Mafia 86: Accidents Happen... - Game Thread

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

Nearly. Chips are thicker than French fries. We have French fries too.

(French) fries - the stupid thin things they serve with burgers/KFC type stuff

Chips - about 4 times the size of fries full of potato rather than air and less crisp, usually served with fish and in greasy spoon cafes with more or less anything

Crisps - stupid extremely thin potato products served in packets, overpriced, popular in pubs, known in strange places as "chips"

Hope that helps.

Btw the aforementioned SPUD u like is baked potato with various fillings. Do you have that kind of thing?

How do you feel about jojos and tater tots?

Culvers tater tots and Cheeze Curds are elite. Culvers is the best fast food chain.

[Frogsterking]

I'm assuming night ends at 6 pm EST, correct me if I'm wrong please. I'm at work and I've been thinking about the game.

@darg (heart replacement)
@hamilton brian

#1 What do you know about the bussers on the sweet wagon?
#2 Is it possible sweet spewed anything of interest on your respective slots?
#3 Is there anything else you need to tell me about your D1 play?

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

I'm assuming night ends at 6 pm EST, correct me if I'm wrong please. I'm at work and I've been thinking about the game.

@darg (heart replacement)
@hamilton brian

#1 What do you know about the bussers on the sweet wagon?
#2 Is it possible sweet spewed anything of interest on your respective slots?
#3 Is there anything else you need to tell me about your D1 play?

Darg may not be able to answer #3

[Frogsterking]

I'm assuming night ends at 6 pm EST, correct me if I'm wrong please. I'm at work and I've been thinking about the game.

@darg (heart replacement)
@hamilton brian

#1 What do you know about the bussers on the sweet wagon?
#2 Is it possible sweet spewed anything of interest on your respective slots?
#3 Is there anything else you need to tell me about your D1 play?

In darg's case, your slot's D1 play for question #3

[Vecna]

Also, im just going to pre-empt this with my reasoning for my vote on sweet there, since I think you should also not totally exclude me from the potential bussers.....

In my last readslist I did mention my 4 scum candidates, damo being one of them, and sweet as my hardest to read person in the game.

My reasons to still switch to sweetandcool there over damo:
1: wagon composition, bunny+will+frog (all my favorite townreads) were on it, and had made some compelling arguments.
2: I know ive been fooled by sweet and cool in the past before. While reading some of the sweetandcool posts I actually felt he was slightly more on the towny side, but I actively decided to ignore that feeling and not comment on it since it wasnt good enough of a reason since ive been fooled by that exact play in the past.
3: I know I always tend to wrongly scumread Damo D1. He hardly ever is scum when he appears pretty disinterested. Also, it was Chaqa and ghug voting that wagon.
4: I was never gonna vote bunny to begin with, but his wagon composition was filled with potential scum. (I dont feel foodcoats belongs to that group, but plenty of people scumread him and I need to consider I -could- be wrong in my townread).

Anyways, thisll probably sound completely unneeded to most of you. My vote came at the critical moment to swing the vote to sweetandcool anyway. But at least ive given my reasoning now, so that way if i do somehow survive till later days people wont swing back to re-evaluating my vote from a different light (because it can also be explained from some scum pov im sure).

also, i dont actually think youre scum at all brainbomb.

I think will is town

I think foodcoats is town.

I think bozo is probably town.

I think the 2 new guys are probably town.

I think bunny is probably town

I think scum is in [chaqa, jamiet, damo, HB] - sweet is still hard to read for me

Reason 3 is a contradiction, and as for reason 4, the BunnyGo and sweetandcool wagons each had one voter from your list of 4 possible mafia at the time you placed your vote.

I dont see how reason 3 is a contradiction. I try to kill damo all the time, and he rarely ever is scum when I want to kill him. (also, a wagon with Ghug and Chaqa in that gamestate was just a terrible proposition).

The bunnygo wagon had: SweetAndCool (a proclaimed scum by some of my stronger reads) and a current wagon, HB - whom had done absolutely nothing towny at that point and has gotten worse since, and foodcoats, whom a lot of people have been scumreading. Ghug also crossposted with me and jumped on that wagon, which made it even more hell-no material of me ever changing my vote to it.

SweetAndCool had Will, Frog and Bunny. All of which I liked more than any of the other voters. And they were voting as a block. Damo being there was of little consequence.

[ghug]

I'm assuming night ends at 6 pm EST, correct me if I'm wrong please. I'm at work and I've been thinking about the game.

@darg (heart replacement)
@hamilton brian

#1 What do you know about the bussers on the sweet wagon?
#2 Is it possible sweet spewed anything of interest on your respective slots?
#3 Is there anything else you need to tell me about your D1 play?

EoN is an hour earlier than that.

[bozotheclown]

Also, im just going to pre-empt this with my reasoning for my vote on sweet there, since I think you should also not totally exclude me from the potential bussers.....

In my last readslist I did mention my 4 scum candidates, damo being one of them, and sweet as my hardest to read person in the game.

My reasons to still switch to sweetandcool there over damo:
1: wagon composition, bunny+will+frog (all my favorite townreads) were on it, and had made some compelling arguments.
2: I know ive been fooled by sweet and cool in the past before. While reading some of the sweetandcool posts I actually felt he was slightly more on the towny side, but I actively decided to ignore that feeling and not comment on it since it wasnt good enough of a reason since ive been fooled by that exact play in the past.
3: I know I always tend to wrongly scumread Damo D1. He hardly ever is scum when he appears pretty disinterested. Also, it was Chaqa and ghug voting that wagon.
4: I was never gonna vote bunny to begin with, but his wagon composition was filled with potential scum. (I dont feel foodcoats belongs to that group, but plenty of people scumread him and I need to consider I -could- be wrong in my townread).

Anyways, thisll probably sound completely unneeded to most of you. My vote came at the critical moment to swing the vote to sweetandcool anyway. But at least ive given my reasoning now, so that way if i do somehow survive till later days people wont swing back to re-evaluating my vote from a different light (because it can also be explained from some scum pov im sure).

havent read the last 10 pages.

Anything i should know?

Im more inclined to see sweet die than either of damo or bunnygo

##vote sweetandcool

Your first reason for voting for sweetandcool does not look that good either, because at the time you placed that vote you said you had not read the previous 10 pages, and I am fairly certain Frogsterking at least did not make any compelling arguments about sweetandcool before that (or perhaps ever).

I looked it up and Frogsterking did make a case earlier D1, but it was based mostly on ghug and Just scum reading sweetandcool. However, I could not find any case of BunnyGo making an argument that sweetandcool was mafia, and Just would not say what he thought sweetandcool's scum tell was, which I had not thought was very compelling.

[Vecna]

Also, im just going to pre-empt this with my reasoning for my vote on sweet there, since I think you should also not totally exclude me from the potential bussers.....

In my last readslist I did mention my 4 scum candidates, damo being one of them, and sweet as my hardest to read person in the game.

My reasons to still switch to sweetandcool there over damo:
1: wagon composition, bunny+will+frog (all my favorite townreads) were on it, and had made some compelling arguments.
2: I know ive been fooled by sweet and cool in the past before. While reading some of the sweetandcool posts I actually felt he was slightly more on the towny side, but I actively decided to ignore that feeling and not comment on it since it wasnt good enough of a reason since ive been fooled by that exact play in the past.
3: I know I always tend to wrongly scumread Damo D1. He hardly ever is scum when he appears pretty disinterested. Also, it was Chaqa and ghug voting that wagon.
4: I was never gonna vote bunny to begin with, but his wagon composition was filled with potential scum. (I dont feel foodcoats belongs to that group, but plenty of people scumread him and I need to consider I -could- be wrong in my townread).

Anyways, thisll probably sound completely unneeded to most of you. My vote came at the critical moment to swing the vote to sweetandcool anyway. But at least ive given my reasoning now, so that way if i do somehow survive till later days people wont swing back to re-evaluating my vote from a different light (because it can also be explained from some scum pov im sure).

havent read the last 10 pages.

Anything i should know?

Im more inclined to see sweet die than either of damo or bunnygo

##vote sweetandcool

Your first reason for voting for sweetandcool does not look that good either, because at the time you placed that vote you said you had not read the previous 10 pages, and I am fairly certain Frogsterking at least did not make any compelling arguments about sweetandcool before that (or perhaps ever).

I looked it up and Frogsterking did make a case earlier D1, but it was based mostly on ghug and Just scum reading sweetandcool. However, I could not find any case of BunnyGo making an argument that sweetandcool was mafia, and Just would not say what he thought sweetandcool's scum tell was, which I had not thought was very compelling.

Yeah, why I kept it vague who was doing the casing. I knew Will had more arguments. I felt some others had as well, but I definately did not know who/to what extent. Regardless, all 3 of will/frog/bunny were the voters, meaning the wagon was by far the purest at that time.

[Jamiet99uk]

No. I piled on once I believed the vote to be settled.

So you piled on partly due to the value of tie prevention, after you decided there was no longer the risk of a tie.

Huh?

There's always a risk of a tie. I believed it unlikely Bunny would win.

I do this every game, Jamie.

So you believed the vote was settled and there was not going to be a tie but also there's always the risk of a tie.

Perfectly clear, thanks.

[bozotheclown]

Also, im just going to pre-empt this with my reasoning for my vote on sweet there, since I think you should also not totally exclude me from the potential bussers.....

In my last readslist I did mention my 4 scum candidates, damo being one of them, and sweet as my hardest to read person in the game.

My reasons to still switch to sweetandcool there over damo:
1: wagon composition, bunny+will+frog (all my favorite townreads) were on it, and had made some compelling arguments.
2: I know ive been fooled by sweet and cool in the past before. While reading some of the sweetandcool posts I actually felt he was slightly more on the towny side, but I actively decided to ignore that feeling and not comment on it since it wasnt good enough of a reason since ive been fooled by that exact play in the past.
3: I know I always tend to wrongly scumread Damo D1. He hardly ever is scum when he appears pretty disinterested. Also, it was Chaqa and ghug voting that wagon.
4: I was never gonna vote bunny to begin with, but his wagon composition was filled with potential scum. (I dont feel foodcoats belongs to that group, but plenty of people scumread him and I need to consider I -could- be wrong in my townread).

Anyways, thisll probably sound completely unneeded to most of you. My vote came at the critical moment to swing the vote to sweetandcool anyway. But at least ive given my reasoning now, so that way if i do somehow survive till later days people wont swing back to re-evaluating my vote from a different light (because it can also be explained from some scum pov im sure).

also, i dont actually think youre scum at all brainbomb.

I think will is town

I think foodcoats is town.

I think bozo is probably town.

I think the 2 new guys are probably town.

I think bunny is probably town

I think scum is in [chaqa, jamiet, damo, HB] - sweet is still hard to read for me

Reason 3 is a contradiction, and as for reason 4, the BunnyGo and sweetandcool wagons each had one voter from your list of 4 possible mafia at the time you placed your vote.

I dont see how reason 3 is a contradiction. I try to kill damo all the time, and he rarely ever is scum when I want to kill him. (also, a wagon with Ghug and Chaqa in that gamestate was just a terrible proposition).

The bunnygo wagon had: SweetAndCool (a proclaimed scum by some of my stronger reads) and a current wagon, HB - whom had done absolutely nothing towny at that point and has gotten worse since, and foodcoats, whom a lot of people have been scumreading. Ghug also crossposted with me and jumped on that wagon, which made it even more hell-no material of me ever changing my vote to it.

SweetAndCool had Will, Frog and Bunny. All of which I liked more than any of the other voters. And they were voting as a block. Damo being there was of little consequence.

It seems like a contradiction to me because you said you did not want to vote for damo despite scum reading him because you often incorrectly scum read him, which you could have taken into consideration previously and not scum read him in the first place.

[Hamilton Brian]

Page 55

Ah right sorry I was only looking at his D1.

Here it was:

Here are the players I suspect:

brainbomb: Tried to protect sweetandcool, and moved off of foodcoats as soon as I put foodcoats in the lead, so possibly bussing foodcoats.

Bozotheclown: Everybody is scum, everybody is scum, everybody is scum, ##ERROR501 BAD READLIST ERROR##

BunnyGo: Willing to vote for any alternative to his own wagon, moved to sweetandcool at a time he would get credit for bussing, sweetandcool could have been bussing him all D1, and sweetandcool did not PR claim with BunnyGo as the counter wagon.

Chaqa: Tried to protect sweetandcool, said he would not vote for sweetandcool, then voted for sweetandcool while he could still get some bussing credit.

damo: Voting for BunnyGo for not changing his vote when sweetandcool also had not changed his vote and had been voting longer could indicate a fabricated reason for the BunnyGo vote, then when sweetandcool brought it up as possible distancing, damo voted for sweetandcool, then returned to vote for sweetandcool at a time that would maximize bussing credit.

foodcoats: Tried to protect sweetandcool, more obviously than scum would normally do to protect teammates, but that's what makes it a good scum play.

Frogsterking: Returned in time to possibly hard bus sweetandcool for vague reasons.

ghug: Possibly bussed sweetandcool early with the factually incorrect claim that he was 2 for 2 at identifying sweetandcool as mafia, moved his vote around to keep the wagons close to possibly copy his town play, then returned to sweetandcool when the vote was decided.

Hamilton: Low level defense of sweetandcool as EOD.

heart: He always votes as town.

Jamie: Hard to believe he did not understand my comment on Vecna.

Just: Possibly decided to bus sweetandcool early this time.

Vecna: Returned in time to vote for sweetandcool at a time that would maximize bussing credit.

@Bozo: This read list is silly. Why did you create it? Who are your actual scumreads, please?

I still suspect everyone to some degree, because I am not very confident on anyone being town.

I don't recall bozo being this "unsure" during a game. Or at least verbalizing it.

[Vecna]

Reason 3 is a contradiction, and as for reason 4, the BunnyGo and sweetandcool wagons each had one voter from your list of 4 possible mafia at the time you placed your vote.

I dont see how reason 3 is a contradiction. I try to kill damo all the time, and he rarely ever is scum when I want to kill him. (also, a wagon with Ghug and Chaqa in that gamestate was just a terrible proposition).

The bunnygo wagon had: SweetAndCool (a proclaimed scum by some of my stronger reads) and a current wagon, HB - whom had done absolutely nothing towny at that point and has gotten worse since, and foodcoats, whom a lot of people have been scumreading. Ghug also crossposted with me and jumped on that wagon, which made it even more hell-no material of me ever changing my vote to it.

SweetAndCool had Will, Frog and Bunny. All of which I liked more than any of the other voters. And they were voting as a block. Damo being there was of little consequence.

It seems like a contradiction to me because you said you did not want to vote for damo despite scum reading him because you often incorrectly scum read him, which you could have taken into consideration previously and not scum read him in the first place.

I think youre a bit too deep into the rabbithole by now, and I think you know its a bit moot at this point.

Give someone else some attention, because theres a lot more plausible options out there.

[bozotheclown]

Your first reason for voting for sweetandcool does not look that good either, because at the time you placed that vote you said you had not read the previous 10 pages, and I am fairly certain Frogsterking at least did not make any compelling arguments about sweetandcool before that (or perhaps ever).

I looked it up and Frogsterking did make a case earlier D1, but it was based mostly on ghug and Just scum reading sweetandcool. However, I could not find any case of BunnyGo making an argument that sweetandcool was mafia, and Just would not say what he thought sweetandcool's scum tell was, which I had not thought was very compelling.

Yeah, why I kept it vague who was doing the casing. I knew Will had more arguments. I felt some others had as well, but I definately did not know who/to what extent. Regardless, all 3 of will/frog/bunny were the voters, meaning the wagon was by far the purest at that time.

OK, but it seems like a lot to be accurate about at the time despite being 10 pages behind, assuming Just, Frogsterking, and BunnyGo are really town, so I still suspect you may have had all that information because you are mafia.

[Hamilton Brian]

I specifically made this entire post because i know my vote should look like bussing to the discerning eye. And because people love to look into deviations from earlier reads.

Which is all fair.

The faulty history also isnt completely great for the optics (although a faulty/bad memory isnt exactly ai, because scum especially want to get their facts straight).

Regardless, the post came from a genuine place, and what I believed in at the time of writing it.

What is a statement like this called in the legal world?

[Jamiet99uk]

I dno when it was, but there was a game where I was townreading him all game and he turned out scum playing a very formidable game.

It stung particularly, because I have fond memories of Sweet's first game on this website, where everyone scumread him all game, but I knew he was town, and I protected him all game from getting killed.

People are clearly more zoned in on his current meta than I am, so I decided to sheep.

Its also a more personal choice on playstyle, as ive decided to be less ego-driven in my reads. My reads have not been as stellar in the last bunch of games ive played, so better to pay more attention to people I feel I can trust.

Maybe you are confusing him with someone else, unless you are talking about a different site, because you were not in sweetandcool's first game here or in either of the previous games where he was mafia.

I was in M83 where he was scum. My memory of him fooling me doesnt seem to hold up very well though, since he got killed D1 while I had barely participated. Maybe ive mixed up the memory with some other players, im not sure.

I guess M82 and M81 werent his first games then, but I did protect him a great deal in those games.

I cant reconcile where the false sweet memories came from

Sweetandcool's first game was M79.

You were not in that game.

[Jamiet99uk]

BunnyGo and ghug suspecting each other as the possibly busser has me thinking that it is possible they are both mafia. I think it would fit with a maximum bussing strategy, and would explain why ghug did not return to voting for sweetandcool sooner.

I did not think it was very likely ghug would bus sweetandcool again after M84, but he could be going with what worked. I think sweetandcool voting for BunnyGo after BunnyGo's first post is the strongest reason to suspect BunnyGo, but maybe that was what sweetandcool was going for.

You are suggesting that BunnyGo, Ghug, and Vecna all decided to bus their team-mate, Sweetandcool, are you?

[Vecna]

I looked it up and Frogsterking did make a case earlier D1, but it was based mostly on ghug and Just scum reading sweetandcool. However, I could not find any case of BunnyGo making an argument that sweetandcool was mafia, and Just would not say what he thought sweetandcool's scum tell was, which I had not thought was very compelling.

Yeah, why I kept it vague who was doing the casing. I knew Will had more arguments. I felt some others had as well, but I definately did not know who/to what extent. Regardless, all 3 of will/frog/bunny were the voters, meaning the wagon was by far the purest at that time.

OK, but it seems like a lot to be accurate about at the time despite being 10 pages behind, assuming Just, Frogsterking, and BunnyGo are really town, so I still suspect you may have had all that information because you are mafia.

I picked the right option between a decent wagon, a shit wagon, and a wagon with Chaqa and Ghug on it. I followed the people I townread. I tried to explain my thought process, even though it was partially flawed (shit happens).

Youre down the tunnel. Whether its coming from a good place, or you just thinking you found an easy tunnel to hide behind, the inquisition is now over.

[Jamiet99uk]

Nearly. Chips are thicker than French fries. We have French fries too.

(French) fries - the stupid thin things they serve with burgers/KFC type stuff

Chips - about 4 times the size of fries full of potato rather than air and less crisp, usually served with fish and in greasy spoon cafes with more or less anything

Crisps - stupid extremely thin potato products served in packets, overpriced, popular in pubs, known in strange places as "chips"

Hope that helps.

Btw the aforementioned SPUD u like is baked potato with various fillings. Do you have that kind of thing?

How do you feel about jojos and tater tots?

A tater tot is basically just a small, cylindrical hash brown. I find them a bit pointless.

What you call "jojos" I think we just call "potato wedges". They can be nice if done well.

[Vecna]

I specifically made this entire post because i know my vote should look like bussing to the discerning eye. And because people love to look into deviations from earlier reads.

Which is all fair.

The faulty history also isnt completely great for the optics (although a faulty/bad memory isnt exactly ai, because scum especially want to get their facts straight).

Regardless, the post came from a genuine place, and what I believed in at the time of writing it.

What is a statement like this called in the legal world?

If youre actually town you'd do well to produce some better content than this, because right now you are the defacto daykill tomorrow.

Im predicting its not gonna come.

[Jamiet99uk]

I specifically made this entire post because i know my vote should look like bussing to the discerning eye. And because people love to look into deviations from earlier reads.

Which is all fair.

The faulty history also isnt completely great for the optics (although a faulty/bad memory isnt exactly ai, because scum especially want to get their facts straight).

Regardless, the post came from a genuine place, and what I believed in at the time of writing it.

What is a statement like this called in the legal world?

I suppose you would call it a Pre-emptive Defence.