M89: Baldurs Gate Mafia Game Thread

[brainbomb]

Meanwhile at the Pizza Rat

Jeff: *sips his iced tea* why would they put a fucking rat on stage that looks like its coming off a crystal meth binge, and think "hey, kids are gonna love this?"

Kara: Jeff... ever since youve become a Mind Flayer, I feel like youre so negative all the time. When I told you I was into tentacle stuff... this just isnt what I meant.

Jeff: I can change. Kara, please, ill stop eating peoples brains, ill even stop calling unto the netherbrain to give it daily reports about the neighbors lawnmowing habits..

damo666 (5) Col7by lfischl foodcoats TheMadMonarch Foxcastle
ghug (3) FlaviusAetius Dousing Ezio
DiplomacyandWarfare (2) DemonRHK* worcej
Foxcastle (2) Balki Bartokomous sweetandcool
lfischl (2) Squigs44 Fluminator
FlaviusAetius (2) Bonatogether aarodactyl
sweetandcool (1) DiplomacyandWarfare
Ezio (1) Yoyoyozo
Dousing (1) ghug
BunnyGo (1) JustAGuyNamedWill
Jamiet99uk (1) damo666

Unvote (2) BunnyGo Jamiet99uk

Non-votes
Vecna

Damo is scheduled to die
7 hours remain in Day 2

[DiplomacyandWarfare]

Alr I'm caught up and have a few things to say.
Thing 1:
I have a new reads list

I keep going back and forth on damo's alignment though. I feel like I'm missing something.

[Vecna]

That's actually town points for Vecna not realizing Kak was one of the highest profile players this game. I think if he was mafia he'd objectively recognize that lol.

or maybe its looking rather poorly on those overestimating the actual influence he was having.

[DiplomacyandWarfare]

Things 2:
Demon is either scum or town tunneling me. Of the two scum seems more likely.

[worcej]

If we're talking low impact players though, I think worcej has been pretty low impact. The one meaningful thing worcej did was switch off the damo wagon they started to give HB the lead, which doesn't look great

I agree and don’t fault you for this but again, I was upfront that I am business traveling atm

[sweetandcool]

Fox seems too frustrated for them to be on a scum team with Balki. At most it feels like one of them is.

Daychat

No

Yes.

[DiplomacyandWarfare]

Thing 3:
Most of the current wagons are terrible (with the possible exception of the damo wagon).
##VOTE FLAVIUSAETIUS

[sweetandcool]

##GM FURTHER NOTE

Please remember to send notices to both GM and Co-GM if you desire to ensure your action/comment/food order is acted upon.

While netherbrain is VERY reliable and present... if something comes up the the unreliable and oft-absent CoGM has to end a phase, if said CoGM does not have all the info, your chosen action might be missed. And that will be on you.

That is all.

I'd like to order Foodcoats.

[Foxcastle]

Thing 3:
Most of the current wagons are terrible (with the possible exception of the damo wagon).
##VOTE FLAVIUSAETIUS

Coming around on Dip being scum, maybe.

[Squigs44]

@Squiggs: On D1 I thought Damo was being surly in a way that was going to attract attention, a thing scum don't want to do, so based on that I concluded he wasn't scum.

The foodcoats made his "WOOO" post, and the only way that makes sense to me is if he was celebrating a scum victory in a TvS EOD, ergo, Damo is scum.

Also, while I thought Damo was being too blatant about it to be scum, surly Damo has been scum-Damo in the past.

You don't think foodcoats could have been making a joke there?

And if surly damo has been scum-damo in the past, why didn't that factor into your read before when you went out of your way to push his opposition wagon? Seems like conf!bias at best

[Jamiet99uk]

@Jamiet have you ever played with Damo before?

Forgive me, I did not notice this question.

Yes I have.

To me Damo is pretty consistent across all games, so what's different about Damo this time that has you tunneling in him?

He's obvscum!!!!

Read his posts.

[Vecna]

I think Squigs is Town, by the way. He is my first town read!

you went from "ill solve the game tonight" to the most obvious townread around?

not a lot given you state you read half the game buddy.

[DiplomacyandWarfare]

Things 2:
Demon is either scum or town tunneling me. Of the two scum seems more likely.

Thing 4 (aka elaborating on thing 2):
The kak kill basically perfectly sets me up for wagoning today. Demon is extremely enthusiastic about scumreading and wagoning me. First post:

"KAK
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

SWING THE SUBS CAN WAIT< RESPECT THE DEAD

vote DiplomacyandWarfare

end"
(#s redacted so I don't accidently vote myself)
Post of "reasons" for voting me:
"1) Respect the dead. Kak wanted D&W.
2) It kinda doesn't. But D&W's hard on for kak into claiming he knew he was town all along on D2 is a textbook distance attempt, esp. when I've gone full rabid dog and there was a call for him.
3) D&W played no small part in HB flipping instead of damo, then immediately hedged the defense post flip.
4) Respect the dead."

Like Demon is basically riding the kill to try to wagon me today. This, and especially the fact that he went right for it immediately after the kak kill, must be scum.

[sweetandcool]

Proof Fox is Mafia:

"What I learned from last game is that your style of play just gets my attention in the wrong way and I need to learn other ways to read you. That's what I meant when I suggested we avoid last game's debacle."

"I mean, it's kind of the same, but I'm the one who has deliberately not scumread you. No offense, something about the way you type in these games makes me think you're scum in my very bones. Thus we had an enormous ongoing battle in the first game we played together. But then I reflected on the experience and learned, and so now I don't use that as the basis for my assessment of you."

How? I'm saying the same thing in both of these posts, which I think validates my claim pretty well that I am deliberately discounting my gut reaction to your posting. The point is that there is something about your tone, diction, style, how you argue, etc that rubs me the wrong way and makes me think you're scum when in reality it's NAI.

You said this as Mafia the first time as a way I staying off my radar. Now you are attempting to use the same truck. It's also a weird thing to say because I have changed quite a bit since our last game. It seems you are trying to make a deal with me. When really we just need to properly evaluate each other.

I thought you were seeming possibly Town, but you really blew it with your Balki charade. It's clear to me that whole thing was fabricated, probably on both sides.

[Squigs44]

Forgive me, I did not notice this question.

Yes I have.

To me Damo is pretty consistent across all games, so what's different about Damo this time that has you tunneling in him?

He's obvscum!!!!

Read his posts.

Very tempted to policy vote this

Jamie the scum team is more than 1 person, who are damos supposed teammates and why?

[sweetandcool]

Lots of day left but these wagons are all over so I’ll push one of my reads into proper contention:

##VOTE damo

Bad coat!

[damo666]

Calling my voters:

What do you think you'll learn when I flip town? I'll tell you. Nada.

If I were scum being so 'obvscum' don't you think my teammates would have bussed me rather than save me.

Fact of the matter is it was TvT and town largely did scum's work for them.

The only contenders for having been saved are Flav and Flum.

If I am the day's miskill then if they survive N2 look very closely at Bona and ghug.

##vote Bona

[Col7by]

You pointed to the bad code and so I asked people to ignore the code and look at the data itself to draw their own conclusions. Are you advocating we don't give reads on you because Balkis case would contaminate those reads or something?

OK squigs: how do you feel about their abilities to argue terribly like this? Does Balki keep up this weird push as town? As scum? Based on Fox's claims that he wouldn't join at all until Balki dropped, does that make this frustration more towny? more scummy? more NAI?

@Vecna: same questions. You were talking about Balki before he even showed up and have disappeared since. Did he sub in for you?

I only really remember one game with Balki, where he was scum and did some fake theater stuff. I think the Balki/Fox scum team theory is too much tin foil to follow for now, but I also wouldn't rule out either of them individually being scum.

I once townread Fox because he put a lot of work into making a spreadsheet and I thought there was no way scum would do that, and yet Fox was scum. So I think scum Fox is very capable of putting that case together and being frustrated. I also think the frustration could be real even if Fox is scum. Like it's arguably more annoying if you get caught as scum due to a railroading player instead of getting caught doing something scummy.

Tl;dr - I don't think the Balki/Fox dramatics give us the best info on their alignments, and we should consider the rest of their games collectively. Fox is probably null for me now. As Balki pointed out, he's kinda lived on the fringes and has played pretty standard. Balki I'm leaning slight scum recently, mostly based on feel.

Either way I think there are better options today.
Lfischl is both lurking and giving contradictory posts.
I voted Jamie early for a reason, and recently they have latched onto this Damo tunnel in a weird way. I would have expected Jamie to give more comprehensive thoughts at this point.
I feel less good about a damo vote because I think it's a 50/50 on his alignment and if we wagon him again and he flips town we have very little information (basically spread the wagons).
I don't hate Ezio or Flum wagons either.

Does the Fisch wagon give us anything?

[Foxcastle]

@Squiggs: On D1 I thought Damo was being surly in a way that was going to attract attention, a thing scum don't want to do, so based on that I concluded he wasn't scum.

The foodcoats made his "WOOO" post, and the only way that makes sense to me is if he was celebrating a scum victory in a TvS EOD, ergo, Damo is scum.

Also, while I thought Damo was being too blatant about it to be scum, surly Damo has been scum-Damo in the past.

You don't think foodcoats could have been making a joke there?

And if surly damo has been scum-damo in the past, why didn't that factor into your read before when you went out of your way to push his opposition wagon? Seems like conf!bias at best

I mixed up where I was posting several games ago, and it's shocking how easily people will believe it is a joke.

Also, is it a good joke? Does it indicate sarcasm in some way, like he's addressing town? Is there evidence of some buildup of emotion prior to the flip? I don't think so, so where does this level of all-caps WOOO-ing come from from? When called out on it, why is his reaction to claim that he's scum (making it a joke, sure), rather than explain that he was being sardonic at town? After he makes the "joke" that he's scum, why does he feel the need to clarify he's not scum? That strikes me as nervous rather than annoyed.

As I said, I thought Damo was being too overtly surly in a way that I didn't think he'd do as scum.

Question for you, Squiggs. Which is more townie: someone who has a lot of uncertainty in their reads and makes u-turns and suddenly changes their mind, or someone whose reads are measured and overall consistent and evolve steadily?

[Foxcastle]

Proof Fox is Mafia:

"What I learned from last game is that your style of play just gets my attention in the wrong way and I need to learn other ways to read you. That's what I meant when I suggested we avoid last game's debacle."

"I mean, it's kind of the same, but I'm the one who has deliberately not scumread you. No offense, something about the way you type in these games makes me think you're scum in my very bones. Thus we had an enormous ongoing battle in the first game we played together. But then I reflected on the experience and learned, and so now I don't use that as the basis for my assessment of you."

How? I'm saying the same thing in both of these posts, which I think validates my claim pretty well that I am deliberately discounting my gut reaction to your posting. The point is that there is something about your tone, diction, style, how you argue, etc that rubs me the wrong way and makes me think you're scum when in reality it's NAI.

You said this as Mafia the first time as a way I staying off my radar. Now you are attempting to use the same truck. It's also a weird thing to say because I have changed quite a bit since our last game. It seems you are trying to make a deal with me. When really we just need to properly evaluate each other.

I thought you were seeming possibly Town, but you really blew it with your Balki charade. It's clear to me that whole thing was fabricated, probably on both sides.

Let's kill Balki first, then.