Mafia 86: Accidents Happen... - Game Thread

[dargorygel]

Bunny, how long did you expect to keep posting those GT things?

most of day 1. I really dislike day 1.

You expected to only do it most of D1? You knew you would run out of steam? You knew we would all hate it, even while we smiled?

What do you dislike about D1? Or was it THIS D1 you hated?

[dargorygel]

maybe not chaqa- ghug... I am not sure who chaqa pairs up with in my mind.

only 1 scum left

does that change your readings?

It does not, in this way I am analysing... not 'pairings' as folk you are scum together... but "pairings" as in "it is this person OR that person."

[dargorygel]

That would be an insane play to throw my godfather under the bus like that..insanely stupid.

I’ve recently re read both Frog and Will’s D1 and I think anyone considering Frog should compare the two.

Frog literally shouted at everyone to get on the wagon. He didn’t just vote, he pushed and accelerated the wagon.

Conversely, Will was sitting alone on sweet with ten minutes to go when the wagon suddenly picked up. He didn’t say anything in that time. I could see him “open wolfing” as brain suggested, trying to get a cop scan on sweet, but then getting stuck on his wagon when it took off.

Will is still not the top scumread for me but Will is much, much more likely to be scum than Frog.

Yeah, I am off Froggie... and have been thinking about Will again, too.
Read brain's cases on him.

[Chaqa]

I got ninja’d

?

In internet speak, being ninja’d is when someone replies before you, sneaking a post in that wasn’t there

[Chaqa]

I dont believe there is any benefit to competing wagons since we’re down to 1 scum. The scum will always vote for not themselves or be in theory indifferent if both are town

[dargorygel]

I dont believe there is any benefit to competing wagons since we’re down to 1 scum. The scum will always vote for not themselves or be in theory indifferent if both are town

True I suppose.

[damo666]

That would be an insane play to throw my godfather under the bus like that..insanely stupid.

I’ve recently re read both Frog and Will’s D1 and I think anyone considering Frog should compare the two.

Frog literally shouted at everyone to get on the wagon. He didn’t just vote, he pushed and accelerated the wagon.

Conversely, Will was sitting alone on sweet with ten minutes to go when the wagon suddenly picked up. He didn’t say anything in that time. I could see him “open wolfing” as brain suggested, trying to get a cop scan on sweet, but then getting stuck on his wagon when it took off.

Will is still not the top scumread for me but Will is much, much more likely to be scum than Frog.

Will is my 4th choice behind ghug, you and chaqa

[foodcoats]

I, on the other hand, am seeing almost everyone as scum. I don't see how townies wouldn't share that perspective. Going back to chaqa's suggestion maks sense. But I am leaning this way;

##vote frog

What makes you think frog is the most likely?

I have felt most of his 'drives' have been disengenous.

I have been looking at ghug already (maybe showing my lack of 'all in' with froggy.)

We know he is very good at this game. Which makes him valuable when he is in endgame. But as I read over his conversations with me, I am beginning to see what might be almost-like-buddying. "Almost" because it isn't strong. Just nudges.

Has anyone else noticed this, themselves? (Someone mentioned this a while ago, but take a look and see if he has been lightly touching positive-triggers for YOU.)

Interesting. I certainly felt the push on sweet was weird earlier, but re reading it has changed my opinion. I also felt frog acted strangely when he appeared just after you town-cleared bozo and did not have the case he planned to make but simply shifted gears to ghug.

I haven’t found frog to be buddying, in fact I find him slightly aloof.

[foodcoats]

Add damo to my townie list... maybe in place of ghug?

In my mind I am seeing these pairings:

it is froggy or ghug

it is damo or food

it is chaqa or ghug.

These pairings make me on the edge of switching to ghug.

I don’t understand this. Logically this means it is any of these six people.

[foodcoats]

That would be an insane play to throw my godfather under the bus like that..insanely stupid.

I’ve recently re read both Frog and Will’s D1 and I think anyone considering Frog should compare the two.

Frog literally shouted at everyone to get on the wagon. He didn’t just vote, he pushed and accelerated the wagon.

Conversely, Will was sitting alone on sweet with ten minutes to go when the wagon suddenly picked up. He didn’t say anything in that time. I could see him “open wolfing” as brain suggested, trying to get a cop scan on sweet, but then getting stuck on his wagon when it took off.

Will is still not the top scumread for me but Will is much, much more likely to be scum than Frog.

Will is my 4th choice behind ghug, you and chaqa

I’m starting to feel chaqa is not scum, but it is via vibes only.

[dargorygel]

##VOTE GHUG

[foodcoats]

Hey Bunny what’s your case on damo?

Here's my progression from D2 where he was a solid town:

http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?user=Bunn*&word=damo*&part=d2&g=86

then started making the case a bit after Ham flipped:

http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?user=Bunn*&word=damo*&part=n2&g=86

Then I forgot and went back to towning him d3 until I kept reading again and got suss:

http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?user=Bunn*&word=damo*&part=d3&g=86

Well I don't understand your case, so there's that.

damo's D1 vote on sweet feels unlikely to be scum. His D2 voting doesn't look as good with Ham except that Ham was clearly in his POE the entire day.

A lot of my POE is based on the idea that scum would not be total madlads with the bussing.

[foodcoats]

conftown
bozotheclown - cop inno scan
dargorygel - cop

strong town
Frogsterking - D1 vote on sweet
BunnyGo - D1 targeting by sweet and Ham
damo666 - D1 vote on sweet and D2 POE with Ham

voting candidates
ghug - I like the case made by frogster and bozo
JustAGuyNamedWill - is playing way more wily nily than last game; as I said on D1 I gave sweet a pass on this as he was also polarized and that turned out wrong, so maybe I should trust my gut wrong. Theory is that he could've got stuck on his teammate sweet on D1, as he was sitting comfy with just 1 vote until the wagon surged, and it would've been awkward if we got off and sweet flipped. On D2 he got on Ham's wagon when Bunny's wagon was in the lead - this is a sweet spot for scum bussing in my opinion. But then the same thing happened where in 2 minutes the wagon surged. So I guess my "is will scum?" theory is based on him getting onto his teammates wagon to gain town cred but getting stuck when those wagons picked up steam.
Chaqa - basically here as my last guess. Not strong scum vibes just POE.

[Chaqa]

Alright, time for some thoughts.

Part 1: Sweet
First, let's go through Sweet's posts and look for possible links to remaining scum, but also see how he links himself to known or dead townies to see if we can glean anything that way.

To the GT:

Wtf was with that flavor text? I mean, full props for interesting historical fiction, but weird. You planning on just having tragedies from throughout history?

Jamie’s posts are strong town!Jimbo. I honestly don’t know what it is about his energy that triggers me, but last game it was niggling my brain, this game much more town.

Froggy’s opening posts read more like a person trying to play froggy from last game.

Sweet and Just…sigh.

In all honesty though, that’s on me to recalibrate some more. Heart told me after last game that he vibes well with Just. So it might be generational miscommunication. I’ll try listening better again.

Wow, I really appreciate seeing your thoughts. Unfortunately for you, it also makes it really easy to read you.

##VOTE Bunny

To the GT:

Wtf was with that flavor text? I mean, full props for interesting historical fiction, but weird. You planning on just having tragedies from throughout history?

Jamie’s posts are strong town!Jimbo. I honestly don’t know what it is about his energy that triggers me, but last game it was niggling my brain, this game much more town.

Froggy’s opening posts read more like a person trying to play froggy from last game.

Sweet and Just…sigh.

In all honesty though, that’s on me to recalibrate some more. Heart told me after last game that he vibes well with Just. So it might be generational miscommunication. I’ll try listening better again.

Wow, I really appreciate seeing your thoughts. Unfortunately for you, it also makes it really easy to read you.

##VOTE Bunny

Hmph, now your later posts make it seem as this is supposed to be a bit. Whereas I thought you were being serious, because in signups or last games GT or somewhere you said something about posting your thoughts into the thread.

These two posts are an interaction with Bunny that probably means little, but Sweet literally never changed this vote, all the way to EOD. I find it hard to believe Sweet would lock into a scum teammate for that long, and given we know Hamilton also voted for Bunny, this is an indicator for:

+1 Town Point for Bunny

I'm sure you're joking, but IRL has got me grumpy. My goal nonetheless this game is to try to be as reasonably civil as in last game.

Thank you for being open. How is being on tilt affecting your ability to make up reads?

I don't think my abilities will be impacted, just want to yell at someone

This could be read as scum!Frog trying to provide some room for Sweet to explain himself.

+1 Scum Point for Frog

##VOTE Frog

:O

I forgot ghug is in the game, yay!

I'm going to have to accept he's a nudist voter, I guess :/

I'm trying to analyze this post. First he makes a :O face, which I assume is at ghug voting Frog. The way I read this interaction is that ghug finds Frog's questioning of Sweet odd so votes him, and then Sweet is like "oh i forgot ghug is in this game, yay! Oh but he sucks!"

Which I find a pretty legit reaction. So I'm not sure what to assign this except to call it out as potential for ghug or Frog to be linked to Sweet.

Yeah, so it seems Bunny's posts are a mixture of serious and satire.

The post when I quoted him seemed "serious" and it felt like a post scum Bunny would make.

Like it felt forged, if that makes sense.

This could be clever distancing, but I really get the idea Sweet wants to kill Bunny from this.

+1 Town Point for Bunny

d4 c6 c4 d5 Nf3 e6 g3 Nf6 Bg2 Nbd7 O-O c5 Nc3 Be7 dxc5 Nxc5

It was this basically.
I am black

I swear I played cxd5. Either I didn't or you missed it. I'm playing it now either way.

Long story short
from a role playing game. we have a chess game ongoing within it. my character was an augustinian priest named ruy lopez and sweet insisted on playing a game of chess, im not doing well in an opening out of the slav.

guess that wasnt very short

Genius. I think my favourite thing about RPGs is how they tend to slide into absurdities, inside jokes and memes. I guess some people play them very seriously, but what a horrid life that would be.

You should join our motley crew (:

It's not too late to join.

To the GT:

Food, froggy, sweet, Jamie all online. Nobody is posting. I’m soooooooo bored.

I'm playing at losing at mahjong.

Am quite disturbed about Jamiet's last comment about "sub-humans".

I can't help but imagine heartthrob as a tub of vanilla ice cream in front of his computer.

This is not an insult, just a reflection on the fact that I've yet to glean anything from him and it has been like three games now.

Heart, maybe you should emulate Bunny here?

I'm noticing Sweet is interacting a lot but it's not about the game - now admittedly this is Day 1, but I'm wondering if he is only doing this with town so as not to draw his scum mates into anything? Just a thought.

I can. A judge has to weigh both sides of an argument. I want to judge as accurately as possible.

Some of Bunny's posts can be excused as satire. Some look suspiciously fake.

When did you decide to start scum reading bunny, sweet?

From the post I quoted when I voted them.

This feels like a leading question from scumFrog to scumSweet to me

+1 Scum Point for Frog

I don’t know who said it but it was like: “Frog is trying to be Frog from last game, not town”

I am trying to avoid leaning on meta too much, but Frog does not seem to be playing materially different from last game. Is there any post in particular that seems fake?

That's funny because I thought he was a little different. Can't put my finger on it, but he is not bothering me as much.

I think his Town play is actually incredibly easy to copy as Mafia, so I'm annoyed by Heart towning him for just playing how he did last game (pretty sure Heart towned him last game for the exact same reasons).

I'm trying to think why scum!Sweet would make these posts about Frog if Frog were his teammate, but I'm not really coming up with one. I think scumSweet would be happy heart (known to Sweet as town) is towning Frog.

+2 Town Point for Frog

I think you're doing the thing where you take two things someone has said and assume they're connected.

ghug and brain not scum together
and then later
ghug scum
does not imply
brain scum if ghug town

I noticed this as well but don’t find it inherently scummy for brainbomb to make leaps in logic (although I won’t give him town points for doing so).

I do find it interesting that ghug seems to be investing more energy into correcting others than making his own insights.

Correct that this is NAI for brainbomb.

This is also typical ghug. I always find myself agreeing with him and consequently scumreading him (from paranoia). So far he is null for me, but that's probably because we haven't substantially interacted yet.

This post feels wrong to me. Sweet is using a lot of words to say "idk" about ghug with a hedged scumread. Noting for later to see how this ghug read may develop.

Wow, I thought Will's play last game was good and I'm liking it this game too.

Just a Will Named Town.

He doesn't explain why he likes Will's town play. It makes me think he was looking to begin buddying Will?

===================================
INTERLUDE 1
===================================
Sweet's last post was made with more than one full day remaining. At that time, the vote count is basically non-existent. Only four votes have been cast, including his own. He will not return until just under 6 hours remain in the game. By that point, the vote count is as such:

Sweet (2): Just, ghug
Bunny (2): Sweet, Food
Food (1): Brain
Brain (1): Bunny
Bozo (1): Jamie
Jamie (1): Vecna

Sorry I've been gone for a while, had an uncharacteristically busy day yesterday. Managed to mostly keep on top of reading but wasn't able to react at all. I am going to spend my morning tea time looking over the game and coming up with some salient posts.

A quick unrefined reaction:

The scumreading of me came out of nowhere and is stupid and bizarre.

ghug has decided he knows my scumvibe after essentially one D1 success. Will is deluding himself yet again that his usual sheeping worked out, rather than any real success at reading me. brainbomb is scum reading me because I wasn't previously scumread this game, which he was right was uncharacteristic.

I wasn't using my normal technique this game, but it looks like there is a decent chance one of the three is Mafia and has decided I'm a soft target for D1 and targeted me randomly.

This post really strongly calls out ghug and Will. I read this as him being annoyed two people are onto him so early. The odd thing is that ghug does move off of Sweet soon after. Could this have been sweet signaling to ghug "you found something correct, but shut up about it or I'm going to die"?

Whereas for Will he basically is mad at him for being right for the wrong reason. See followup post:

Perfectly on cue too! But yes, I love to sheep. 13 heads are better than 1!

I was not sheeping? I thought I was the first vote on you? If not, the second. That doesn’t fit my definition of sheeping.

I actually wrote something about that and deleted it because it was written poorly.

No, uncharacteristically you don't seem to be your usual sheeping self this game (though I can't help thinking brainbomb and ghug scum reading me influenced your decision to pounce). I meant that your past successful sheeping has made you decide that you're an expert at reading me.

I'm getting serious vibes of bunny's scumtell bullshit from last game

+1 Scum Point for Ghug
+1 Town Point for A Guy

===================================
INTERLUDE 2
===================================
Sweet disappears again until about 2.5 hours out from EOD. By this time, the vote count has evolved into:

Food (3): Brain, Bunny, ghug
Bunny (3): Damo, food, Sweet
Chaqa (1): Vecna
Sweet (1): JustWill

If you are Sweet coming back at this point, You're feeling pretty good. Sweet comes back with a relatively large post:

I've actually started off looking at bunny again (I am going to look at ghug, Will, brainbomb, and Food, hopefully I have the time).

I thought maybe my scumreading him and voting him based on his first post was harsh, but the more I look at him the more he looks bad.

Bunny's first post seemed insincere because he threw in an obligatory degradation of Will and sweetandcool, when we hadn't done anything yet to warrant it.

His first post of page 3 he decides to townread me, because I mentioned I'm grumpy about life. I still couldn't have possibly done something to make him frustrated with me, and he even references that he needs a better way to read me. Again, this is clearly Bunny saying things he has said in past games, but he has no reason to make those comments.

Third post of page 3 is interesting if Bunny is scum. Could he be teammates with brainbomb?

First post of page 4, maybe it's a casual post or maybe it's a way to spread some stink on me. Bunny seems to want to town me and scum me at the same time.

Last post of page 8 actually makes me mad now that I'm rereading it. Is scum Bunny trying to make us look like teammates?! I'm really not liking his interactions with me (I wasn't planning on cherrypicking his posts that refer to me, but those are the ones that keep pinging me the most).

2nd post of page 9, he agrees with brainbomb and continues to negatively comment on Food. There have been a few posts about Food that don't ping me, but it's interesting how he seems to be buddying brainbomb. Is brainbomb town or are they being obvious partners to the point that we can't think they are partners? Or is it a bus on Food? I haven't felt bad about Food but I do worry about potential pocketing. Food's been too easygoing with me, and it makes me wary.

Several posts later: Jeeze, Bunny become fixated on brainbomb. Not towning or scumming brainbomb really, just mentioning the hell out of him.

Okay, at this point I've concluded Bunny is probably scum. He is currently gunning for Food. Bus or MK?

I was planning on saving Food for last, but I think I'll look at him next. Then onto my accusers.

First, he says he's "been looking at Bunny again" and that he will look into ghug, Will, brain, and food.

He essentially doubles down on Bunny, calls him insincere. He also calls out "scum Bunny trying to make us look like teammates". This is something interesting that I could see doing if Sweet and Bunny were teammates together.

Sweet also dismisses the Food wagon a bit here, but then says that Bunny is trying to gun for Food and says "Bus or MK?"

This is odd to me. It is awfully early to be bringing up bussing, unless there is already bussing going on, no? Or in case Food is also scum and Sweet is trying to set up Bunny as his bussing teammate.

+1 Scum Point for Bunny
+1 Scum Point for Food

Hard scumread on sweet, but no one else seems to think so.

##VOTE BUNNY

Not necessarily one big reason, more like a compounding of little reasons.

WTF, you are hard scumming me, and voting with me? So you think it is a bus?

Okay, clearly you are either scum or sheeping so hard the wool is totally over your eyes. I don't care if you haven't made sheeping indicative comments, you clearly are just refraining from making them.

+1 Town Point for Will

WTF, you are hard scumming me, and voting with me? So you think it is a bus?

Okay, clearly you are either scum or sheeping so hard the wool is totally over your eyes. I don't care if you haven't made sheeping indicative comments, you clearly are just refraining from making them.

Did bro forget sentence 1? I flipped because I thought no one would vote with me. Damo did, and I’m back.

Goddamn this is stupid. Can you read? I don't care why you flipped from not voting me. I care that you were voting with me. Utter nonsense if your read on me is so strong.

@Everyone, I am happy to vote Will. Both he and Bunny seem to be good candidates. I prefer Bunny though because Will might be purposefully triggering me with this lunacy. Also, he is more likely to lead us back to his teammates.

+1 Town Point for Will
+1 Town Point for Bunny

Okay, read through Food. Not going to make a long post about it.

I am unsure what to think about Food. Not exactly liking his D1, but not terrible.

I will comment that while I know this community by default hates most reads list (at least for D1?), I don't think it's a great reason to scum Food. Nothing on that list really pinged me, at least.

Not finished with Will yet, but just wanted to clarify what I did like about his play, when I made that comment around page 20:

I really liked what seemed to be original Will critical thinking that I rarely see. His comments about Frog seemed to have some thought behind them (first post of page 18).

I also thought his comment on Page 19 was interesting because it seemed advanced. If we are dealing with scum Will, then I could now see it as a defense of a teammate (chaqa).

Yeah, so Will started the game scumreading Frog and following through with a vote eventually. This all seemed like good play. I don't have time to look at Frog and assess his alignment, but definitely something to look into N1/D2.

Then brainbomb comes out and scums Will, paired with either sweetandcool or Chaqa. brainbomb's attack really makes no sense to me, but it is very brainbomb-esque. Not going to get distracted with that yet.

But Will is pretty meh until he posts a readslist where he finally mentions me and I'm not sure whether that list scums me, towns me, or neither.

But then his next post is confidently declaring me scum, and it absolutely comes out of nowhere (last post of Page 24). It's important to note that this comes after brainbomb mentions me as a scumcandidate and ghug confidently declares me scum based on vibes.

This and his latest behaviour leads me to believe either:

1. Will is scum.
2. Will was sheeping hard and just won't admit it. But usually him sheeping is very clear.
3. This was a reaction test which I apparently failed because he is scumming me harder. Also probably partially (2) as well.

Sweet is following a progression here on Will after Will has voted him that eventually culminates in this post:

Done with Will. Nothing new to add really. Pretty flabbergasted if this is Town Will.

I would conclude strongly that Will is Mafia, except that other than last game I have scummed Will fairly strongly, even when we were teammates. So maybe I'm just not able to be objective with Will.

But come on, I really don't get his behaviour.

At this point, there are still a few hours in the day and Sweet hasn't been in the lead. So I think Sweet is genuinely beginning to try to get Will voted out.

+2 Town Points for Will

I wanted to look at brain, ghug, and even Frog, but I don't have time other than maybe too close to EoD. Gotta take my kids to the playground.

I'm happy enough though because I think Bunny or Will are both really good votes for today.

I don't understand why the wagons are how they are. Bunny and Will seem like extremely good candidates. Why are people being hung up on others? Like I understand some of the paranoia, but it seems pretty clear who we should be voting for here.

Sounds like Sweet telling his teammates "get on one of these two wagons"

+2 Town Points for Bunny
+2 Town Points for Will

Sweet disappears for an hour and comes back with 2 minutes left and posts these:

Just got in my car in the grocery parking lot.

Can't catch up, by I see I'm being flashed.

Fuck off, Bunny and Will are obvious votes and town is sucking right now.

Can I not be D1 again? You guys like voting me all the time ):

This is a very bad pair of options and I'm annoyed you all let this happen.

Please not me, bunny is the obvious choice ):

And out goes a scumbo.

[Chaqa]

Score so far:
Will +5 Town
Bunny +4 Town
Frog: Zero
Food +1 Scum
Ghug +1 Scum

[Chaqa]

Part 2: Hamilton coming eventually

[Chaqa]

Also, Sweet barely interacted with Damo, and never said his name or mentioned him outside of quotes. Very odd.

[BunnyGo]

Bit pissed and skimmed but assume doc self saved so should therefore reveal.

This hasn’t aged better. What’s up damo?

[BunnyGo]

Score so far:
Will +5 Town
Bunny +4 Town
Frog: Zero
Food +1 Scum
Ghug +1 Scum

Why is damo not on the chart?

[BunnyGo]

Bunny, how long did you expect to keep posting those GT things?

most of day 1. I really dislike day 1.

You expected to only do it most of D1? You knew you would run out of steam? You knew we would all hate it, even while we smiled?

What do you dislike about D1? Or was it THIS D1 you hated?

My GT lurking usually dies after D1.

Days 1 I have nothing to research, and people don’t get me. So I’m always a target. Unless I’m quiet. When we get to night 1/day 2…I have something to do and read and say and people follow me better.

It wasn’t so much that I’d run out of steam, but I’d have better things to do.