Mafia 87: Madness in Mega-City One - GAME THREAD

[brainbomb]

It is abnormally lazy of sweet and will to both try to use mech and out of game stuff to clear or condemn people too. Especially that is a trait of wills scum game where he relentlessly tries to fake townslips.

The main tell I am referring too here is repeated regurgitation of when this game started by Will, despite having quoted the opening post which refutes his and sweets arguments categorically.

and additionally this strange notion that people were being coached in pregame when there is evidence to suggest players may not have even been in those pregame chats, and for that matter may still not even be in them as of now.

So many logic leaps and spurrious ideas being barfed into the thread, and everything we think its been put to rest, one of them brings it back up as if there is some reason they supposedly distrust one another for it.

[brainbomb]

So, I am still unable to rule out that will and sweet are mafia together on one of the two teams.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Slight Town!ND points because, if he has been assigned to a small, known team here, would he do this to his team?

Mayyyyybe. Just seems like its the kind of obnoxious that comes from someone on a less concrete roster.

[ghug]

Also: anyone particularly sus? you all can make up your own opinions on this, but I hope my naivety is enough to clear me :).

You.

Please discuss.

I don’t think I’ve done anything particularly indicative of being anything other than town. I don’t know anyone’s tells or past behaviors since this is my first game (I’m kinda here just to learn the ropes and have some fun). At the moment, im mainly focused on watching others discuss to try and figure out people’s usual mannerisms. For those suggesting I may be coached: if I were, there is no way I would be this passive and flipping my vote around so often. Logically, those coaching me would probably urge for a strong confident front to support their agenda. I hope my constant voting and unvoting is enough to show my lack of an agenda, and this lack of coaching, and thus my role as town.

This feels like town.

[snowy801]

Okay, I can grok that as a general tendency, but can you give some more specific thought to the plan I proposed in this format? My feeling is that the multi-cop set-up here is uniquely suited for this particular plan because we're not really going to be able to use cop reveals very well until the cop flips. So cops are likely going to want to breadcrumb their results so that we have their info to use after they flip. By forcing everyone to provide hypo results, we allow our Cops to put that info in the thread without risk of laying breadcrumbs that can lead back to them. Also, because of all the Cop distortions, the bad guys are not going to be able to use all of the hypo posts to figure out who is a real cop and who is not a real cop.

So, I just think this plan requires more thought than "I don't like doing stuff with mechanics." I am not proposing that we use the hypo scan plan as the sole way of playing the game. We need to talk to each other and sort wolves from town. Adding a hypo scan is not a substitute for playing the game, it's just a useful way of ensuring the cop information is here in the thread for us when it becomes more useful.

Remind me to do this tomorrow and I shall (probably) elaborate

* Balki reminds Snowy *

Just to be clear I said that because I didn't really have time for a long post or introspection
But I didn't really have a precise reason at the time I figured it'd be something I can come up with some reasons for I mostly don't like it
Since I promised I will do said elaboration probably tonight but y'know, there's no pre-existing strategy involved

[ghug]

I think the main drawbacks is not helping scum to identify copa but help Angel gang to identify not cops. They are the only one's that can mess with results so they know if result is true or false or twisted. So they can identify who are not cops.
But considering the Judges will be also in this group not sure if it's enough of a reason to not going with this plan.

I think that you are overstating the info that Angels will get from this. There are so many different kinds of cops that seeing a fake result really won't reveal a whole lot. Let's say you are in the Angel gang, and I put down a hypo cop scan on you that says TRUE. That could mean any of the following:

I am Addictive Cop revealing an Innocent scan
I am Macho Cop revealing an Innocent scan
I am Naive Cop revealing an Innocent scan
I am Methodical Cop revealing an Innocent scan
I am Parity Cop revealing a Same scan
I am Vanilla Cop revealing a Vanilla scan
I am SJS Cop revealing a Cop/Judge scan
I am Psychic Cop revealing a Dark scan
I am faking this scan

Even with your knowledge of the game state, you aren't going to be able to tell if I am a real cop or not. And nobody is going to really know what my scan means until I flip (obviously it means nothing if I flip not cop, and it means something very specific when I flip a particular kind of cop).

It just occurred to me that parity cop should report a random result night one rather than FALSE, since the former can be discounted later based on their role and the latter would help narrow them down.

[brainbomb]

Slight Town!ND points because, if he has been assigned to a small, known team here, would he do this to his team?

Mayyyyybe. Just seems like its the kind of obnoxious that comes from someone on a less concrete roster.

there was a game where ND used a gimmick as mafia of insulting every person even his own teammates, and referred to everyone in the game as losers and degenerates. he also died day 1 doing it.

[Balki Bartokomous]

It is abnormally lazy of sweet and will to both try to use mech and out of game stuff to clear or condemn people too. Especially that is a trait of wills scum game where he relentlessly tries to fake townslips.

The main tell I am referring too here is repeated regurgitation of when this game started by Will, despite having quoted the opening post which refutes his and sweets arguments categorically.

and additionally this strange notion that people were being coached in pregame when there is evidence to suggest players may not have even been in those pregame chats, and for that matter may still not even be in them as of now.

So many logic leaps and spurrious ideas being barfed into the thread, and everything we think its been put to rest, one of them brings it back up as if there is some reason they supposedly distrust one another for it.

This post sounds valid to me, especially with regard to Will. Can anyone confirm this description of the Scum!Will meta?

[Balki Bartokomous]

Slight Town!ND points because, if he has been assigned to a small, known team here, would he do this to his team?

Mayyyyybe. Just seems like its the kind of obnoxious that comes from someone on a less concrete roster.

there was a game where ND used a gimmick as mafia of insulting every person even his own teammates, and referred to everyone in the game as losers and degenerates. he also died day 1 doing it.

Well rats. Okay, NAI.

[Balki Bartokomous]

I think the main drawbacks is not helping scum to identify copa but help Angel gang to identify not cops. They are the only one's that can mess with results so they know if result is true or false or twisted. So they can identify who are not cops.
But considering the Judges will be also in this group not sure if it's enough of a reason to not going with this plan.

I think that you are overstating the info that Angels will get from this. There are so many different kinds of cops that seeing a fake result really won't reveal a whole lot. Let's say you are in the Angel gang, and I put down a hypo cop scan on you that says TRUE. That could mean any of the following:

I am Addictive Cop revealing an Innocent scan
I am Macho Cop revealing an Innocent scan
I am Naive Cop revealing an Innocent scan
I am Methodical Cop revealing an Innocent scan
I am Parity Cop revealing a Same scan
I am Vanilla Cop revealing a Vanilla scan
I am SJS Cop revealing a Cop/Judge scan
I am Psychic Cop revealing a Dark scan
I am faking this scan

Even with your knowledge of the game state, you aren't going to be able to tell if I am a real cop or not. And nobody is going to really know what my scan means until I flip (obviously it means nothing if I flip not cop, and it means something very specific when I flip a particular kind of cop).

It just occurred to me that parity cop should report a random result night one rather than FALSE, since the former can be discounted later based on their role and the latter would help narrow them down.

Agree.

[brainbomb]

I think what ND is doing without all the fluffy obnoxious flavour is actually trying to get answers. so he is probably town

[foodcoats]

I could see wagons being larger than usual due to mafia hardsiding with town vs anyone who isnt on their team. Because the two teams are going to prefer anyone dying but their own guy. So, you might have a point there Hammy. however I dont think there would be more wagon movement than usual, especially if town takes the suggestion to just stay on their gut reads.

So, that whole thought feels a little muddy.

I saw your other note about the scum teams bussing less in this setup. I am not convinced. Maybe they will try harder to avoid getting their team killed (less Will “I know sweet’s scumtell” maneuvers) but they will still vote for each other and mix it up.

[snowy801]

#GM CALL(?)

http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g=87&part=Day%201&user=Diplomacy&Warfare

Dip&War's peterbot iso doesn't work, possibly due to the ampersand?

[Balki Bartokomous]

Remind me to do this tomorrow and I shall (probably) elaborate

* Balki reminds Snowy *

Just to be clear I said that because I didn't really have time for a long post or introspection
But I didn't really have a precise reason at the time I figured it'd be something I can come up with some reasons for I mostly don't like it
Since I promised I will do said elaboration probably tonight but y'know, there's no pre-existing strategy involved

In ominous voice with piercing glare:

IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE IT IN NINE HOURS...YOU GET ANOTHER GIF!

[snowy801]

why nine

[brainbomb]

I could see wagons being larger than usual due to mafia hardsiding with town vs anyone who isnt on their team. Because the two teams are going to prefer anyone dying but their own guy. So, you might have a point there Hammy. however I dont think there would be more wagon movement than usual, especially if town takes the suggestion to just stay on their gut reads.

So, that whole thought feels a little muddy.

I saw your other note about the scum teams bussing less in this setup. I am not convinced. Maybe they will try harder to avoid getting their team killed (less Will “I know sweet’s scumtell” maneuvers) but they will still vote for each other and mix it up.

This is fine to say in principle but what are some examples youve seen so far that looked like bussing for the sake of just bussing so far? Being able to distinguish between mafia on team A voting team B, and it being misread as a bus move would be really hard to do. If theyre both scummy then the bussing part of it is pretty meaningless. Also, sometimes before considering flips, and actually seeing them, bussing is easier to spot before than it is after. Folks tend to get lost once they have to start hunting with a bias in mind

[foodcoats]

##VOTE Balki, time to party

Hmmm Balki how does it feel to be a judge/angel

##VOTE BALKI

Dang he got caught D1 only an hour in lmao

Balki kinda sus ngl... perhaps he is imposter? Once we eject him, perhaps we may find out? Unless Balki wishes to perform a Visual Task like med scan before the time runs out, I'm afraid I will have to

##VOTE BALKI

##VOTE Balki

I have a feeling this game is going to be incredibly easy for town.

MEAN MACHINE ANGEL
Each night, Mean Machine Angel's power is dependent on the number of votes that were on him at the end of the day which has just taken place:

- If there were 0 votes on him at EoD, he is entirely calm, has no night action, and will scan as if he is a Goon.
- If there were 1 or 2 votes on him at EoD, he may carry out a Night Kill.
- If there were 3 votes on him at EoD, he's Angry, and may carry out a Night Kill which cannot be prevented by any means.
- If there were 4 or more votes on him at EoD, he's in a Frenzy, he may carry out a Night Kill which cannot be prevented by any means, and he is invulnerable to any killing actions that night (including being Ignited, but he is not immune from being Primed).

Balki is first to hit 4 votes, and the wagon completely evaporated.

We may have our first candidate for being the mean machine

This implies Balki is not only the mean machine but also that some number of his voters are on his scum. Definitely an interesting possibility…

Would Angel!Balki have scum motivation for cop hypoing? I am too braindead from travel to figure it out at the moment.

[brainbomb]

yea read the role. it was a fun find until it wasnt

[foodcoats]

the fewer the wagons there are at EOD the less likely it is we have to deal with mean machine tonight. getting everyone to agree on this is gonna be pretty hard. but people choosing no kill in this situation would seem to be promoting a somewhat pro town strategy even if they were to end the day that way.

so you choose between spreading a wide range of options at end of day for voters, and promoting variety, but it risks adding an extra nk to the equation.

or you just have everyone consolidate on like two big ass wagons and try not to let this extra kp into the mix.

does anyone think this level of cooperation is realistic or could be agreed on?

Now that you have me thinking about it, the mean machine is incentivized to act scummy and get votes. I don’t know what to do with that exactly right now. But it is neat.

[Balki Bartokomous]

This implies Balki is not only the mean machine but also that some number of his voters are on his scum. Definitely an interesting possibility…

Would Angel!Balki have scum motivation for cop hypoing? I am too braindead from travel to figure it out at the moment.

Is it an interesting possibility?

Can you really spell that possibility out please? What's the theory? Which of my Day 1 early voters appear most likely to be on my Angel team? Explain the strategy that this Angel team has used so far. Explain whether you think this is the kind of suggestion that is likely to be true and should be validated or is likely to be false and should be ignored or refuted.