Mafia 86: Accidents Happen... - Game Thread

[bozotheclown]

What’s interesting is that Will was sitting alone on sweet until literally 10 minutes to go when sweet basically got flash wagoned. Within TWO mins sweet was the lead wagon and then ghug tied sweet and Bunny’s wagon. Still a worse look for ghug but Will might’ve gotten stuck where he was. He also scumread Bunny so he had no viable reason to move between wagons. He also didn’t post anything after Frog joined him on the wagon and it took off. Did he freeze up?

He also posted this, would could be consistent with bussing:

##vote Ham

that post was bizarre

if sweet only has my vote by the end of the day, I will switch to Ham.

However, Just starting suspecting sweetandcool D1 after sweetandcool posted this:

Wow, I thought Will's play last game was good and I'm liking it this game too.

Just a Will Named Town.

I don't think it seems likely Just would decide to start bussing sweetandcool based on that. I also generally think Just is likely to be town.

[bozotheclown]

I don't think this is an accurate representation of my play.

I think it's a plausible explanation but I also got the vibe that Hamilton actually thought Frog was viable, which you seem to disagree with.

Question for you: I was the only one pushing Frog. Do you think Hamilton would pick his teammate's push in that situation?

Can't account for taste, I guess.

My ham votes are awesome. Damo's Ham vote D1 sucked. I want you to be scum, and your voting is meh and mostly driven by your wagon status, but unfortunately you're just town.

Chaqa as mafia would have had to make the same sort of disingenuous appeals to emotion D1 that he still holds against Flum over a year later. I don't think he'd do that.

Vibes

When I asked for your opinion on the reasons I thought BunnyGo, Chaqa, or foodcoats could be the remaining mafia, you just said you were sure they were all town, potentially pocketing them.

Since you have told me all of my scum suspect are town except for you, I have concluded you are probably the mafia.

I do townread all of them. That doesn't mean I townread everyone. I spent the day thinking you, Frog, and damo were all very plausibly scum.

That Bunny comment was actually me trying to subtly soft cop to try to eat a scum action for Will, which should be further evidence that I believed he was the cop with a scan on Bunny.

That would be a weak soft claim.

[bozotheclown]

When I asked for your opinion on the reasons I thought BunnyGo, Chaqa, or foodcoats could be the remaining mafia, you just said you were sure they were all town, potentially pocketing them.

Since you have told me all of my scum suspect are town except for you, I have concluded you are probably the mafia.

I do townread all of them. That doesn't mean I townread everyone. I spent the day thinking you, Frog, and damo were all very plausibly scum.

That Bunny comment was actually me trying to subtly soft cop to try to eat a scum action for Will, which should be further evidence that I believed he was the cop with a scan on Bunny.

That would be a weak soft claim.

Why did you vote for me D2? Why do you think it is very plausible that damo is mafia?

[dargorygel]

Let’s play a game of ‘What if…”

What if (and I am not saying this is what happened) when I agreed to sub heartthrob’s slot, I saw it was vanilla town… and was a wee little bit disappointed. Vanilla town is dull.

And so, what if (and I am not claiming that this happened) I decided to crumb a cop role for myself. Because in a game like this, basically vanilla, a poor vanilla player (like me, who usually gets miss-killed, doubted, and ends up ineffectual… because I do not blurt out all thoughts, like some of you expect/demand) does not have a lot to offer… but at a KEY moment, a fake claim to protect a PR is useful.

And so, having crumbed (if I did… but I am not saying it was what I did) COP, in a simplistic almost silly way, I got ready to crumb the next day for DOC…

But before I could, the brainbomb/ghug/food incident occurred… (which actually DID happen), and made any actual fake claim gambit lose all power.

And so, what if I then abandoned it… and just played a regular game.

Until (if this happened, which I am not saying actually happened) I saw the chance, having a pretty strong feeling-read on bozo… with folk pretty set on him, for no good reason that I could see, but stubbornness (which usually annoys me in this game, as some of you know!), of playing that ploy after all.

So that, what if I then decided to claim towards the EoD… hoping to introduce some (and I agree with ghug about this, at key moments only) CHAOS into the game, and ruffle things up by claiming cop with an inno on bunny.

And what if it worked.

And what if I had deduced who the COP really is… and sent him a hidden message, hoping that he would see what I was doing, and trusted me… so that he could be free of wandering Scum hits.

And so, I could draw the scum RB… and maybe the NK attempt, protected, maybe, by the doctor.

Thus (IF this happened) I could have accomplished my original hope of a fake-claim. (Which I had only attempted ONCE long ago, disastrously, as bo would tell you, if he were here. Which he is not.)


What a fun tale that would be, eh?

But then, IF this happened, why would I now come clean (IF I were indeed coming clean…)?

Why would I risk setting the Scumbo free from his false shackles on ME?

IF this had all happened… and IF I were now counter claiming myself…

I might be worried about the Doc. Who might protect me falsely (if indeed it IS false). And then waste a necessary protection on the real Cop, or even the Doc himself… since scum had (and scum actually HAD) been taking a “two shot” approach to finding PRs. Scum might be expected to let ME live, only RBing me, and hit a PR candidate. If the Doc protected me, that would be tragic. IF THIS LATEST PART OF THE SAGA were true.

Secondly, what if I believed that a good principle is that town needs to know the truth ( I do generally hold that principle), and so believe that fake claims should be revealed in the next phase, if possible. (and yes, I HAVE actually had that discussion with some players in this game, when discussing the value of Fake Claiming while hanging around in the GodThread.)

Thirdly, what if I agree with the math proposed that declared how many clear scans we needed, and that we needed one more… trusting RBs declared as true, other than mine… and that if SCUM had figured this out, too, they would NOT be RBing me, or killing me, but taking two random shots… wherein IF my claim had caused the DOC to protect me, that would allow someone more important to be killed.


So what if those three things combined to make me write this missive at this time… giving town enough new accurate (IF it is true) information to prepare for tomorrow.

So there it is.

A tale, told by an idiot… signifying nothing.

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

I also do not think this is likely to be true.

He called Bunny "towncore" near EoD2 after not showing progression to that read and scumreading him the previous night. It read as a hint of a scan. Bunny saw it too.

If that is what made you think Just was the cop then I think you would have noticed what dargorygel said when I was a wagon D2 and then again D3 and realized he was more likely to be the cop than Just.

Good catch by bozo

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

Can I get a sanity check on Will? He feels very different than last game where he was town but maybe this is more his normal?

To be fair, I was the D1 kill.

[bozotheclown]

Frog fails to even adress my claim that I'm not actually vying for cred beyond saying I am again. That's fine, we all get stuck in stupid tunnels, and as I've acknowledged the whole time, it's reasonable to suspect me for the way I pulled back on sweet.

The thing that gets me, beyond bring annoyed at the rhetoric, is how lazy it is. A good chunk of the quotes come from posts where I was directly responding to him asking for answers. Combine that with the slow responses in and the missing things, and I'm left trying to figure out whether he can't be fucked to read the thread because of scum or because of towny overconfidence.

I'm also perturbed by the total lack of analysis on the start of the day from Frog. I get the sense that he's read about 10% of the goings on some sweet died and is trying to seem invested by throwing everything at me.

The animosity for Frogsterking does not seem warranted if Frogsterking is just mistakenly scum reading ghug, it seems like it could be an attempt to discredit the read.

[ghug]

It was not my intention to soft claim cop.

Yeah, I don't think it was, but it's important to understand that it could have been read that way. That Bunny did suggests he's actually town, and I personally think that your not being dead or roleblocked should suggest that I am too.

Jamie was crumbing cop, Vecna was suspecting you, and dargorygel is the cop. Why would you have been more likely to DK or RB Just?

Because I wrongly thought Just was the cop.

I'm only talking N2 here. I can also pretty consistently tell when Jamie's a PR, so I doubt I would have killed him either, but I don't expect you to be moved by that argument.

[bozotheclown]

##VOTE Frog

No time to read.

You knew brainbomb was town, why didn't you try to at least discourage him as the DK like you did D2?

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

Let’s play a game of ‘What if…”

What if (and I am not saying this is what happened) when I agreed to sub heartthrob’s slot, I saw it was vanilla town… and was a wee little bit disappointed. Vanilla town is dull.

And so, what if (and I am not claiming that this happened) I decided to crumb a cop role for myself. Because in a game like this, basically vanilla, a poor vanilla player (like me, who usually gets miss-killed, doubted, and ends up ineffectual… because I do not blurt out all thoughts, like some of you expect/demand) does not have a lot to offer… but at a KEY moment, a fake claim to protect a PR is useful.

And so, having crumbed (if I did… but I am not saying it was what I did) COP, in a simplistic almost silly way, I got ready to crumb the next day for DOC…

But before I could, the brainbomb/ghug/food incident occurred… (which actually DID happen), and made any actual fake claim gambit lose all power.

And so, what if I then abandoned it… and just played a regular game.

Until (if this happened, which I am not saying actually happened) I saw the chance, having a pretty strong feeling-read on bozo… with folk pretty set on him, for no good reason that I could see, but stubbornness (which usually annoys me in this game, as some of you know!), of playing that ploy after all.

So that, what if I then decided to claim towards the EoD… hoping to introduce some (and I agree with ghug about this, at key moments only) CHAOS into the game, and ruffle things up by claiming cop with an inno on bunny.

And what if it worked.

And what if I had deduced who the COP really is… and sent him a hidden message, hoping that he would see what I was doing, and trusted me… so that he could be free of wandering Scum hits.

And so, I could draw the scum RB… and maybe the NK attempt, protected, maybe, by the doctor.

Thus (IF this happened) I could have accomplished my original hope of a fake-claim. (Which I had only attempted ONCE long ago, disastrously, as bo would tell you, if he were here. Which he is not.)


What a fun tale that would be, eh?

But then, IF this happened, why would I now come clean (IF I were indeed coming clean…)?

Why would I risk setting the Scumbo free from his false shackles on ME?

IF this had all happened… and IF I were now counter claiming myself…

I might be worried about the Doc. Who might protect me falsely (if indeed it IS false). And then waste a necessary protection on the real Cop, or even the Doc himself… since scum had (and scum actually HAD) been taking a “two shot” approach to finding PRs. Scum might be expected to let ME live, only RBing me, and hit a PR candidate. If the Doc protected me, that would be tragic. IF THIS LATEST PART OF THE SAGA were true.

Secondly, what if I believed that a good principle is that town needs to know the truth ( I do generally hold that principle), and so believe that fake claims should be revealed in the next phase, if possible. (and yes, I HAVE actually had that discussion with some players in this game, when discussing the value of Fake Claiming while hanging around in the GodThread.)

Thirdly, what if I agree with the math proposed that declared how many clear scans we needed, and that we needed one more… trusting RBs declared as true, other than mine… and that if SCUM had figured this out, too, they would NOT be RBing me, or killing me, but taking two random shots… wherein IF my claim had caused the DOC to protect me, that would allow someone more important to be killed.


So what if those three things combined to make me write this missive at this time… giving town enough new accurate (IF it is true) information to prepare for tomorrow.

So there it is.

A tale, told by an idiot… signifying nothing.

What if

[ghug]

When I asked for your opinion on the reasons I thought BunnyGo, Chaqa, or foodcoats could be the remaining mafia, you just said you were sure they were all town, potentially pocketing them.

Since you have told me all of my scum suspect are town except for you, I have concluded you are probably the mafia.

I do townread all of them. That doesn't mean I townread everyone. I spent the day thinking you, Frog, and damo were all very plausibly scum.

That Bunny comment was actually me trying to subtly soft cop to try to eat a scum action for Will, which should be further evidence that I believed he was the cop with a scan on Bunny.

I do not remember you ever saying why you suspected Frogsterking, damo, or myself. Also, Frogsterking and damo have not been heavily suspected, so as mafia you could giving vague scum read of players not likely to be DKed while letting town mis-kill each other. Why have you suspected Frogsterking since N1 other than him suspecting you?

We argued at length about how I thought he was approaching the game lazily and you didn't, so you can't say I never gave reason for suspecting him.

You and damo, it came down to the pool of people I didn't townread being very small. I believed Will and Bunny to be cop and scan, darg's Hamilton push looked very good, and I've stated my reasons for townreading brain, food, and Chaqa at length, which left you three. I came to think you were less likely than the other two because of your bold defense of Hamilton.

[Chaqa]

Let’s play a game of ‘What if…”

What if (and I am not saying this is what happened) when I agreed to sub heartthrob’s slot, I saw it was vanilla town… and was a wee little bit disappointed. Vanilla town is dull.

And so, what if (and I am not claiming that this happened) I decided to crumb a cop role for myself. Because in a game like this, basically vanilla, a poor vanilla player (like me, who usually gets miss-killed, doubted, and ends up ineffectual… because I do not blurt out all thoughts, like some of you expect/demand) does not have a lot to offer… but at a KEY moment, a fake claim to protect a PR is useful.

And so, having crumbed (if I did… but I am not saying it was what I did) COP, in a simplistic almost silly way, I got ready to crumb the next day for DOC…

But before I could, the brainbomb/ghug/food incident occurred… (which actually DID happen), and made any actual fake claim gambit lose all power.

And so, what if I then abandoned it… and just played a regular game.

Until (if this happened, which I am not saying actually happened) I saw the chance, having a pretty strong feeling-read on bozo… with folk pretty set on him, for no good reason that I could see, but stubbornness (which usually annoys me in this game, as some of you know!), of playing that ploy after all.

So that, what if I then decided to claim towards the EoD… hoping to introduce some (and I agree with ghug about this, at key moments only) CHAOS into the game, and ruffle things up by claiming cop with an inno on bunny.

And what if it worked.

And what if I had deduced who the COP really is… and sent him a hidden message, hoping that he would see what I was doing, and trusted me… so that he could be free of wandering Scum hits.

And so, I could draw the scum RB… and maybe the NK attempt, protected, maybe, by the doctor.

Thus (IF this happened) I could have accomplished my original hope of a fake-claim. (Which I had only attempted ONCE long ago, disastrously, as bo would tell you, if he were here. Which he is not.)


What a fun tale that would be, eh?

But then, IF this happened, why would I now come clean (IF I were indeed coming clean…)?

Why would I risk setting the Scumbo free from his false shackles on ME?

IF this had all happened… and IF I were now counter claiming myself…

I might be worried about the Doc. Who might protect me falsely (if indeed it IS false). And then waste a necessary protection on the real Cop, or even the Doc himself… since scum had (and scum actually HAD) been taking a “two shot” approach to finding PRs. Scum might be expected to let ME live, only RBing me, and hit a PR candidate. If the Doc protected me, that would be tragic. IF THIS LATEST PART OF THE SAGA were true.

Secondly, what if I believed that a good principle is that town needs to know the truth ( I do generally hold that principle), and so believe that fake claims should be revealed in the next phase, if possible. (and yes, I HAVE actually had that discussion with some players in this game, when discussing the value of Fake Claiming while hanging around in the GodThread.)

Thirdly, what if I agree with the math proposed that declared how many clear scans we needed, and that we needed one more… trusting RBs declared as true, other than mine… and that if SCUM had figured this out, too, they would NOT be RBing me, or killing me, but taking two random shots… wherein IF my claim had caused the DOC to protect me, that would allow someone more important to be killed.


So what if those three things combined to make me write this missive at this time… giving town enough new accurate (IF it is true) information to prepare for tomorrow.

So there it is.

A tale, told by an idiot… signifying nothing.

huh

[ghug]

Please ignore the last "BunnyGo".

You can't tell me what to do.

Do you scum read me for that?

Totally.

[bozotheclown]

Yeah, I don't think it was, but it's important to understand that it could have been read that way. That Bunny did suggests he's actually town, and I personally think that your not being dead or roleblocked should suggest that I am too.

Jamie was crumbing cop, Vecna was suspecting you, and dargorygel is the cop. Why would you have been more likely to DK or RB Just?

Because I wrongly thought Just was the cop.

I'm only talking N2 here. I can also pretty consistently tell when Jamie's a PR, so I doubt I would have killed him either, but I don't expect you to be moved by that argument.

If you are mafia, though, I think you did not really think Just was the cop. Since dargorygel was RBed, the mafia likely suspected he was the cop.

[ghug]

When I asked for your opinion on the reasons I thought BunnyGo, Chaqa, or foodcoats could be the remaining mafia, you just said you were sure they were all town, potentially pocketing them.

Since you have told me all of my scum suspect are town except for you, I have concluded you are probably the mafia.

I do townread all of them. That doesn't mean I townread everyone. I spent the day thinking you, Frog, and damo were all very plausibly scum.

That Bunny comment was actually me trying to subtly soft cop to try to eat a scum action for Will, which should be further evidence that I believed he was the cop with a scan on Bunny.

That would be a weak soft claim.

Indeed, I'm generally pretty good at hiding as a PR, so being obvious isn't believable.

[ghug]

I do townread all of them. That doesn't mean I townread everyone. I spent the day thinking you, Frog, and damo were all very plausibly scum.

That Bunny comment was actually me trying to subtly soft cop to try to eat a scum action for Will, which should be further evidence that I believed he was the cop with a scan on Bunny.

That would be a weak soft claim.

Why did you vote for me D2? Why do you think it is very plausible that damo is mafia?

I found your response to the food/ghug/brain claim fiasco underwhelming and thought you could use some pressure.

I was generally pretty underwhelmed with my reads on D2. I had few strong townreads and few strong scumreads, so the pool was large.

[ghug]

I do townread all of them. That doesn't mean I townread everyone. I spent the day thinking you, Frog, and damo were all very plausibly scum.

That Bunny comment was actually me trying to subtly soft cop to try to eat a scum action for Will, which should be further evidence that I believed he was the cop with a scan on Bunny.

That would be a weak soft claim.

Why did you vote for me D2? Why do you think it is very plausible that damo is mafia?

Damo: his vote for sweet is very similar to my own, which people rightly don't give me credit for, and he didn't vote for Hamilton, which I think is likely what scum tried to do after losing sweet day 1.

[foodcoats]

Can I get a sanity check on Will? He feels very different than last game where he was town but maybe this is more his normal?

To be fair, I was the D1 kill.

You were playing differently D1 there vs. here but these are my only times playing with you.

[bozotheclown]

So... scum is taking pot shots to find PRs... who would likely do that? I don't see it as a bozo plan... nor brain... but will? Food? Not ghug... not bunny.
. Back to dinner and work. Bye

I think everyone would do that at this point, potentially claiming RB themselves at some point in the middle.

##VOTE Frog just to keep it interesting

Where is your case against Frogsterking to keep D3 interesting? Why, if you finally made it to D3 as town, did you make no effort to affect the D3 wagons?

[foodcoats]

Let’s play a game of ‘What if…”

What if (and I am not saying this is what happened) when I agreed to sub heartthrob’s slot, I saw it was vanilla town… and was a wee little bit disappointed. Vanilla town is dull.

And so, what if (and I am not claiming that this happened) I decided to crumb a cop role for myself. Because in a game like this, basically vanilla, a poor vanilla player (like me, who usually gets miss-killed, doubted, and ends up ineffectual… because I do not blurt out all thoughts, like some of you expect/demand) does not have a lot to offer… but at a KEY moment, a fake claim to protect a PR is useful.

And so, having crumbed (if I did… but I am not saying it was what I did) COP, in a simplistic almost silly way, I got ready to crumb the next day for DOC…

But before I could, the brainbomb/ghug/food incident occurred… (which actually DID happen), and made any actual fake claim gambit lose all power.

And so, what if I then abandoned it… and just played a regular game.

Until (if this happened, which I am not saying actually happened) I saw the chance, having a pretty strong feeling-read on bozo… with folk pretty set on him, for no good reason that I could see, but stubbornness (which usually annoys me in this game, as some of you know!), of playing that ploy after all.

So that, what if I then decided to claim towards the EoD… hoping to introduce some (and I agree with ghug about this, at key moments only) CHAOS into the game, and ruffle things up by claiming cop with an inno on bunny.

And what if it worked.

And what if I had deduced who the COP really is… and sent him a hidden message, hoping that he would see what I was doing, and trusted me… so that he could be free of wandering Scum hits.

And so, I could draw the scum RB… and maybe the NK attempt, protected, maybe, by the doctor.

Thus (IF this happened) I could have accomplished my original hope of a fake-claim. (Which I had only attempted ONCE long ago, disastrously, as bo would tell you, if he were here. Which he is not.)


What a fun tale that would be, eh?

But then, IF this happened, why would I now come clean (IF I were indeed coming clean…)?

Why would I risk setting the Scumbo free from his false shackles on ME?

IF this had all happened… and IF I were now counter claiming myself…

I might be worried about the Doc. Who might protect me falsely (if indeed it IS false). And then waste a necessary protection on the real Cop, or even the Doc himself… since scum had (and scum actually HAD) been taking a “two shot” approach to finding PRs. Scum might be expected to let ME live, only RBing me, and hit a PR candidate. If the Doc protected me, that would be tragic. IF THIS LATEST PART OF THE SAGA were true.

Secondly, what if I believed that a good principle is that town needs to know the truth ( I do generally hold that principle), and so believe that fake claims should be revealed in the next phase, if possible. (and yes, I HAVE actually had that discussion with some players in this game, when discussing the value of Fake Claiming while hanging around in the GodThread.)

Thirdly, what if I agree with the math proposed that declared how many clear scans we needed, and that we needed one more… trusting RBs declared as true, other than mine… and that if SCUM had figured this out, too, they would NOT be RBing me, or killing me, but taking two random shots… wherein IF my claim had caused the DOC to protect me, that would allow someone more important to be killed.


So what if those three things combined to make me write this missive at this time… giving town enough new accurate (IF it is true) information to prepare for tomorrow.

So there it is.

A tale, told by an idiot… signifying nothing.

Okay but darg never said his favourite opening moves in gunboat, big if scum?