Mafia 87: Madness in Mega-City One - GAME THREAD

[brainbomb]

im asking a really simple question about motivations of scum players and you refused to acknowledge a question. I asked it twice. it isnt about scan results. its about coordinated scan choices. which 5 people chose me. im asking if you think that scum would coordinate to all scan the same person to distance, and claim that they would never all choose the same person.

I don't really have an opinion on that. I wouldn't rule out scum players as being teamed because they scanned the same target. I wouldn't expect them to chose the same target either. I have no expectations at all about what choices scum players might make for their hypothetical scans.

I can also see reasons why a player might choose you as a scan target (whether they are a Cop or not) because I chose you as my scan target.

so.. you do have an opion then

[sweetandcool]

im asking a really simple question about motivations of scum players and you refused to acknowledge a question. I asked it twice. it isnt about scan results. its about coordinated scan choices. which 5 people chose me. im asking if you think that scum would coordinate to all scan the same person to distance, and claim that they would never all choose the same person.

I agree that the unlikeliness of everybody scanning you is notable. I'm not sure what to make of it.

Oh! I know. So it's super bizarre, right? I know someone who would probably revel in it as a Mafia player.

Brainbomb. It's brainbomb. He told his entire team to scan him, then later he would point out how bizarre it is, and how it must be an entire team coordinating.

[Balki Bartokomous]

I think the only part you didn't get quite right is that I think Darg moving off of me is the suspicion part and him protecting teammate damo is the speculation part.

It's possible my post doesn't make that clear, I would have to look and see. But that is my current stance on Darg.

It's a very unconvincing case. It does not remotely seem like something that would be alignment indicative, especially from your perspective. You, theoretically, know you are Town, so you are ascribing Scum motivation to moving a vote off of a "Town" wagon. And to make it worse, several players did that -- voted you and then moved off, and you don't seem to be thinking about their movements the same way. (I am assuming that. If you've said the same things about other people in this category, please correct me).

I'm not sure why you felt so frustrated that I asked you to repeat your reasons for suspecting Darg. It doesn't seem like it takes long to say them. There is very little to it.

[Balki Bartokomous]

im asking a really simple question about motivations of scum players and you refused to acknowledge a question. I asked it twice. it isnt about scan results. its about coordinated scan choices. which 5 people chose me. im asking if you think that scum would coordinate to all scan the same person to distance, and claim that they would never all choose the same person.

I don't really have an opinion on that. I wouldn't rule out scum players as being teamed because they scanned the same target. I wouldn't expect them to chose the same target either. I have no expectations at all about what choices scum players might make for their hypothetical scans.

I can also see reasons why a player might choose you as a scan target (whether they are a Cop or not) because I chose you as my scan target.

so.. you do have an opion then

My answer is: that's not a question I am interested in, and I am not going ascribe any significance to scan choices right now.

[sweetandcool]

I think the only part you didn't get quite right is that I think Darg moving off of me is the suspicion part and him protecting teammate damo is the speculation part.

It's possible my post doesn't make that clear, I would have to look and see. But that is my current stance on Darg.

It's a very unconvincing case. It does not remotely seem like something that would be alignment indicative, especially from your perspective. You, theoretically, know you are Town, so you are ascribing Scum motivation to moving a vote off of a "Town" wagon. And to make it worse, several players did that -- voted you and then moved off, and you don't seem to be thinking about their movements the same way. (I am assuming that. If you've said the same things about other people in this category, please correct me).

I'm not sure why you felt so frustrated that I asked you to repeat your reasons for suspecting Darg. It doesn't seem like it takes long to say them. There is very little to it.

These are very Darg specific suspicions. Which I know I have made clear. If another player did the exact same thing I wouldn't read them the same way. Okay, really I hope you are Mafia because you are so frustrating.

[brainbomb]

thats a very lawyerish answer

[Balki Bartokomous]

I feel like a big part of this game is to try to explain why you suspect a certain thing. To show your work. That helps other people decide whether to agree or disagree, and it helps people to sort you.

All this talk of vibes and "that's just what I think," etc., makes it harder to sort the good guys from the bad guys.

[Balki Bartokomous]

thats a very lawyerish answer

Lawyers are the worst.

[Balki Bartokomous]

thats a very lawyerish answer

Lawyers are the worst.

Also -- my ther answer was just to ignore you! Which one do you list best?

[damo666]

would scumteams coordinate their fake scans?

I would think so but I doubt they'd all pretend to target the same pserson.

[Balki Bartokomous]

thats a very lawyerish answer

Lawyers are the worst.

Also -- my ther answer was just to ignore you! Which one do you list best?

Should say: "My other answer was just to ignore you. Which one do you like best?"

[brainbomb]

Okay im out of my meeting.

When you came up with this plan, you had obviously read the setup and saw the utility in this idea, maybe even before the game itself?

Yes?

And while in the planning of it, and the thought behind it, there was never any consideration of what two mafia teams might decide to plan to do while in their chats?
on N1 you posted near end of night for mafia teams to go ahead and start posting their scan choices, and im assuming that was you just being funny. But from a weird outlier perspective could that be you actually trying to Gestapo town players into hesitation on actually doing their plans? what was the thought behind the whole "okay mafia its your turn now"?

And then, for the data we have now. we have two outlier control groups. I was told by ghug not to compile data, but I did anyway because I think scum wouldve had to decide on both teams what they were gonna choose.

If they choose idea 1, its everyone just do some random scan on some random player and look like they arent on the same team.

The problem with idea 1 for more developed players is that they see greater distancing from one another in acting in unity. Its reverse logic, but its actually really smart. the dumber the strategy seems, and the more identical it looks, the more simpletons think such a thing is just not ever a thing.

looking at the 5 in control group 1
we have
vecna ELITE tier mafia player
ghug ELITE tier mafia player
damo ELITE multi time MVP mafia player
sweet more or less not lucky mafia player
Balki EPIC tier mafia player

So, control group A, having 3 or 4 mafia in it, is not impossible, because control group 1 is NEVER going to just do whatever and have no plan. the entire plan is created by CONTROL group A.

So who is town in that group? if this is judges I think sweet and damo might both be town actually.

If its all Angels, it could actually be the entire angel team in there and 1 outlier. No fucking idea which of you it is.


Okay enough about that group lets talk about outlier group 2

the people who didnt post a scan at all. And let me talk about why its very unlikely that a scumteam en masse would do a no post of any scan together.

the 4 people are
ND
DemonRHK
Fidelis
Snowy801

FOr one thing none of these people feel like a team. They might all be scummy other than snowy for various reasons but this seems more like each one has a reason why they didnt do the plan

Snowy hated the plan and unless im mistaken never outed a result

ND is just his own thing and doesnt cooperate no matter what and probably would also refuse to even comply if his own team wanted a plan

Fidelis was present at end of day and never posted and just disappeared

DemonRHK could have an excuse of just not realizing this was a plan, I dont have an explanation for this.


But, looking at control group 2. it feels like a much worse strategy than just being random or working in unison. it seems alot more deliberately uncooperative than scum would want to be

[Chaqa]

-- snipped --

I'm not sure I quite understand what you're getting at here. I follow the post, but do you have any conclusions to draw?

[sweetandcool]

Chaqa, do you remember why you voted damo with 18 minutes to go? I kind of think it had to do with saving me, but not sure.

@brainbomb, I appreciate your last post and will think it.

[Chaqa]

Chaqa, do you remember why you voted damo with 18 minutes to go? I kind of think it had to do with saving me, but not sure.

@brainbomb, I appreciate your last post and will think it.

I was voting Damo well before that, briefly tried (unsuccessfully) to flash Hamilton, and then moved back to Damo. I didn't super strongly scumread Damo, to be fair, but I did townread you.

[brainbomb]

Sweet scan = bb
Ghug scan = bb
Balki scan = bb
Venca scan = bb
Damo scan = bb

Foodcoats scan = vecna
Worcej scan = snowy
King of pirates = rdr
Will scans = ghug
Chaqa scans ghug ?
Rdr scans damo
d&w on kak
Kak scans rd
Bb scans ND

Did not partake
Fidelis
ND
Snowy
rhk


I have rescinded the results so you can just focus only on the choices made by each person. the one I was not sure of was chaqa who claimed a true and based on reread it looks like it was on ghug?

[sweetandcool]

Still working on my big post. But don't get excited, it has turned into a horribly goopy thing that is probably only going to be helpful for me.

I am of the opinion that flipping damo (or me) is the best course of action. I think it will help Town make sense of what happened D1.

So I would like to request we consolidate on one of those wagons.

[damo666]

Sweet scan = bb
Ghug scan = bb
Balki scan = bb
Venca scan = bb
Damo scan = bb

Foodcoats scan = vecna
Worcej scan = snowy
King of pirates = rdr
Will scans = ghug
Chaqa scans ghug ?
Rdr scans damo
d&w on kak
Kak scans rd
Bb scans ND

Did not partake
Fidelis
ND
Snowy
rhk


I have rescinded the results so you can just focus only on the choices made by each person. the one I was not sure of was chaqa who claimed a true and based on reread it looks like it was on ghug?

I thought ghug scanned Kak?

[brainbomb]

Lame.

TRUE

Compiling results is anti-town, just make sure they're out and clear (brain...) for now.

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

Sweet scan = bb
Ghug scan = bb
Balki scan = bb
Venca scan = bb
Damo scan = bb

Foodcoats scan = vecna
Worcej scan = snowy
King of pirates = rdr
Will scans = ghug
Chaqa scans ghug ?
Rdr scans damo
d&w on kak
Kak scans rd
Bb scans ND

Did not partake
Fidelis
ND
Snowy
rhk


I have rescinded the results so you can just focus only on the choices made by each person. the one I was not sure of was chaqa who claimed a true and based on reread it looks like it was on ghug?

If is makes you feel any better I chose randomly to remove any bias I had

I wish others would’ve done the same to avoid this conversation we are having now