Mafia 87: Madness in Mega-City One - GAME THREAD

[ghug]

My feeling that sweet and Balki are scummy teammates is deepening

Based

[sweetandcool]

The irony is that almost everyone who plays mafia here sucks at diplomacy (reigning legitimate World Cup champions notwithstanding).

That’s not true XD

Balki's good. rd is ok but very overrated. I was good like half a decade ago but my skills have probably atrophied. Vecna is solid FTF I think? Everyone else who I've played with or seen play sucks. Bunny idolizes swordsman or brother bored or whatever he calls himself now, which pretty much sums it up. Perhaps some of the new guard are good, but I'd wager not many.

I thought I was good, then I played several shitty games and lost all my points. So now I wonder, am I good, or am I total garbage? O_O

[ghug]

Strong town:
King
ghug

Weak town:
Dr. F
D&W
damo
Brain
Kak

Null:
Vecna
Food
Rd
Worcej

Null but should die:
ND

Angel but not Judge:

Judge but not Angel:

Scummy:
Balki
Sweet
Will
Snowy
Chaqa

[sweetandcool]

My feeling that sweet and Balki are scummy teammates is deepening

Based

It's annoying because I'm currently biased. But comments like damo's frustrate me because it's just a random declaration that Balki and I are together, with absolutely no thought justifying it. Meaningless

[ghug]

That’s not true XD

Balki's good. rd is ok but very overrated. I was good like half a decade ago but my skills have probably atrophied. Vecna is solid FTF I think? Everyone else who I've played with or seen play sucks. Bunny idolizes swordsman or brother bored or whatever he calls himself now, which pretty much sums it up. Perhaps some of the new guard are good, but I'd wager not many.

I thought I was good, then I played several shitty games and lost all my points. So now I wonder, am I good, or am I total garbage? O_O

That's usually a sign that you're not playing with players who are good enough to understand your genius, and you should aim higher.

[ghug]

My feeling that sweet and Balki are scummy teammates is deepening

Based

It's annoying because I'm currently biased. But comments like damo's frustrate me because it's just a random declaration that Balki and I are together, with absolutely no thought justifying it. Meaningless

Not biased, based.

[sweetandcool]

Balki's good. rd is ok but very overrated. I was good like half a decade ago but my skills have probably atrophied. Vecna is solid FTF I think? Everyone else who I've played with or seen play sucks. Bunny idolizes swordsman or brother bored or whatever he calls himself now, which pretty much sums it up. Perhaps some of the new guard are good, but I'd wager not many.

I thought I was good, then I played several shitty games and lost all my points. So now I wonder, am I good, or am I total garbage? O_O

That's usually a sign that you're not playing with players who are good enough to understand your genius, and you should aim higher.

Hah, I take into account the level I expect my opponents to be at, so that's no excuse. Though I forgot to take that into account in my last game, which is precisely why I bombed.

[sweetandcool]

Based

It's annoying because I'm currently biased. But comments like damo's frustrate me because it's just a random declaration that Balki and I are together, with absolutely no thought justifying it. Meaningless

Not biased, based.

Ja, I got that. I was just replying to damo through you.

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

Strong town:
King
ghug

Weak town:
Dr. F
D&W
damo
Brain
Kak

Null:
Vecna
Food
Rd
Worcej

Null but should die:
ND

Angel but not Judge:

Judge but not Angel:

Scummy:
Balki
Sweet
Will
Snowy
Chaqa

Why do u have king over urself

[ghug]

Strong town:
King
ghug

Weak town:
Dr. F
D&W
damo
Brain
Kak

Null:
Vecna
Food
Rd
Worcej

Null but should die:
ND

Angel but not Judge:

Judge but not Angel:

Scummy:
Balki
Sweet
Will
Snowy
Chaqa

Why do u have king over urself

Idk I was pretty stoned when I made the first one and this one I just copied and moved folks.

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

Strong town:
King
ghug

Weak town:
Dr. F
D&W
damo
Brain
Kak

Null:
Vecna
Food
Rd
Worcej

Null but should die:
ND

Angel but not Judge:

Judge but not Angel:

Scummy:
Balki
Sweet
Will
Snowy
Chaqa

Why do u have king over urself

Idk I was pretty stoned when I made the first one and this one I just copied and moved folks.

Aight, fair enough

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

Ugh maybe I should just say i was fuckin drunk every time i do something stupid in game

[sweetandcool]

Alright, got my tea and ready to analyze.

My focus will be damo, particularly D1 VCA. After that, I've been commissioned by brainbomb to look into Will. I've townread Will this game, but I will look closely since I really haven't done much ISO this game. If I don't find compelling evidence in either direction I'm not going to bother trying to convince others, but just know brainbomb that I will make a real effort.

As brainbomb pointed out, we are in D2 and there have been a few notable/semi-notable moments today. So I really quickly looked through damo's ISO for today already.

I feel like he has been pretty middling. Not particularly townie or scummy to me. I will mention I don't like two things he has done:

1. I don't like his latest comment about Balki and I being teammates. Mainly because I'd like to see an argument.

2. Early on his push at the players who weren't voting with their hypothetical scans. He's kind of right that not matching your behavior with your scan result makes you look fake, which isn't such a good thing. But he also assumes that "false" = Mafia which is not true at all.

As I write this I actually think this might be a bit townie because I feel like it invites the people that he was calling out to be offended to turn around and vote him, which is indeed what happened.

Huh, this is the second instance where he isn't making sense to me. I thought I understood damo reasonably well but this is the second time he's defied my expectations of him.
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Okay, purely based on D2 my verdict on damo would be: Confused Town? Maybe?

Onto the real deal, VCA.

[sweetandcool]

Also, lol, because of an earlier quote I am now voting Kak.

##VOTE damo

[sweetandcool]

I'm already tired and avoiding the work (:

Okay, I first did an ISO on damo, again.

I must confess that I got really tilted defending him D1. Mainly, I felt like damo was simply unengaged in an NAI sort of way and I was really annoyed by Balki pushing that wagon. Particularly because damo has been pushed hard D1 a lot recently.

And in fact, damo himself mentions that he wasn't really engaged.

So yeah, his early posts, which Balki was voting him for were lazy posts. But that really probably has nothing to do with alignment.

I think damo was about what I would expect D1. So that means Town points?

Even his softing, which was more like softing softing isn't really indicative of alignment. Maybe it wasn't even meant to be softing anyways, who knows.

[sweetandcool]

Also, random thought, but I think flightiness might actually be town indicative this game. Given the high number of Mafia, I think it's natural to become paranoid with many more people than normal.

At least, I am feeling burnt out from the sheer amount of paranoia I am feeling towards others. So I figure other Town players may feel similarly.

[ghug]

Ugh maybe I should just say i was fuckin drunk every time i do something stupid in game

I mean, people do shit they shouldn't when they're intoxicated. If you can find a scum motivation, run with it. You won't, though.

-drink ghug

[ghug]

Also, lol, because of an earlier quote I am now voting Kak.

##VOTE damo

Confused, town, maybe? Let me vote him!

[sweetandcool]

Also, lol, because of an earlier quote I am now voting Kak.

##VOTE damo

Confused, town, maybe? Let me vote him!

Calm down, I'm not done here. Yes, leaning towards voting elsewhere, but my jobs not done yet and I'm not going to change it until I'm ready.

[sweetandcool]

Holy shit, the majority of D1 were absolute trash wagons.

The first wagon was Balki, which died like a wet fart.

The next wagon that picked up was for ND. For obvious reasons, but kind of NAI/unserious ones.

The next wagon to come up was damo's. Balki, brain, then Food all vote him due to his unengaged posts. Not terrible reasons, but considering how incredibly NAI they really were, and how obviously unengaged damo was, not great reasons for it to be a serious wagon, which is what it turned out to be.

With 20 hours left rdr and Chaqa join the wagon for essentially no reason. rdr is salty for some reason and Chaqa wants to have some fun.

Now, with damo as the main wagon with 5(!) votes, Balki becomes the first sweetandcool voter. Technically there are a couple of 2 vote wagons, but none of them have energy behind them.

DrFidelis joins the damo wagon and ghug joins the sweetandcool wagon. damo votes sweetandcool, but I feel like this is a damo thing to do. So if he is Mafia he did a really good job being authentic.

Diplomacy comes online, sees the wagons and votes sweetandcool. Since I am convinced that Diplomacy is Mafia this is an important datapoint (if you disagree on Diplomacy's alignment feel free to ignore this bit).
+1 point for damo being Mafia.

worcej pops online to make an incredibly unconvicted vote on damo. His last post indicates that he didn't want sweetandcool to be the D1, which I believe and I think is authentic (NAI though). He stays on damo until the end, which is probably symptomatic of him not wanting sweetandcool and the fact that it is doubtful he had the time to read all that much to make an informed decision.

brainbomb switches from damo to sweetandcool, tieing the wagons at 5. I should note that at this point, that the only two wagons this entire phase have been damo and sweetandcool. While the reasons for voting damo at this point were as limp as a wet noodle, the reasons for voting sweetandcool were piling up in a serious and respectable way. The damo wagon really never made real sense, but the reasons for voting for sweetandcool were much more serious in nature. And it goes on to show that this was the case when sweetandcool goes up to 7 votes and damo sticks at 5.

Damn, this really actually looks like sweetandcool is Mafia. Because damo's wagon should have folded and sweetandcool's wagon probably should have been the only one at that point in the phase. The fact that damo's wagon didn't fold really makes it seem like some Mafia had to be propping it up. Did Town actually support that wagon??? It doesn't make sense.
+2 points for damo being Town, or at least one Mafia team propping up his wagon.

Next notable vote is Pirate's vote on sweetandcool which pushes the wagon to (7) votes. He also inadvertently encourages that Town absolutely murder me. Hmph, could be innocent but could be evil.

Okay, I don't think this is important but Vecna and snow briefly try to flash Balki, but it was never serious. Still interesting that it was attempted, even if it was posed in such an unserious manner.

After that Darg plops down a lazy vote on sweetandcool. I really thought that should be the end at that point. sweetandcool had several fairly convicted votes on them, along with lazy votes like this that didn't seem likely to move. Meanwhile damo has 5 votes but again they were always incredibly flimsy.

Then due to some shifting almost joke-like votes and some luck, and some seekers of flash wagons, and probably simply people who didn't want sweetandcool D1'ed, damo actually takes the lead and Pirate widens that gap by voting with the majority. So now it is damo (7) and sweetandcool (4) for fuck-all reasons. Okay, I've identified one reason my wagon fell apart, and that's the sheer amount of kind folk who didn't want to see me get D1'ed. Some of those people could be Mafia with other reasons than that, but still that seems to be a significant contributor.

It kind of reminds me of my last scumgame where I picked a fight with bunny. I felt like I was doing a good job and not really in any danger (true, I think), but then I ended up getting voted out because bunny's gravitas was greater than mine and at the end of the day a lot of people didn't want him out so while I wasn't particularly the person that people most suspected, I inadvertently put myself in the crosshairs of a counter wagon.

Okay, then flash wagon attempts keep coming up and the newest one is ghug flashing Balki. It doesn't gain traction.

The rest was actually covered in my previous post.
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Conclusion:

Okay, this kind of turned into another summary of the day, except I did literally the entire D1.

This happened because I quickly realized one important thing. I also had some other takeaways of this analysis, so I'm just going to make a numbered list with the important thing on top.

1. The only serious wagons of the day were damo and sweetandcool, and then of course Ham got flashed. There were lots of flash attempts and the flash on Ham was successful, for reasons previously covered. The only other notable wagon was Balki, simply because multiple times it was attempted.

But here is the important thing: The damo wagon was shit from beginning to end. All of the wagons were pretty shit, except possibly the sweetandcool wagon.

2. Because damo's wagon was so shitty, it had to be Mafia supported. It's still possible he is Mafia, but there is like no reason we should really be suspecting that right now.

3. sweetandcool's wagon formed for reasonable reasons (actually, I'm kind of assuming that is the case and have ran out of time to look closely at the actual thread to see how real those reasons were. But I recall feeling pretty doomed so they must have been valid reasons). The fact that damo's wagon was so shit and sweetandcool's wagon was not, supports the theory that sweetandcool is Mafia and his team tried to form all those flash wagons in order to save him.

4. But I know sweetandcool's alignment is Town. So what does this mean? Like I said previously, damo isn't absolved, but I think likely Town and I'm going to run with the theory that damo is Town. This means that scum was completely unpressured and just did what they felt like. Perhaps each team wanted to test sweetandcool, damo, other random flashes to see which ones got a reaction that would help them find the other scumteam.
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Postscript: If my wagon takes off after this I'm going to have to spend my time on defense. Otherwise, I think there is not too much more to look at with general VCA. I think it's better for me to look at suspects and then ISO and look at their Votes and see what I come up with.

I'm really tired and that ended up getting big and I may have forgotten to mention conclusions I came to, so feel free to ask questions.