Mafia 87: Madness in Mega-City One - GAME THREAD

[brainbomb]

finally off work. after 12 hour fucking shift. jesus shoot me please

You'll have to wait until tomorrow, unfortunately

For what?

[Balki Bartokomous]

finally off work. after 12 hour fucking shift. jesus shoot me please

You'll have to wait until tomorrow, unfortunately

For what?

For Jesus to shoot you.

[brainbomb]

If the Son of God wants to shoot me he would have to verify he existed in Roman Records first

[Balki Bartokomous]

If the Son of God wants to shoot me he would have to verify he existed in Roman Records first

Maybe for Snowy to Jesus Shoot you?

[brainbomb]

If the Son of God wants to shoot me he would have to verify he existed in Roman Records first

Maybe for Snowy to Jesus Shoot you?

I was not aware Snowy desired me to be shot tomorrow by the Son of God.

[snowy801]

I do think it was bizarre how confident sweet was that you were an angel that he wanted to not kill you

But on reflection I struggle to find that to be judge motivated, and it would be a truly deranged train of thought coming from an angel.

Still chewing on it.

Do agree on the MMA thing, mentioned it a few times. I'm more afraid that this paranoia will stump the growth of natural EoD wagons than anything

[snowy801]

Really should look deeper into the Brian flash but I just don't have the energy for it (have to sleep early to wake up for LCK at 4am today)

Would really appreciate it if someone skimmed an overview

[brainbomb]

i will do my usual deep anal later this evening

[sweetandcool]

I don't know. I feel like we butt heads. Now we're having a discussion. Just felt good. That's all.

A strange sentiment. I feel as though I largely avoided conflict with you on day 1 as I believed there was sufficient ramming happening between you and sweet.

Incidentally, do you happen to have any discussion points on topic not involving scan claims?

Things in my head right now:

- I'd like ghug to explain the intention behind his late-day Balki vote
- I'm bummed that the HamiltonBrian flip feels quite limited in terms of how much info it gives us right now.
- I wish very much I could see a Damo or Sweet flip, especially a Sweet flip.
- I think people are putting too much credence in trying to avoid powering up the Mean Machine. I think that the Angels would be taking a big risk even using the Mean Machine kill at all, as it could very easily out Mean Machine as scum down the road. And that kill isn't even the end of the world, as it gives us another flip and it could be a Judge flip.
- I find it super odd how Sweet and JustaGuy are so certain in their reads and worldviews (other people fall into that category too, but those guys stand out to me). Odd isn't so AI to me in this instance, as townies do that, but I guess these folks need to be wrong a few more times in order to appreciate that they shouldn't be so confident, especially this early.

I don't know why you assume I am so confident.

In proportion to the fact it was D1, I suppose I was confident. But obviously being D1 I am not confident.

[snowy801]

A strange sentiment. I feel as though I largely avoided conflict with you on day 1 as I believed there was sufficient ramming happening between you and sweet.

Incidentally, do you happen to have any discussion points on topic not involving scan claims?

Things in my head right now:

- I'd like ghug to explain the intention behind his late-day Balki vote
- I'm bummed that the HamiltonBrian flip feels quite limited in terms of how much info it gives us right now.
- I wish very much I could see a Damo or Sweet flip, especially a Sweet flip.
- I think people are putting too much credence in trying to avoid powering up the Mean Machine. I think that the Angels would be taking a big risk even using the Mean Machine kill at all, as it could very easily out Mean Machine as scum down the road. And that kill isn't even the end of the world, as it gives us another flip and it could be a Judge flip.
- I find it super odd how Sweet and JustaGuy are so certain in their reads and worldviews (other people fall into that category too, but those guys stand out to me). Odd isn't so AI to me in this instance, as townies do that, but I guess these folks need to be wrong a few more times in order to appreciate that they shouldn't be so confident, especially this early.

I don't know why you assume I am so confident.

In proportion to the fact it was D1, I suppose I was confident. But obviously being D1 I am not confident.

I assume that he assumes that you were confident because you sounded very confident

[Balki Bartokomous]

I do think it was bizarre how confident sweet was that you were an angel that he wanted to not kill you

But on reflection I struggle to find that to be judge motivated, and it would be a truly deranged train of thought coming from an angel.

Still chewing on it.

Do agree on the MMA thing, mentioned it a few times. I'm more afraid that this paranoia will stump the growth of natural EoD wagons than anything

Yeah, if you look at the progression of posts, it felt to me like Sweet never actually was confident I was Angel, he just kind of went with the flow of discussion, and then felt like he got himself locked in.

Will suggests that I was an Angel and Sweet responded with a hypothetical:

If that's true, shouldn't we keep him in game? If Angel Balki is doing a fabulous job sussing out the Judge team, shouldn't we keep him around? I think we make a mental note about Balki and move on to a better D1 vote.

Since Balki is unlikely to be a Judge, I think he is okay to leave around.

Sweet then begins to say over and over that he thinks I am Angel, and he is happy to leave me around for now (kind of a non-confrontational, leave that target for later move I expect from Scum.

Later on, Sweet's idea that we not try to daykill an Angel was debunked, so then Sweet said this:

Yeah? But Judges are way more, given they can kill like mad and Angels can't. Angels are okay to kill too, obviously. I am okay DK Balki of we can't find someone better.

So...I think that Sweet kind of backed into the "Balki is Angel" idea based on some mechanical thing [wrongly] suggesting that I am not Judge. And then backed into the stance that he would be happy to daykill me because it's okay to kill an Angel too.

In all of this, he lost track of the fact that his reason of suspecting me as Angel was simply that he didn't think I was Judge -- a super backwards and non-Town perspective if there ever was one.

That's my sense of that train of thought.

[ghug]

@ghug, was your late Balki vote a sincere effort to flashwagon me or a reaction test?

Yes

[snowy801]

In all of this, he lost track of the fact that his reason of suspecting me as Angel was simply that he didn't think I was Judge -- a super backwards and non-Town perspective if there ever was one.

Yes, but if you consider it a bit deeper

If he is non-town then he is either judge or angel by necessity
If he is judge it would be bizarre for him... actually as I'm writing this I'm seeing an angle of thought progression here, but I originally thought it would be strange for him to declare you not-judge then decide not to kill you
If angel, I certainly don't think even as a twisted misstep of scum slips that kind of progression can come forth

[brainbomb]

I thought the Balki wagon was some sort of bear trap type of thing

[Balki Bartokomous]

In all of this, he lost track of the fact that his reason of suspecting me as Angel was simply that he didn't think I was Judge -- a super backwards and non-Town perspective if there ever was one.

Yes, but if you consider it a bit deeper

If he is non-town then he is either judge or angel by necessity
If he is judge it would be bizarre for him... actually as I'm writing this I'm seeing an angle of thought progression here, but I originally thought it would be strange for him to declare you not-judge then decide not to kill you
If angel, I certainly don't think even as a twisted misstep of scum slips that kind of progression can come forth

Right. In my read, none of it is sincere. He is not sharing a sincere belief about me not being Angel or not being Judge. He is just trying to be involved in the discussion and faking it. It was actually Will who said I was an Angel, and then Sweet backed into that idea by saying "oh if he's Angel, let's keep him around." I can see all of that coming from a manufactured process. It's not Scum sincerely sharing a thought about what faction they think I am in.

[brainbomb]

Town
Snowy
Balki
Food
Pirate

And adjusting for how eod went
Damo

[Balki Bartokomous]

@ghug, was your late Balki vote a sincere effort to flashwagon me or a reaction test?

Yes

I gotta run. Can you answer?

Check a box:
☐ Sincere
☐ Reaction test

[sweetandcool]

In all of this, he lost track of the fact that his reason of suspecting me as Angel was simply that he didn't think I was Judge -- a super backwards and non-Town perspective if there ever was one.

Yes, but if you consider it a bit deeper

If he is non-town then he is either judge or angel by necessity
If he is judge it would be bizarre for him... actually as I'm writing this I'm seeing an angle of thought progression here, but I originally thought it would be strange for him to declare you not-judge then decide not to kill you
If angel, I certainly don't think even as a twisted misstep of scum slips that kind of progression can come forth

Right. In my read, none of it is sincere. He is not sharing a sincere belief about me not being Angel or not being Judge. He is just trying to be involved in the discussion and faking it. It was actually Will who said I was an Angel, and then Sweet backed into that idea by saying "oh if he's Angel, let's keep him around." I can see all of that coming from a manufactured process. It's not Scum sincerely sharing a thought about what faction they think I am in.

You're incorrect about me. And I was definitely the one suggesting you were Angel first. And I suggested it because I thought you were Mafia and not Judge. By process of elimination that would make you Angel.

You don't have to, because I don't want to make busy work for you, but either ask around or look at my past games. I'm pretty sure I usually come across as confident.

In reality, I learned long ago that D1 is an absolute crapshoot, so practically nothing is confident given there is no VCA or anything other than vibes I can go on.

And since it should be obvious to just about everyone that D1 is a crapshoot, I shouldn't have to preface every single thing I say with "I'm not confident, but...."

[sweetandcool]

Though I am as confident as possible about brainbomb. I can't imagine his play coming from Town brainbomb.

[ghug]

I haven't really thought too deep into it, as it seems to work on surface
I just don't like playing this way

Okay, sorry you don't like it.

So, are you going to participate?

Also, do you want the Town faction to win this game, or some other faction?

Balki, no need to bully.

I thought you said as long as a decent amount of people follow it, it is good.

Dip is clearly just doing his assigned task, which is to cause as much mech confusion as possible. Your plan is clearly sufficient and the only harmful thing that can be done is to muddy the waters over it, which is exactly what Dip is doing his best to do.

Mechanically harmful play is just as NAI as mechanically optimal play.