Mafia 86: Accidents Happen... - Game Thread

[dargorygel]

Well, review the math I posted above. If the cop actually had a guilty scan there would be no reason to withhold it. I wasn’t PR hunting, I was testing to see if ghug was fakeclaiming scum, because a real town cop with a guilty scan can greatly simplify things for town and there is no benefit to holding the scan to EON2.

Yes given the GF is dead a cop with a guilty scan should obviously claim. The fact neither ghug (nor brain) explicitly claimed cop with a specific guilty target indicated they were messing about (either as scum or mischievous town but let's just leave it as nai). Now it is possible ghug is cop with an inno scan so asking him to confirm he is not cop is not helpful to town but is helpful to scum. So obviously ghug won't answer regardless of alignment.

At this point there is nothing more to be made of it. I have resolved to listen to my town reads closely going forward to avoid tilt towards brain and ghug. My strongest towns are BunnyGo and Frogster. I think you are town, too.

Ok... so help me out. I have hinted that i would like an explanation about the case on you, (and on will, and on Ham). I see LOUD votes but not LOUD cases. Would you summarize for me?

[foodcoats]

It seems to me that ghug was fake fake-claiming. Does that make a difference to you? Innuendo is not fake claiming. I also still don't see that he was faking a claim on YOU, until you responded to him. He implied (maybe) your guilt because you pushed back on him. That is how I read the sequence of events.

Ghug said he had a guilty scan and then voted for me. Bozo also jumped on that wagon. Since I know my alignment and ghug cannot possibly have a guilty scan on me, I fought back.

See. the word 'then' is the problem for me. Because I don't see him as claiming, really... i see that he voted you for other reasons. And bozo's jumping on, because I don't expect Bozo to have thought the claim was sincere, would be for other reasons.

Reasons that they have stated elsewhere?
And therefore (with respect) it feeeeeeels to me that you are avoiding their real reasons for voting for you. I do not expect you to agree, having read your arguments. I just think you are barking (or defending) the wrong tree.

I talked a lot about how ghug’s scumread of me yesterday was utter trash, and I don’t see that he’s improved it.

[Chaqa]

Until someone explicitly says they are the cop with a guilty scan on someone, I'm assuming this is all just dum theater. It's like scum theater, but worse.

[Chaqa]

You are all getting worked up because of bad communication.

It's like teenage dating in this thread right now.

[brainbomb]

No, just stop.

think about this logically.

scum usually roleblocks the target they kill. if they thought there was a chance jamie was a PR they wouldve probably roleblocked him. Why on earth would they roleblock food, like ever?

food tried to soft doc. anyone with a fucking brain can see it, plain as day. he wasnt softing hes frasier goddamn crane. use some common sense!

and when he sees now he has to retract that softing doc, he needs some other fallback to try to be cleared.

oh great, a roleblock. unprovable, something mafia can claim under scrutiny.

the main reason he retracted his doc claim and has spin zoned it, is because his best line of attack on ghug and myself is that we were anti town. an argument that resonates well with people like damo and chaqa who think anything fake at all is just bad, bad no matter what it did.

again, reread what happened. I beg and implore you on my knees to just go REREAD it. even if you dont reach that same conclusion I did, REREAD it. it doesnt look clean at all, it looks clunky, and it looks like he was searching for a way out of it all along

[foodcoats]

Yes given the GF is dead a cop with a guilty scan should obviously claim. The fact neither ghug (nor brain) explicitly claimed cop with a specific guilty target indicated they were messing about (either as scum or mischievous town but let's just leave it as nai). Now it is possible ghug is cop with an inno scan so asking him to confirm he is not cop is not helpful to town but is helpful to scum. So obviously ghug won't answer regardless of alignment.

At this point there is nothing more to be made of it. I have resolved to listen to my town reads closely going forward to avoid tilt towards brain and ghug. My strongest towns are BunnyGo and Frogster. I think you are town, too.

Ok... so help me out. I have hinted that i would like an explanation about the case on you, (and on will, and on Ham). I see LOUD votes but not LOUD cases. Would you summarize for me?

Ghug’s case yesterday was that I’m scum for making a reads list on D1. He thinks that play style doesn’t work and only scum would do it.

Brain reread some of my old games and I accepted his scumread of me on that basis because I know exactly how my scum and town playstyles diverged at a certain point when I used to play more frequently. He’s wrong, but his case is logical.

Bozo said I was pocketing sweet and he didn’t like that Bunny convinced me to switch votes. I honestly don’t even understand bozo’s case.

[foodcoats]

No, just stop.

think about this logically.

scum usually roleblocks the target they kill. if they thought there was a chance jamie was a PR they wouldve probably roleblocked him. Why on earth would they roleblock food, like ever?

food tried to soft doc. anyone with a fucking brain can see it, plain as day. he wasnt softing hes frasier goddamn crane. use some common sense!

and when he sees now he has to retract that softing doc, he needs some other fallback to try to be cleared.

oh great, a roleblock. unprovable, something mafia can claim under scrutiny.

the main reason he retracted his doc claim and has spin zoned it, is because his best line of attack on ghug and myself is that we were anti town. an argument that resonates well with people like damo and chaqa who think anything fake at all is just bad, bad no matter what it did.

again, reread what happened. I beg and implore you on my knees to just go REREAD it. even if you dont reach that same conclusion I did, REREAD it. it doesnt look clean at all, it looks clunky, and it looks like he was searching for a way out of it all along

I did not make a doc claim. Stop lying.

[Chaqa]

~ a bunch of stuff still not either claiming or retracting they are cop ~

[Chaqa]

Brain: do you have a guilty scan? Yes or no
ghug: do you have a guilty scan? Yes or no

If either of these is a Yes, great.

If both of these are a No, we have wasted our time.

[Chaqa]

You might think I'm being obtuse but I've seen enough stupid mafia shenanigans and people not being on the same page. I want to know what is going on so I can make an informed decision. I do not want to have to read into a fucking Frasier reference.

[damo666]

We have an uncc roleblocked claim lol, that's kind of cool.

yeah, we have to assume food is town (which I already was), obviously it would be great to get a cc but doubt we will!

RB of limited use to scum now isn't it?

Amid the growing discontent with the food at our table, damo... why do you townread him? (my gut does, too...) Have you understood the statements against his townveracity?

1) His comment about me in his early readlist
2) His spirited defence against the supposed accusation
3) His RB claim

Food can be put to one side for the moment. Actually it can't because ham shouldn't be.

I think I'm back to Bozo as Ham's partner or maybe you or maybe Chaqa or just maybe brain.

[damo666]

No, just stop.

think about this logically.

scum usually roleblocks the target they kill. if they thought there was a chance jamie was a PR they wouldve probably roleblocked him. Why on earth would they roleblock food, like ever?

food tried to soft doc. anyone with a fucking brain can see it, plain as day. he wasnt softing hes frasier goddamn crane. use some common sense!

and when he sees now he has to retract that softing doc, he needs some other fallback to try to be cleared.

oh great, a roleblock. unprovable, something mafia can claim under scrutiny.

the main reason he retracted his doc claim and has spin zoned it, is because his best line of attack on ghug and myself is that we were anti town. an argument that resonates well with people like damo and chaqa who think anything fake at all is just bad, bad no matter what it did.

again, reread what happened. I beg and implore you on my knees to just go REREAD it. even if you dont reach that same conclusion I did, REREAD it. it doesnt look clean at all, it looks clunky, and it looks like he was searching for a way out of it all along

Why would they RB the NK in this set up?

Townslip from brain?

[Frogsterking]

Anyone role blocked will be sent a "You were Roleblocked!" message,

Yes, non-PR targets will receive that message.

A saved person will be notified they woke up with a bunch of bandages on them (something like that - don't quote me yet)

A cop will be told the alignment of the scanned individual. Reminder - the Godfather role scans as town.

We have an uncc roleblocked claim lol, that's kind of cool.

yeah, we have to assume food is town (which I already was), obviously it would be great to get a cc but doubt we will!

RB of limited use to scum now isn't it?

My take is that it's double-edged because of its ability to produce psuedo-clears for town. Assuming scum have the ability to *not* roleblock then they could choose to fake claim it any day to psuedo-clear themselves. It's definitely interesting.

[brainbomb]

This is Dr. Foosier Croats… I’m listening.

So chaqa, he says this with two players making a guilty on him. you do not think there is even a 1% chance this is a mafia, going down, faking doc to out the doc on his way down the pipe?

that idea is just something impossible? you dont even wanna contemplate that scum would do this? that if he thinks someone has a guilty on him...

well you go ahead.
you suppose hes not mafia, really thinks one of me or ghug is anti town. and this is not an anti town thing to say, hes actually just casually talking about a sitcom which happens to have a doctor in it.

youre saying this is completely and categorically inadvertant. here? and you stand by that belief?

[Chaqa]

The RB the kill vs. RB separate person is more of a philosophical question in mafia. I know there's been arguments about this before.

I often prefer to spread them out because it gives you two potential PR disruptions, but some people like to play it safe and roleblock the kill so they might hit a self-saving doctor while allowing scum to claim roleblock.

I feel like in our meta, you're about as likely to be suspected for being roleblocked.

[Chaqa]

This is Dr. Foosier Croats… I’m listening.

So chaqa, he says this with two players making a guilty on him. you do not think there is even a 1% chance this is a mafia, going down, faking doc to out the doc on his way down the pipe?

that idea is just something impossible? you dont even wanna contemplate that scum would do this? that if he thinks someone has a guilty on him...

well you go ahead.
you suppose hes not mafia, really thinks one of me or ghug is anti town. and this is not an anti town thing to say, hes actually just casually talking about a sitcom which happens to have a doctor in it.

youre saying this is completely and categorically inadvertant. here? and you stand by that belief?

I have not seen a claim of a guilty scan on Food. I have seen lots of yelling "GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY" and then a conflicting claim.

I have played enough mafia with both you and ghug that I flat out don't believe these types of claims. You will claim it's a reaction test on Food and then say it's as good as a guilty.

If one of you explicitly says you have a guilty on Food, I will vote for him.

If you do not, I will not.

[brainbomb]

how many more data points do you need
he hardsided with the scum godfather
voted alongside the scum godfather
tried desperately to SAVE the scum godfather
was scummy the entire day 1?!
made awkward defenses of sweets HEDGING on bunny??

now all this?

how many more data points do you need. like seriously.

[Chaqa]

His reaction may be a scum thing. But I've also made statements that were otherwise interpreted as something I didn't intend, and then been told I was in fact lying and/or wrong, so...

[brainbomb]

This is Dr. Foosier Croats… I’m listening.

So chaqa, he says this with two players making a guilty on him. you do not think there is even a 1% chance this is a mafia, going down, faking doc to out the doc on his way down the pipe?

that idea is just something impossible? you dont even wanna contemplate that scum would do this? that if he thinks someone has a guilty on him...

well you go ahead.
you suppose hes not mafia, really thinks one of me or ghug is anti town. and this is not an anti town thing to say, hes actually just casually talking about a sitcom which happens to have a doctor in it.

youre saying this is completely and categorically inadvertant. here? and you stand by that belief?

I have not seen a claim of a guilty scan on Food. I have seen lots of yelling "GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY" and then a conflicting claim.

I have played enough mafia with both you and ghug that I flat out don't believe these types of claims. You will claim it's a reaction test on Food and then say it's as good as a guilty.

If one of you explicitly says you have a guilty on Food, I will vote for him.

If you do not, I will not.

I dont have a guilty on foodcoats.
it is absolutely ridiculous that this is all you care about.

[Chaqa]

how many more data points do you need
he hardsided with the scum godfather
voted alongside the scum godfather
tried desperately to SAVE the scum godfather
was scummy the entire day 1?!
made awkward defenses of sweets HEDGING on bunny??

now all this?

how many more data points do you need. like seriously.

You still are not answering my question.

Do you have a guilty on Food?

If not, we wait for ghug.