M89: Baldurs Gate Mafia Game Thread

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm not very caught up but let me start here:

##vote Diplomacy

I truly have no idea what's going on being almost 40 pages behind. I don't have the time to get caught up on the whole game this evening, but his D1 post count is beyond normal to me for his slot and I think he may be excited scum.

Again - I am not following the damo wagon here. Using the bot, Jamie's at least saying he's scum and crusaded HB. Col7by doesn't explain his reasoning well enough for me to see and lfischl is voting damo because of HB.

Was damo really the main manipulator for the HB wagon? He voted him first but then wasn't a deciding vote to ensure he died... I don't see the context to blame him for it.

Iso Damo's posts from D1.

You will see him endvoting Hamilton quite early on, and repeatedly pushing him without providing any real reasons.

He was screaming "Hamilton is obvscum!!!!" in repeated posts, yet when questioned, would not elaborate.

He was a big driver of the Hamilton wagon.

Damo is obvscum!!!!

[Jamiet99uk]

Hey everyone.

My anxieties got to me at work today and I'm about this close to a meltdown. I will end up taking any criticism of my gameplay very personally, so for my own (and yours) benefit, I will be logging off for the night without catching up.

Wagons are all over the place, so I am going to leave my vote as is. It was appropriate last I read.

Sorry again. And best of luck in the morning (EOD).

TheMadMonarch has not posted since this post on Page 31.

We're now at Page 116.

This is a concern.

[FlaviusAetius]

3) Flavius gives me weird vibes but I’ve never played with them before. Just generally I felt like they’ve had a lot of exaggerated reactions to things.

Really? I feel like they're fairly composed tbh. Also the fact that nobody is really out here vouching for Flavius makes him fairly clean town-read to me tbh

I think he calmed down closer to eod1 but when I was active, it felt like he was posting a lot and getting very frustrated but also very vocal about how he didn’t know who to vote. Which feels weird on day one.

Your right I didnt know whether to make heads or tails of the HB vs Damo situation, I was missing 10 pages of context and the time was ticking down. Eventually I determined damo made the most sense out of the two...I wanted Flum to be a wagon but I couldnt find enough evidence on him, and I still think Dip is a mafia but that flash wagon wasnt gaining enough steam quick enough, and then >I< was becoming a wagon so it forced me to vote on two wagons I didnt want to vote for.
I still think our vigilante should have killed damo during the night; he's a big question mark and now and Im half tempted to vote for him, I still think our vigilante should take him out during the night so I guess do that during N2 now.

[FlaviusAetius]

##vote Diplomacy

I truly have no idea what's going on being almost 40 pages behind. I don't have the time to get caught up on the whole game this evening, but his D1 post count is beyond normal to me for his slot and I think he may be excited scum.

Again - I am not following the damo wagon here. Using the bot, Jamie's at least saying he's scum and crusaded HB. Col7by doesn't explain his reasoning well enough for me to see and lfischl is voting damo because of HB.

Was damo really the main manipulator for the HB wagon? He voted him first but then wasn't a deciding vote to ensure he died... I don't see the context to blame him for it.

Damo is the one who started the HB wagon, refused to explain it; it put HB under pressure and he cracked under it; which made more people think he was mafia, and made both wagons weak; which made other people(including myself!) want to find other wagons, none were viable so we were back on those two...all damo's fault for why that played the way it did, and he still has yet to explain his HB vote. He's left a giant hole in D1 and has got to go

[FlaviusAetius]

I think he calmed down closer to eod1 but when I was active, it felt like he was posting a lot and getting very frustrated but also very vocal about how he didn’t know who to vote. Which feels weird on day one.

Flavius was fine D1? Also you're admitting that N1 and D2 flavius is fine wich makes me question the purpose of you scumreading Flavius

He wasn’t fine like 30-60 minutes before eod1. Also I probably scumlean him at most. I don’t have any strong scumreads at this point (and I think anyone that does is likely overconfident considering how early it is in the game)

I dont understand you, EOD is literally 30-60 mintues before the day ends...and how can you say you dont have any strong scumreads at this point where all you have is voted me. Is it because your ONLY evidence for voting me is how I REACTED to you voting for me...?

[FlaviusAetius]

I don’t feel strongly enough about it push a wagon right now. Bunny just asked who my strongly scum lean was. I’ve also only had 1 full day off work since may 20th, so I honestly don’t have the energy to do so either.

??? How did I act weird during EOD, you werent THERE for it and voted me anyways. You and Will were part of the reason the flash wagon even happened, two people who voted me and werent there for the end of the day to even defend your vote. It made me a viable wagon without bringing in evidence...

If you read what I wrote, I said that you were acting weird 30-60 minutes before eod, not that you were doing it up until eod (which tbh was kind of a blur when I had to reread several hours of posts when I was out of meetings yesterday). And honestly, all I’ve been saying is that I scumlean you.

@dousing this post is an example of what I meant about it feeling like their reactions are performative. But I’ve also never played with them and they wouldn’t be the last person to reaction strongly when accused of being even a bit scummy.

I dont understand why you keep saying this Im simply defending myself, I even told HB this that it was like he was deliberately ignoring the wagon on him, he needed to actually defend himself if he wanted his wagon to go away; unfortunately it didnt...it should have

[FlaviusAetius]

Well, first off, I think you took mysterious to mean quiet, which is not the case. I'm always loud. Kak is right that I work harder to be townread when I'm scum, but it's more that I say shit when I'm town that's not designed to look good.

Beyond that, though this isn't logically coherent.

For one, I never said I wanted to solve the game with Vecna. For two, you're acknowledging yourself that I said something that you and Kak both found scummy, which runs against the idea that I'm playing to be townread. For three, the entire basis of his own argument is that I'm openly insisting I'm town, which isn't something that regularly garners townreads.

It feels like you're just trying to jump on a shitty argument that you can wash your hands of by blaming Kak when you're wrong. I do not get the sense that you're applying serious consideration here.

What on earth are you talking about?
"I say stuff not designed to look good" when you are TOWN!?! That defeats the whole purpose of being a townie and is anti-town at best, you are just confusing everyone and inviting townies to suspect you and then be suspected for suspecting you over totally reasonable stuff. No what Kak meant was that you tried to stay NAI as a townie...not that you ACTIVELY tried to do stuff that was anti-town.

You and Vecna were being buddy buddy about solving the game, and I put a stop to that real quick by saying no you guys should try to solve the game independently, that would tell us a lot more than some random team up.

You saying this scummy thing is exactly the contradiction I put forward that you did
"So either your a big solver and thats unlike your town meta
Or you are a solver, and you all of a sudden dont want to solve until day 4"

Either way doesn't look good. His entire basis for town is threefolded, one you fit well into the team, and two you are going against your meta when you are a townie, and three(one that Im putting together) you are acting like a big solver, but then all of a sudden dont want to solve the game, that you havent answered for. I dont like that no one else here is paying attention to what Kak is saying but to the @Dip voters;

Ghug and Flum tell us a lot more about Kak's team than Dip does.

radar check: how many games have you played

7 or so on this website maybe more idk I just checked the score sheet, once or twice in person...not that it should matter!!!

[FlaviusAetius]

Huh so Ezio showed up and whined and left.

We have to kill that slot because it will do nothing and we can’t have that later.

##VOTE Ezio

I dont understand why we HAVE to kill a lurker TODAY. Its like taking a shot in the dark, we just need to do a better job pressuring them to talk

What do we gain by leaving a lurker alive?
What do we gain by leaving an active player alive?

I mean I dont disagree, but its possible they could die in a lot of different ways due to lots of roles in the setup, I still think we should pressure them to talk, and they could still get replaced by a sub. We should consider doing this D3, I think we can learn a lot more by figuring some people out instead of doing whats equivalent to a nokill

[FlaviusAetius]

@Foxcastle, what would help me the most would be if you would address each of your three votes and explain why you made them. It would also help if you address my suspicion that you have spent the game focused on low hanging fruit.

Well before EOD, this was a policy vote because Demon hadn't shown up.

But for real, ##VOTE DemonRHK. Lurking is shirking.

About 5 hours before EOD, the wagons were:
dam 6
Ham 4
lfi 3
Jam 2
And a bunch of other one-vote wagons (maybe another 2 vote after Jamie, I'm cribbing from the bot).

Of those wagons, lfischl was the one I was most null on, so voted for him to start getting some competitive wagons, because that leads to more useful data later.

It's time to start consolidating wagons.

##vote lfischl

I was on mobile for EOD. I did not think it was Damo, and I didn't have a good sense of Ham, so I voted for the null over my townread.

I don’t think it’s damo.

##vote ham

As for you wanting me to be DARING! BOLD! BRASH! and whatever else, I don't care, that's not how I play day 1, that's basically never how I play.

Can you explain the fischl wagon and why you chose to consolidate on him specifically? I never understood this wagon and still dont what did I miss?

[FlaviusAetius]

did i say i did? i stand by my votes

Im saying people asking whats the case is a GOOD thing, not a BAD thing.

my point is that it makes the whole thing dumb as rocks - if there's a clearly laid out case, voting is taking a position on that case. this d1, people spent more time arguing about if a case existed than about the actual cases. this is posting without positioning, and it's probably difficult to discern anything from it atm. (inb4 someone says 'bona says no rereading! bona says no rereading!' that's not what i'm saying. i'm saying that there's an extra layer of shit compared to normal)

I think people did this because the cases on people werent good;
HB cracked under pressure from damo, who never explained his case
lfischl's case was never made(?) atleast not that Im aware of
My case was a flash wagon kept alive from two people who were AFK and didnt have a reason for voting me in the first place
Flum's wagon did have a reasoning behind it...but nothing else really came up so I had to kill it
Dip's wagon didnt gain steam quick enough so we were forced back into the HB & Damo question

All of the wagons were weak D1 and damo being alive right now gives us more questions than answers.

[FlaviusAetius]

I know someone said "oh the cases D1 are NEVER good, but cmon now theres stuff you can pull from it; even if its wrong...the cases were literally nothing; also you still havent said WHO actually did this thing to any large extent, I think too many people were throwing their vote around way too much

[FlaviusAetius]

I disagree with ghug on enough things that I don't think he's scum... probably...

huh? why does that matter, you guys could just be reading the situation differently...or he's working towards an ulterior motive...

Ghug has successfully pocketed me multiple times by playing almost exactly how Vecna is now playing. So him disagreeing with me is something unique to every scum!ghug I have seen

hmmm, maybe he's realized this and is now trying for a different strategy? If you say he's done this multiple times as mafia then...surely he's changed?

[FlaviusAetius]

strongly strongly dislike this post

I was just about to bump this because this whole FoxCastle thing is derailing things real quick, why do you dislike it? I like it

it's externally moving focus on a player being debated from their weak argument, to something presumably something stronger-looking (again, effort isn't inherently towny in my opinion). it doesn't engage with the weak point, but tries to move away from it without resolving it

the man is famous for his spreadsheet how can we not atleast look at it

[FlaviusAetius]

1) if you were vig, I highly doubt you’d be soft claim like this. So this question is kind of moot
2) I don’t know the meta but it seems bad to vig shot here entirely
3) Flavius gives me weird vibes but I’ve never played with them before. Just generally I felt like they’ve had a lot of exaggerated reactions to things.

This is how I play. I basically live tweet the game and respond to it as I'm catching up it, I think A LOT of people play it like that, in such a large game its basically impossible to be up to date on it 24/7. Also I know you made a comment that you accused me and now you accuse me even harder because I defended myself. That is VERY backwards logic, and it wasnt just you it was will too, and you both just went AFK after accusing me, so now you BOTH made me a viable wagon at EOD without even being present and all you had was "vibes". I wish you didnt do that

1) I know a lot of people do it. You just get really heated which feels over the top.
2) anyone that says they have more than vibes on d1 is being dishonest
3) I was pretty vocal about having a meeting. Unfortunately when I have several hours of meetings a day, 2pm is a lousy eod time.

You can DEFINETLY find something more than just vibes D1...not saying it cant play a part on any day but it should be more than JUST that.
Its OK if you cant be there for EoD I just dont like that you voted me and dipped, I would of liked you actually made a case or something or were at least around to explain your reasonings.
Otherwise...you should just vote for one of the lead wagons and make EOD less chaotic

[damo666]

@Flav you've made your mind up so I'll ignore you but for the rest of the class...

Ham's posts were very scummy hence my read. I was wrong but have no regrets (other than to Ham himself). Even if all 5 scum voted Ham (and nobody is gonna think that) AT LEAST 3 other town also thought Ham was scum, probably a lot more.

Town can be wrong. All the non scum who voted me for instance.

I think we should be looking at Dip Flum Jamie and maybe ghug.

Will is a strong townread.

[damo666]

Add Bona to the look at list.

[FlaviusAetius]

Really? I feel like they're fairly composed tbh. Also the fact that nobody is really out here vouching for Flavius makes him fairly clean town-read to me tbh

Thank you! I just type fast maybe that means I come across as flailing but I really wasnt, it was just a stressful situation and things werent consolidating, Flum's wagon gained too much traction without the case actually being fully fleshed out, Dip's wagon wasn't gaining steam, and HB was a bad candidate, so I went for damo and now *cough* some people *cough* will and aaro *cough* thought of me as mafia based on energy and then went AFK...causing a lot of the problems that EOD had.

It wasn’t based on energy. But it’s not worth rehashing at this point.

Also besides the miskill, what problems did eod have? Genuinely curious about this because it’s hard to pick up on stuff like that when rereading.

There wasnt consolidation so there was a risk for a tie.
Virtually all of the wagons had bad or basic cases against them so it was hard to pick. Also for me it was chaotic because I didnt get to fully read up, and Im sure for other people too. So the cases tat were bad werent even able to be hashed out by anyone, and the flash wagons made it so people like me couldnt formulate proper cases against people.

[FlaviusAetius]

@Flav you've made your mind up so I'll ignore you but for the rest of the class...

Ham's posts were very scummy hence my read. I was wrong but have no regrets (other than to Ham himself). Even if all 5 scum voted Ham (and nobody is gonna think that) AT LEAST 3 other town also thought Ham was scum, probably a lot more.

Town can be wrong. All the non scum who voted me for instance.

I think we should be looking at Dip Flum Jamie and maybe ghug.

Will is a strong townread.

No no no, I understand why people thought HB was scummy he cracked under pressure, but YOU were the one who started his wagon and YOU were the one who failed to explain it. No one is saying town cant be wrong, but town should be able to explain the reasons they vote for things and not just brush off any questions about it

[damo666]

Hey everyone.

My anxieties got to me at work today and I'm about this close to a meltdown. I will end up taking any criticism of my gameplay very personally, so for my own (and yours) benefit, I will be logging off for the night without catching up.

Wagons are all over the place, so I am going to leave my vote as is. It was appropriate last I read.

Sorry again. And best of luck in the morning (EOD).

TheMadMonarch has not posted since this post on Page 31.

We're now at Page 116.

This is a concern.

Yes, I agree.

At the risk of sounding cruel (I'm not I'm being practical) if she has posted by say EOD-30 minutes and is in clear danger of modkill perhaps we should policy vote her.

Having said that I hope she is able to play or at the very least get subbed.

(Please don't scumread me for this, that would be inappropriate).

[damo666]

Thank you! I just type fast maybe that means I come across as flailing but I really wasnt, it was just a stressful situation and things werent consolidating, Flum's wagon gained too much traction without the case actually being fully fleshed out, Dip's wagon wasn't gaining steam, and HB was a bad candidate, so I went for damo and now *cough* some people *cough* will and aaro *cough* thought of me as mafia based on energy and then went AFK...causing a lot of the problems that EOD had.

It wasn’t based on energy. But it’s not worth rehashing at this point.

Also besides the miskill, what problems did eod have? Genuinely curious about this because it’s hard to pick up on stuff like that when rereading.

There wasnt consolidation so there was a risk for a tie.
Virtually all of the wagons had bad or basic cases against them so it was hard to pick. Also for me it was chaotic because I didnt get to fully read up, and Im sure for other people too. So the cases tat were bad werent even able to be hashed out by anyone, and the flash wagons made it so people like me couldnt formulate proper cases against people.

It was day 1. No info. Always like that.