Mafia 86: Accidents Happen... - Game Thread

[Frogsterking]

This is only Frogsterking's second game here, and M85 ended early. I think you and ghug could be reading him correctly.

This is a good summary of the paranoia surrounding my slot. Very "fear of the unknown" and "fear of the unexpected" with observations then looked for to justify that line of thinking. In a different game I could see it being a more influential factor, in this game you can see that I am unlikely to be scum based on D1. Ghug's read on me requires both that I have "cleanest busser" in my scum range and that I would choose to put my team into potential autoloss territory when I apparently have the scum range to do...anything else. Bunny's interpretation of how my behavior can be scum motivated is that I am "freezing up and panicking." Darg's interpretation of how my behavior can be scum motivated is the opposite. Darg believes I am cool as a cucumber and any humor for example is an attempt to "win them over." This seems intrinsically unlikely to be true as again, if I were so calculating and my scum range were so omnipresent, how is it efficient to go from "intensity" to "light humor" in a way that both requires a more extensive dramatic range but also causes players to be more suspicious of me? Why not just say nothing at all? Or use this presumably omnipotent range to say something banal or innocuous?

Clearly the mark of a truly skilled scum player, actor and master manipulator is to kill their godfather D1 and then draw suspicion in a way that requires wasting a lot of energy on posts that are unlikely to get me town read or further my own win condition. Truly the mark of a legend.

If you are mafia, you had me fooled, but I always thought there was likely at least one busser. sweetandcool was already in trouble, and the GF is not that big of a factor because the slot first needs to be scanned, then if they become the only remaining mafia, it is meaningless. However, bussing the GF is good for extra town credit. sweetandcool may not have been the DK if you had not voted for him when you did, but that does not mean you expected your vote to result in him being the DK. If he was going to be DKed at some point in the game, which I think would seem likely to his teammates, I think you would want to be on his wagon D1.

This analysis isn't correct, killing the godfather is a really bad play for scum and the godfather doesn't need to be scanned to benefit scum. As long as the godfather remains unflipped then town can't clear any of their inno reports. That part is objectively wrong. Scum's chances of going into autoloss increase a lot with that play and that's terrible play to intentionally run up the godfather like that as scum. From what you are arguing, I was a goon at that time and my other goon was HamiltonBrian. If I were hell bent on running up a scum slot or setting one up for a future bus why not just bus my other goon instead of the godfather? I think that play is also a terrible scum play, for what it's worth. That's just objectively true about the value of the godfather though and missing from your analysis about how/why I would play in the way I did.

This is less concrete but I hope can be inferred from reading the thread: I played to get sweet voted out EoD1. They had 1 vote at the time I entered the thread and the slot voting them didn't expect the wagon to grow and was looking to vote elsewhere (assuming that was Justaguy on them iirc.) I expected by beating the drum we could get a few votes at least and I hoped we could get a couple extra from town who were self-pressing or wanted someone else to blame if their wagon flipped town. I thought what I said was pretty convincing stuff at the time I said it. I don't think scum!froggy EoD1 has any reason to expect those slots to all suddenly vote sweet at the last second without some call to action. If they did, I could just hop on at the end because the groundwork was laid out earlier in D1 for that. This last part being the crux of what made me so paranoid of ghug.

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

1 e4 e5
2 Nf3 Nc6
3 d4 exd4
4 Nxd4 Bc5
5 c3 Nxd4
6 cxd4 Bb4+
7 Nc3 Qh4
8 Qf3 Nf6
9 Bd3

This was the 4000th post

[Frogsterking]

I think this post has a lot of pocketing potential to pocket everyone except ghug and heart.

Hmm.. I wonder why those two slots who I wrongly singled out as scum N1 are the same slots insisting I am scum despite that not making any sense. Hmm. There must be some connection. Hmm. I am stroking my goatee and pondering deeply why those two slots I wrongly singled out as scum for bad reasons responded by wrongly singling my slot out as scum for bad reasons. Hmm.

Do you really have a goatee?

Perhaps

Hmm.. I wonder why those two slots who I wrongly singled out as scum N1 are the same slots insisting I am scum despite that not making any sense. Hmm. There must be some connection. Hmm. I am stroking my goatee and pondering deeply why those two slots I wrongly singled out as scum for bad reasons responded by wrongly singling my slot out as scum for bad reasons. Hmm.

Do you really have a goatee?

Frogster Brad Pitt confirmed? Two celebs in the forum?

Shhhh

[bozotheclown]

I think this post has a lot of pocketing potential to pocket everyone except ghug and heart.

Hmm.. I wonder why those two slots who I wrongly singled out as scum N1 are the same slots insisting I am scum despite that not making any sense. Hmm. There must be some connection. Hmm. I am stroking my goatee and pondering deeply why those two slots I wrongly singled out as scum for bad reasons responded by wrongly singling my slot out as scum for bad reasons. Hmm.

It looks like ghug suspected you before you suspected him.

[bozotheclown]

This is a good summary of the paranoia surrounding my slot. Very "fear of the unknown" and "fear of the unexpected" with observations then looked for to justify that line of thinking. In a different game I could see it being a more influential factor, in this game you can see that I am unlikely to be scum based on D1. Ghug's read on me requires both that I have "cleanest busser" in my scum range and that I would choose to put my team into potential autoloss territory when I apparently have the scum range to do...anything else. Bunny's interpretation of how my behavior can be scum motivated is that I am "freezing up and panicking." Darg's interpretation of how my behavior can be scum motivated is the opposite. Darg believes I am cool as a cucumber and any humor for example is an attempt to "win them over." This seems intrinsically unlikely to be true as again, if I were so calculating and my scum range were so omnipresent, how is it efficient to go from "intensity" to "light humor" in a way that both requires a more extensive dramatic range but also causes players to be more suspicious of me? Why not just say nothing at all? Or use this presumably omnipotent range to say something banal or innocuous?

Clearly the mark of a truly skilled scum player, actor and master manipulator is to kill their godfather D1 and then draw suspicion in a way that requires wasting a lot of energy on posts that are unlikely to get me town read or further my own win condition. Truly the mark of a legend.

If you are mafia, you had me fooled, but I always thought there was likely at least one busser. sweetandcool was already in trouble, and the GF is not that big of a factor because the slot first needs to be scanned, then if they become the only remaining mafia, it is meaningless. However, bussing the GF is good for extra town credit. sweetandcool may not have been the DK if you had not voted for him when you did, but that does not mean you expected your vote to result in him being the DK. If he was going to be DKed at some point in the game, which I think would seem likely to his teammates, I think you would want to be on his wagon D1.

This analysis isn't correct, killing the godfather is a really bad play for scum and the godfather doesn't need to be scanned to benefit scum. As long as the godfather remains unflipped then town can't clear any of their inno reports. That part is objectively wrong. Scum's chances of going into autoloss increase a lot with that play and that's terrible play to intentionally run up the godfather like that as scum. From what you are arguing, I was a goon at that time and my other goon was HamiltonBrian. If I were hell bent on running up a scum slot or setting one up for a future bus why not just bus my other goon instead of the godfather? I think that play is also a terrible scum play, for what it's worth. That's just objectively true about the value of the godfather though and missing from your analysis about how/why I would play in the way I did.

This is less concrete but I hope can be inferred from reading the thread: I played to get sweet voted out EoD1. They had 1 vote at the time I entered the thread and the slot voting them didn't expect the wagon to grow and was looking to vote elsewhere (assuming that was Justaguy on them iirc.) I expected by beating the drum we could get a few votes at least and I hoped we could get a couple extra from town who were self-pressing or wanted someone else to blame if their wagon flipped town. I thought what I said was pretty convincing stuff at the time I said it. I don't think scum!froggy EoD1 has any reason to expect those slots to all suddenly vote sweet at the last second without some call to action. If they did, I could just hop on at the end because the groundwork was laid out earlier in D1 for that. This last part being the crux of what made me so paranoid of ghug.

OK, that is valid point about the additional benefit of the GF, but it does not mean someone wasn't bussing. sweetandcool having only 1 vote is a reason why you might have thought you could do what you did without sweetandcool being the DK. Or, you might have thought sweetandcool was not likely to last past D2 anyway so you went for maximum town credit.

[Frogsterking]

I think this post has a lot of pocketing potential to pocket everyone except ghug and heart.

Hmm.. I wonder why those two slots who I wrongly singled out as scum N1 are the same slots insisting I am scum despite that not making any sense. Hmm. There must be some connection. Hmm. I am stroking my goatee and pondering deeply why those two slots I wrongly singled out as scum for bad reasons responded by wrongly singling my slot out as scum for bad reasons. Hmm.

It looks like ghug suspected you before you suspected him.

That's weird, I'm assuming you're referring to something they posted N1. I reread their ISO D1 and it looks like we were both paranoid of each other from the beginning. I'm not sure how they became more suspicious of me after D1 ended but before I called everyone else town except for them, but apparently they did.

[Frogsterking]

sweetandcool having only 1 vote is a reason why you might have thought you could do what you did without sweetandcool being the DK. Or, you might have thought sweetandcool was not likely to last past D2 anyway so you went for maximum town credit.

Yes exactly and neither of those narratives are probable. If those are the best explanations you can come up with then it's time to move onto other slots. You can't be faulted now for not doing your due diligence or ignoring ghug's read on me. You do need to find the last scum slot in order to win though, as do I, and this line of inquiry isn't going to lead to that.

[Frogsterking]

@frog would you be freezing as only scum left?

Yup

How would that present itself? Failure under a push?

Yeah and lurking out

[dargorygel]

@frog
I interpreted your actions AS freezing. You seem an articulate serious oerson. Your bursts of lightness IS how I would see you freezing

I don't expect you to agree, of course.

[Frogsterking]

You seem different, what's wrong with you?

Was this meant as a joke?

So you accurately suspected sweetandcool was mafia after his first post of the game?

Yeah of course

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

Yup

How would that present itself? Failure under a push?

Yeah and lurking out

Frog is like, literally the exact opposite player as me lol

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

Whoops I quoted the wrong post

[Frogsterking]

@frog
I interpreted your actions AS freezing. You seem an articulate serious oerson. Your bursts of lightness IS how I would see you freezing

I don't expect you to agree, of course.

I can't imagine a less accurate description about what freezing is or looks like. I'm trying to come up with a less accurate description of freezing though because I'm sure one exists. Okay here's my try
"freezing is like skipping peacefully through a meadow while swinging a basket of flowers. In mafia play you can see this freezing reflected by the lightness in their posts and the ease at which they say whatever comes to mind."
I think that is still only about as inaccurate as what you said, because I basically just reworded your description of freezing but added my own simile in front of it. If anyone can come up with a less accurate description of freezing than "bursts of lightness" then I'd be curious to read it.

[Frogsterking]

Whoops I quoted the wrong post

Which post were you trying to quote?

[BunnyGo]

@frog
I interpreted your actions AS freezing. You seem an articulate serious oerson. Your bursts of lightness IS how I would see you freezing

I don't expect you to agree, of course.

I can't imagine a less accurate description about what freezing is or looks like. I'm trying to come up with a less accurate description of freezing though because I'm sure one exists. Okay here's my try
"freezing is like skipping peacefully through a meadow while swinging a basket of flowers. In mafia play you can see this freezing reflected by the lightness in their posts and the ease at which they say whatever comes to mind."
I think that is still only about as inaccurate as what you said, because I basically just reworded your description of freezing but added my own simile in front of it. If anyone can come up with a less accurate description of freezing than "bursts of lightness" then I'd be curious to read it.

i'd ask you to provide useful information...but i'm not sure you will

[Frogsterking]

@frog
I interpreted your actions AS freezing. You seem an articulate serious oerson. Your bursts of lightness IS how I would see you freezing

I don't expect you to agree, of course.

I can't imagine a less accurate description about what freezing is or looks like. I'm trying to come up with a less accurate description of freezing though because I'm sure one exists. Okay here's my try
"freezing is like skipping peacefully through a meadow while swinging a basket of flowers. In mafia play you can see this freezing reflected by the lightness in their posts and the ease at which they say whatever comes to mind."
I think that is still only about as inaccurate as what you said, because I basically just reworded your description of freezing but added my own simile in front of it. If anyone can come up with a less accurate description of freezing than "bursts of lightness" then I'd be curious to read it.

i'd ask you to provide useful information...but i'm not sure you will

About what?

[Frogsterking]

I can't imagine a less accurate description about what freezing is or looks like. I'm trying to come up with a less accurate description of freezing though because I'm sure one exists. Okay here's my try
"freezing is like skipping peacefully through a meadow while swinging a basket of flowers. In mafia play you can see this freezing reflected by the lightness in their posts and the ease at which they say whatever comes to mind."
I think that is still only about as inaccurate as what you said, because I basically just reworded your description of freezing but added my own simile in front of it. If anyone can come up with a less accurate description of freezing than "bursts of lightness" then I'd be curious to read it.

i'd ask you to provide useful information...but i'm not sure you will

About what?

You don't ask; you don't get.

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

@frog
I interpreted your actions AS freezing. You seem an articulate serious oerson. Your bursts of lightness IS how I would see you freezing

I don't expect you to agree, of course.

I meant to quote this one.

[Frogsterking]

i'd ask you to provide useful information...but i'm not sure you will

About what?

You don't ask; you don't get.

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/38613-Carbon-14-Modified-v2-%28Hosted-by-DarkB%29

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/39456-Clash-Mafia-Path-Of-Legends

[Frogsterking]

@frog
I interpreted your actions AS freezing. You seem an articulate serious oerson. Your bursts of lightness IS how I would see you freezing

I don't expect you to agree, of course.

I meant to quote this one.

That's cool, I get in my head when I'm scum because I think everything I'm saying looks fishy.