Can you explain the fischl wagon and why you chose to consolidate on him specifically? I never understood this wagon and still dont what did I miss?

Lfischl is consistently lurky, which is a point against him, but mostly he was the best option to push another wagon into contention to see what happened. I think days with more activity and more wagons provide more information that a head-to-head.

I dont like this bomb thrower mentality if you are going to vote for someone have some reasoning behind it or people are going to suspect you; what do you think happend with damo? He voted HB and consistently refused to explain it for no reason whatsoever other than to be difficult

LOL, I am pretty far down the line of people who need to be scolded for throwing bombs.

[sweetandcool]

##VOTE Flavius for dictator.

[Fluminator]

Jamiet, Damo played the exact same way he always played. Why were you so offended by it this time and not any of the other games you've played with him?

[Balki Bartokomous]

His votes, in particular.

(I literally have read half the game, plus a Fox ISO )

I don’t think Balki is bullying Fox persay but it reads to me that he wants to get rid of Fox because he’s had GREAT reads on people. It’s one of his quirks. Balki is great at convincing people (I’m not sure if this is confidential information but he is a lawyer)

The way I’ve read Fox this game is that he’s good at seeing the big picture, which spells trouble for someone trying to deceptively drive bandwagons. Of course, that entire argument could be contrived and they’re both mafia, and if they’re both mafia, Balki could be saccing Fox for town points. Those are the vibes I getting so far.

X to doubt, Foxcastle made it pretty clear Balki will suspect Foxcastle no matter what for doing analysis without actual analysis, whether it was true or not(I dont think its true this game I felt Foxcastle has been helpful), soo if Fox ends up being mafia then Balki is just being Balki targetting Fox, if Fox turns up townie, then Balki is just being Balki targetting Fox, it means nothing for him and wont give him any points

I just want to be very repetitive and clear. I do not suspect Fox in this game for “doing analysis without actual analysis.” Perhaps I read him that way for those reasons in games from many years ago, but that is not the source of my suspicion here.

I suspect Fox in this game for low-risk, poorly thought-out votes and what appeared to be a purposeful attempt to exist in the blind spots of the game.

Just because I correctly scumread Fox in some but not all games years ago does not mean I should be ignored here, and I don’t like that Fox’s response was to try to discredit me in this way without engaging with my argument in this game.

I also don’t like your attempt to make this all conventional wisdom. I feel like the motivation of your post is to discredit me, and I think that’s a motivation that is more consistent with scum than town.

##vote Flavius

[FlaviusAetius]

Wild Magic: Once per game, may choose to freeze all votes for the day, allowing only people who have not voted to still place a vote. This will be processed as a live action.

Yike.

##Unvote

(But my voting INTENTION is to vote for Damo - who is Obvscum!!!!)

I don't think we should hold votes out of fear that Wild Magic might lock us in. Wild Magic might ruin one day (if it even exists), but if people are consistently holding votes and unvoting, that's going to weaken our ability to analyze the entire game.

Thats why we should do my strategy vote for someone and then unvote, that way we can still track votes; if you are someone who does the unvote, and arent switching your votes everytime you want to vote someone new, I am not accepting an excuse "oh I was scared of Wild Magic" there IS a remedy to this, thiss ISNT an excuse to hedge the entire day

[FlaviusAetius]

I don’t think Balki is bullying Fox persay but it reads to me that he wants to get rid of Fox because he’s had GREAT reads on people. It’s one of his quirks. Balki is great at convincing people (I’m not sure if this is confidential information but he is a lawyer)

The way I’ve read Fox this game is that he’s good at seeing the big picture, which spells trouble for someone trying to deceptively drive bandwagons. Of course, that entire argument could be contrived and they’re both mafia, and if they’re both mafia, Balki could be saccing Fox for town points. Those are the vibes I getting so far.

X to doubt, Foxcastle made it pretty clear Balki will suspect Foxcastle no matter what for doing analysis without actual analysis, whether it was true or not(I dont think its true this game I felt Foxcastle has been helpful), soo if Fox ends up being mafia then Balki is just being Balki targetting Fox, if Fox turns up townie, then Balki is just being Balki targetting Fox, it means nothing for him and wont give him any points

I just want to be very repetitive and clear. I do not suspect Fox in this game for “doing analysis without actual analysis.” Perhaps I read him that way for those reasons in games from many years ago, but that is not the source of my suspicion here.

I suspect Fox in this game for low-risk, poorly thought-out votes and what appeared to be a purposeful attempt to exist in the blind spots of the game.

Just because I correctly scumread Fox in some but not all games years ago does not mean I should be ignored here, and I don’t like that Fox’s response was to try to discredit me in this way without engaging with my argument in this game.

I also don’t like your attempt to make this all conventional wisdom. I feel like the motivation of your post is to discredit me, and I think that’s a motivation that is more consistent with scum than town.

##vote Flavius

Im not trying to discredit you Im just saying your push against Foxcastle tells us nothing, no matter what foxcastle has turned up or not, I liked a lot of your other stuff you have posted

[Fluminator]

Flavius literally got offended by my townread of him. That is not scum behavior.

I'm willing to give pass to people who pushed damo only on day 1, but the people pushing him today are on thin ice.

[sweetandcool]

I don’t think Balki is bullying Fox persay but it reads to me that he wants to get rid of Fox because he’s had GREAT reads on people. It’s one of his quirks. Balki is great at convincing people (I’m not sure if this is confidential information but he is a lawyer)

The way I’ve read Fox this game is that he’s good at seeing the big picture, which spells trouble for someone trying to deceptively drive bandwagons. Of course, that entire argument could be contrived and they’re both mafia, and if they’re both mafia, Balki could be saccing Fox for town points. Those are the vibes I getting so far.

X to doubt, Foxcastle made it pretty clear Balki will suspect Foxcastle no matter what for doing analysis without actual analysis, whether it was true or not(I dont think its true this game I felt Foxcastle has been helpful), soo if Fox ends up being mafia then Balki is just being Balki targetting Fox, if Fox turns up townie, then Balki is just being Balki targetting Fox, it means nothing for him and wont give him any points

I just want to be very repetitive and clear. I do not suspect Fox in this game for “doing analysis without actual analysis.” Perhaps I read him that way for those reasons in games from many years ago, but that is not the source of my suspicion here.

I suspect Fox in this game for low-risk, poorly thought-out votes and what appeared to be a purposeful attempt to exist in the blind spots of the game.

Just because I correctly scumread Fox in some but not all games years ago does not mean I should be ignored here, and I don’t like that Fox’s response was to try to discredit me in this way without engaging with my argument in this game.

I also don’t like your attempt to make this all conventional wisdom. I feel like the motivation of your post is to discredit me, and I think that’s a motivation that is more consistent with scum than town.

##vote Flavius

Oh goody, bussing.

[FlaviusAetius]

Here's my theory: Damo is scum. Foodcoats slipped up an crossposted his "WOOO" to the wrong thread and then tried to play it off. Foodcoats is now bussing Damo to further cover his tracks.

Hm, actually food pushed Damo D1 pretty heavily and pushed him into a tie with Ham near EOD.

Still, I think the best explanation for his "WOOO" post is that it was meant for the scum thread. It still makes sense if you consider that Food was playing a highwire act bussing Damo, so he'd be thrilled that his risk paid off.

There is no scum thread, day chat is via discord