20 Questions, Game 298

[DreamTrawler]

Born in East Africa (UN Geoscheme) or what is now Nigeria, Ghana, or Angola?

[Aristocrat]

Born in East Africa or what is now Nigeria, Ghana, or Angola?

Yes, defining Eastern Africa according to the UN geoscheme.

I have to depart for a little bit but will check in later to answer any questions that have popped up in the meantime.

[DreamTrawler]

Going to make a slightly bold free guess: Freddie Mercury?

[Dousing]

Were they a scientist or a musician?

[DarthPorg36]

A writer or narrowly defined artist?

[Hominidae]

A writer or narrowly defined artist?

Might want to make this conditional on the other one being "no".

Born in 1902 or later?

[DarthPorg36]

A writer or narrowly defined artist?

Might want to make this conditional on the other one being "no".

Born in 1902 or later?

yes this is now conditional. the posts happened simultaneously so I was unaware of the previous post

[Aristocrat]

Going to make a slightly bold free guess: Freddie Mercury?

I can’t answer this as it’s 3 in a row, but if you feel strongly feel free to re-guess now that others have intervened.

Were they a scientist or a musician?

Yes

Born in 1902 or later?

Yes

[Spartaculous]

QM: I hope you will allow this, but I would like to use my free guess on Freddie Mercury, with the understanding that DreamTrawler should be considered the winner of this round if it is right. (If I am not right, then DreamTrawler still has a free guess and I don't; if this is not allowed, then please disregard this.)

[DreamTrawler]

Thank you and sorry - I keep forgetting how the consecutive guess/answer works. Free guess: Freddie Mercury

[Spartaculous]

Thank you and sorry - I keep forgetting how the consecutive guess/answer works. Free guess: Freddie Mercury

It was a very clever guess, and I hope you were right!

[JECE]

Thank you and sorry - I keep forgetting how the consecutive guess/answer works. Free guess: Freddie Mercury

To be fair, that rule keeps getting changed, so it's not just a matter of forgetting. I still think that it makes perfect sense to ask two questions then use a free guess. Use my version of the rules if you win ;-)

[Aristocrat]

QM: I hope you will allow this, but I would like to use my free guess on Freddie Mercury, with the understanding that DreamTrawler should be considered the winner of this round if it is right. (If I am not right, then DreamTrawler still has a free guess and I don't; if this is not allowed, then please disregard this.)

Spartaculous is correct, and I can't do anything to stop the baton from being passed, so DreamTrawler is the next QM. Congrats on the good early guess, DT.

This current game aside (I see no reason to fuss about it), if people don't like the 3-consecutive question/guess prohibition, I would suggest we axe the rule rather than engaging in workarounds that may not be fair to everyone. It's one thing to bend a rule in a way that benefits everyone, like allowing more than 20 questions, but for something that is only going to benefit people unevenly I would suggest we either agree to all follow the rule or to just ditch it.

Edit: Using the JECE rules as they suggest may be the easiest option. Though I prefer the ability to scratch questions be permanently allowed.

[DreamTrawler]

Glad to hear it. I will get the next thread up soon, though it’s late where I am and I am traveling tomorrow, so there may be long gaps of time in between.

I think I will use a combination of the old and new rules - I like the idea of scratching questions, and as for conditionals I think it’s ok but to an extent.

[Spartaculous]

There were some very impressive solves yesterday. Well done to each of Hominidae, Aristocrat, and DreamTrawler.

Since we're on the subject of rules: I've actually had a proposal for reforming the system of free and non-free guesses in the back of my mind for some time. Allowing non-free guesses sometimes causes other guessers to feel like questions are being "wasted", but banning non-free guesses means that, once a guesser uses a free guess, then that guesser has to wait patiently until after Q20. This can also have the effect of changing the two-questions-into-a-guess rule. Hence, I propose:

1. Each guesser is entitled to *two* guesses. There is no distinction between free and non-free guesses.

2. These guesses can be used at any time.

3. Once a guesser has made two incorrect guesses, that guesser cannot make any more guesses for the remainder of the game.

4. After the 20th question is answered, there is a period of 24 hours in which guessers can use their remaining guess(es).

[cdngooner]

I like that suggestion!

[JECE]

Thank you and sorry - I keep forgetting how the consecutive guess/answer works. Free guess: Freddie Mercury

To be fair, that rule keeps getting changed, so it's not just a matter of forgetting. I still think that it makes perfect sense to ask two questions then use a free guess. Use my version of the rules if you win ;-)

Part of it, at least to me, is that the new option of 'passed' makes counting weird. If a question master can't answer a question then I don't think that it should be counted as a spent question.

[Jamiet99uk]

Thank you and sorry - I keep forgetting how the consecutive guess/answer works. Free guess: Freddie Mercury

To be fair, that rule keeps getting changed, so it's not just a matter of forgetting. I still think that it makes perfect sense to ask two questions then use a free guess. Use my version of the rules if you win

Part of it, at least to me, is that the new option of 'passed' makes counting weird. If a question master can't answer a question then I don't think that it should be counted as a spent question.

Of course it shouldn't, BUT until the QM responds, it counts for how many questions you have consecutively asked...

[Dousing]

There were some very impressive solves yesterday. Well done to each of Hominidae, Aristocrat, and DreamTrawler.

Since we're on the subject of rules: I've actually had a proposal for reforming the system of free and non-free guesses in the back of my mind for some time. Allowing non-free guesses sometimes causes other guessers to feel like questions are being "wasted", but banning non-free guesses means that, once a guesser uses a free guess, then that guesser has to wait patiently until after Q20. This can also have the effect of changing the two-questions-into-a-guess rule. Hence, I propose:

1. Each guesser is entitled to *two* guesses. There is no distinction between free and non-free guesses.

2. These guesses can be used at any time.

3. Once a guesser has made two incorrect guesses, that guesser cannot make any more guesses for the remainder of the game.

4. After the 20th question is answered, there is a period of 24 hours in which guessers can use their remaining guess(es).

I obviously haven’t been playing nearly as long as you guys. However, in my opinion I think having 20 cumulative guesses as a team ensures that the players’ (and questionmater’s) enjoyment of the game is unaffected by its popularity (ie: players aren’t limited to six questions if there are only three players, nor are they given 30 because 15 people decided to pop into the forum).

20 questions are a considerable about of questions so I’m not convinced that having 1-2 “wasted” questions throughout the game is truly worth compromising the team-aspect of 20 questions.

However, I do see the argument about free guesses and “wasted” guesses. From my POV I see them in three categories/situations:

1. Someone makes a really early freak guess (in all these scenarios the person has guessed wrong):
- in this case the person has expended their free guess and has to either wait for 20 questions to be asked or dip into the team’s 20 collective guesses. I personally think this is fair because having a correct early free guess is AWESOME *however* the reason it’s awesome comes in how risky it is. In short: if you make the cost of an early guess cheaper you make it’s value cheaper

2. Someone asks a hyper-specific question on the forum:

- in this case, I wouldn’t buy the argument that this question is “wasted.” It only feels that way because it didn’t work out. Had it worked out everyone else would’ve immediately praised that player for their foresight instead of imaging that the question was “wasted” and better used in another capacity. *however* I do have a possible solution to it is people want to fix this

3. Someone’s question overlaps with another’s

- This situation is doubtless case-dependent. But a combination of the scratch-rule, conditional questions, and refereeing from the rest of the players is enough to solve the problems associated with this risk.


A possible addition that might work better instead is perhaps a rule like one of the following:

- “between the first and fifth (or n <--> n+x) guesses, any guess that the QM answers with “yes” will be refunded” or
- “between the … any guess that that the QM answers “no” will be refunded”

I’m not sure if they are the best rules (already I can see a few problems with these rules) however I figured it might be nice to throw out the idea. It could be nice to have a pilot program one of these next games?

If I ever win one, maybe I’ll test them out [in the meantime I’ll go study female Polish-speaking painters born between 1869-1913 who spent the majority of their life outside of their country of birth.]

[Hominidae]

There were some very impressive solves yesterday. Well done to each of Hominidae, Aristocrat, and DreamTrawler.

Since we're on the subject of rules: I've actually had a proposal for reforming the system of free and non-free guesses in the back of my mind for some time. Allowing non-free guesses sometimes causes other guessers to feel like questions are being "wasted", but banning non-free guesses means that, once a guesser uses a free guess, then that guesser has to wait patiently until after Q20. This can also have the effect of changing the two-questions-into-a-guess rule. Hence, I propose:

1. Each guesser is entitled to *two* guesses. There is no distinction between free and non-free guesses.

2. These guesses can be used at any time.

3. Once a guesser has made two incorrect guesses, that guesser cannot make any more guesses for the remainder of the game.

4. After the 20th question is answered, there is a period of 24 hours in which guessers can use their remaining guess(es).

So, I almost support this, but I don't like the idea of someone being locked out of making guesses for the entire game. Maybe have the number reset after the 20 questions are answered?