Mafia 88: Murder at the Meadery - GAME THREAD

[sweetandcool]

RIP thug, I'll try to honor you by not posting hurtful things.

[worcej]

N2 Semi-Wall Post:
Ugh... that tie was 1000% on me and I feel dumb about it. No excuse here, just explanation: I was on my cell and not tracking the VC and saw damo move to Bozo and I moved thinking it'd be an insurance vote. Turns out I was being part of the thing I fucking hate - ties...

All criticism for the tie are valid, no arguments back from me. I'm definitely not a fan of 1:00 PM PDT phase change times lol...

Hamilton's "claim":
I'm going to be really honest - I think it's horseshit. It's soft as hell and not explicit when he was under threat, but was very publicly called out. Multiple people were lighting a fire under him to be explicit, yet he didn't - this screams of scum trying to draw out a CC from an undisciplined PR.

Then his last actions during the last hour were so off the chain that I feel even more reinforced on killing him if he's alive here: scums Vecna, votes me for some yin/yang shit (idk honestly?), says to trust bunny but doesn't even vote with Bunny - he goes to LoW.

If he's alive after this night processing - I'm voting him and going to put an end vote on it.

Bozo's last ditch effort to save his ass:
Bozo pulled a damo - the last ditch effort to save yourself or tie - but he does make last minute vote moves. I think HB's actions on D2 really spell a bad tale here: Softing to agree with Bunny (implying a scan) but then not voting with Bunny on Bozo leads me to

Would be willing to also revisit and hammer bozo if the group is more on the "let's not kill the awful PR claim guy when he's clearly lying"

Vecna's continued Nothingness
I don't feel like Vecna is doing anything of substance this game. His reads being almost exclusively town seems fake as hell and too confident for me to think it's authentic. There's a lot of commentary on liking/disliking posts, but none of it is a "read" with actual thought process to analyze.

I'd still love for him to die.

Changes from my D1 list:
Bunny's moved out of my scum-ish list and is back in town-lean. His emotion/reaction is very palpable and I felt his frustration during EOD. I don't feel scum!bunny could fake that.

Balki is a looming threat that I think will be rectified by D4 - if he's still alive and I'm around, I'll have enough content to solidify my stance on him better.

I still don't think sweet is power-wolfing or is anything but town here. Don't like how Bona is tunneling him for now...

[worcej]

HB lived - so here we are.

##vote Hamilton
##end

[sweetandcool]

That's a shock, right? We were all expecting Hamilton Brian to be gone? (At least that's how I think that works.)

No. Ham was clearly panicking.

The question is whether he was panicking as Town or Mafia. I mildly lean towards Mafia but really am not sure.

If he is Town, Mafia just expects us to tear him to shreds today.

[worcej]

That's a shock, right? We were all expecting Hamilton Brian to be gone? (At least that's how I think that works.)

No. Ham was clearly panicking.

The question is whether he was panicking as Town or Mafia. I mildly lean towards Mafia but really am not sure.

If he is Town, Mafia just expects us to tear him to shreds today.

A panicing town PR would not soft the claim and then not give deliberate facts to the town. I've never seen bullshit like what HB did on EOD2

[Hamilton Brian]

Out right now; will address when I get home. Did NOT work out like I thought or hoped it would.

[sweetandcool]

That's a shock, right? We were all expecting Hamilton Brian to be gone? (At least that's how I think that works.)

No. Ham was clearly panicking.

The question is whether he was panicking as Town or Mafia. I mildly lean towards Mafia but really am not sure.

If he is Town, Mafia just expects us to tear him to shreds today.

A panicing town PR would not soft the claim and then not give deliberate facts to the town. I've never seen bullshit like what HB did on EOD2

Oh you misunderstand. It's ridiculously obvious Ham was faking. I would have been stunned if Ham was the NK.

[Spartaculous]

That's a shock, right? We were all expecting Hamilton Brian to be gone? (At least that's how I think that works.)

No. Ham was clearly panicking.

The question is whether he was panicking as Town or Mafia. I mildly lean towards Mafia but really am not sure.

If he is Town, Mafia just expects us to tear him to shreds today.

Right; I spent a lot of time thinking about this overnight.

Ham was the obvious choice for nightkill after his claim. If he is Town, then Mafia can leave him alive and let us miskill him today.

I find everything that happened very suspicious, but I'm not going to jump on him quite yet until he's had a chance to explain himself one way or another.

[sweetandcool]

The biggest intrigue to me is not about Ham at all. Ham should live simply to force Mafia to NK him.

And if he is Mafia, then we resolve him later.

No, I am much more interested in thoughts on Bozo.

His voting EoD is extremely fascinating to me.

[sweetandcool]

If you read the thread with VCA, you can explain Bozo's rapidfire votes. For some reason he decided to puncuate his list of potential D1 bussers by voting them.

Then he sits back and watches while under some danger.

Understandably, the last second gut punch from damo and worcej caught him by surprise.

But what I don't understand is why he didn't vote LoW or sweetandcool sooner.

Presumably, since he townread LoW he didn't want to vote him. But why not his scumread sweetandcool?

If bozo is Mafia, it makes sense he wouldn't want to vote his teammate sweetandcool.

But since I know I am town, I can't understand this behavior.

It kind of makes sense that Bozo is town, but I don't understand why Town Bozo wouldn't vote his scumread.

The best answer I came up with is that Bozo actually wanted to tie with his Teammate LoW. That actually does make some sense. But then why the late vote on LoW? Why attempt it? Maybe he didn't even see damo and worcej flip to him, and so he tried a last second vote for credit catching Mafia LoW?

I'm not exactly convinced, but it's the best I could come up with.

[Spartaculous]

Anyways, here's my overnight reads list. (I wrote most of it assuming Ham was a goner.)

Leaning town:
sweetandcool: I do not think he started the Will wagon by bussing.
Jamiet99uk: Claiming the roleblock on night 1 gives credibility, I think. Also on Will's town-ish list (see my post on page 80).
kingofthepirates: One of the players I have interacted with the most outside of this game of Mafia (in 20Q, for example). He cast the vote Will into the lead on Day 1. I do not think his personality is such that he would have done that extreme of a bussing move. (Although, I feel confident that there was at least one busser, and quite possibly two.)
BunnyGo: Has provided lots of useful information. Would like to find out if the Hamilton Brian connection is genuine or not.

Neutral:
Balki: Seems to be decently helpful in his posts. Also has a nice mustache.

I have questions:
worcej: Why did worcej cause the tied vote? That seems like a bad idea.
damo666: The whole foodcoats and bees affair still leaves me somewhat mistrustful of him.
Hamilton Brian: Of course there are questions.

Suspected by others:
Vecna and bozotheclown: These two had large wagons. I never really quite figured out the cases for them, but I have to acknowledge that other people feel confident here.

Top three Mafia predictions:
Lord of Words: Jamie has made a plenty-convincing case here.
Bonatogether and rdrivera2005: I think that there was a busser on Will who joined the wagon pretty early on. (Maybe not both of them are Mafia, but I think at least one of them is.)

[Spartaculous]

Okay, let's see why Vecna and bozo had such large wagons. I'm going to see what reasons each one gave.

The case against Vecna:
Balki: Viewed Vecna as being distant from the game (and not trying to friend Balki).
sweetandcool: Various reasons including: sheeping brainbomb, Vecna reading him as Mafia (sweetandcool claims Vecna can usually correctly read him), Vecna choosing brainbomb to eliminate in night 1, thought Vecna tried to save Will.
worcej: Viewed Vecna as defending Will on Day 1 through vote movement.
damo666: damo kept going back and forth on Vecna. Initially had Vecna at the bottom of his Mafia reads, then put Vecna as Null, next reads list was "hmmm really unsure", but then ended up voting for Vecna. I didn't see much of a reason.
Hamilton Brian: Says it's not retaliation, but didn't really provide a deep reason other than Vecna suspecting him.

The case against bozo:
rdrivera2005: Based on comparison with past play. "I also suspect Bozo because his play today isn´t what I expect from town Bozo. Picking small things from Ghug, being obnoxius and not voting isn´t his town meta."
ghug: There was a *lot* of arguing between ghug and bozo, but most of it didn't feel that substantial - just bickering. Something more substantial: "Bozo is doing the thing he does as scum where he focuses on the possible instead of the probable."
BunnyGo: Man, there's a lot here: A lot of reads based on interactions with Will on Day 1. (Also, some of it is based on the assumption that I am Mafia, so...). Was very consistent throughout the entire Day 2. "Your [bozo's] ISO reads unlike the town bozo that scum!bunny is scared of. That bozo gets a bone, makes a case, and grinds scum down. This game’s bozo is just showing up. It’s like every post is an anchor post.:"
damo666: Started off with bozo as #5 Mafia read, then null, then "really unsure, definitely a scum possible although the D1 vote on Sparta is a spanner". Again didn't really provide too much reasoning to get to a vote on bozo.
worcej: I see no meaningful reasoning that was provided (either at the time of the vote or earlier on Day 2). This was the vote with a minute left that caused the tie.

[sweetandcool]

During the night I actually used the GT to organize my thoughts, which I normally kind of do in thread. This is what I came up with:

Scum:

Vecna
LoW
Bozo
rdr

Scum Lean:

Ham

Null:

Bunny
worcej
Balki

Town lean:

Damo

Town:

Pirate
Bona
ghug (RIP)
Jamiet* (only because of the RB)
----------------------------------------------------------

I am very confident that Vecna is scum. Vecna knows when I am town and yet despite being town he thinks I am Mafia. Not a compelling case and yet an accurate one.

LoW and Bozo make sense as the last two, but it's a good explanation for Bozo's EoD.

rdr is a bit of a wild card and doesn't feel like he fits with the team.

Null players I have essentially not thought of the entire game.

[sweetandcool]

Lastly, let the record show that while the tie was kind of worcej's fault, I don't really blame him and feel like it was more of an unfortunate accident. NAI

[sweetandcool]

##VOTE Vecna

[Lord of Words]

Being real, I'm dropping Bunny off my scum reads list, which probably needs to happen since there are three scum left and I need make space for Hamilton Brian, who I'm questioning now. Jamie and Sweet are that list too, but Ham feels like he could use some urgent action.

[sweetandcool]

Being real, I'm dropping Bunny off my scum reads list, which probably needs to happen since there are three scum left and I need make space for Hamilton Brian, who I'm questioning now. Jamie and Sweet are that list too, but Ham feels like he could use some urgent action.

Lol for a moment I thought you worked in the same office as Bunny. "I'm dropping Bunny off my scum reads list"

Like you were swinging by his desk to drop of the list.

Silly thought

[sweetandcool]

Oh wait, I missed Sparta in my list.

Scumlean.

[sweetandcool]

Wow, I thought the Night was boring, and now I'm even bored during the day.

Someone start ranting about Ham, Bozo, Vecna or even me.

[Lord of Words]

Being real, I'm dropping Bunny off my scum reads list, which probably needs to happen since there are three scum left and I need make space for Hamilton Brian, who I'm questioning now. Jamie and Sweet are that list too, but Ham feels like he could use some urgent action.

Lol for a moment I thought you worked in the same office as Bunny. "I'm dropping Bunny off my scum reads list"

Like you were swinging by his desk to drop of the list.

Silly thought

I probably could've phrased that better, lol.