Mafia 86: Accidents Happen... - Game Thread

[bozotheclown]

Here are the players I suspect:

brainbomb: Tried to protect sweetandcool, and moved off of foodcoats as soon as I put foodcoats in the lead, so possibly bussing foodcoats.

BunnyGo: Willing to vote for any alternative to his own wagon, moved to sweetandcool at a time he would get credit for bussing, sweetandcool could have been bussing him all D1, and sweetandcool did not PR claim with BunnyGo as the counter wagon.

Chaqa: Tried to protect sweetandcool, said he would not vote for sweetandcool, then voted for sweetandcool while he could still get some bussing credit.

damo: Voting for BunnyGo for not changing his vote when sweetandcool also had not changed his vote and had been voting longer could indicate a fabricated reason for the BunnyGo vote, then when sweetandcool brought it up as possible distancing, damo voted for sweetandcool, then returned to vote for sweetandcool at a time that would maximize bussing credit.

foodcoats: Tried to protect sweetandcool, more obviously than scum would normally do to protect teammates, but that's what makes it a good scum play.

Frogsterking: Returned in time to possibly hard bus sweetandcool for vague reasons.

ghug: Possibly bussed sweetandcool early with the factually incorrect claim that he was 2 for 2 at identifying sweetandcool as mafia, moved his vote around to keep the wagons close to possibly copy his town play, then returned to sweetandcool when the vote was decided.

Hamilton: Low level defense of sweetandcool as EOD.

heart: He always votes as town.

Jamie: Hard to believe he did not understand my comment on Vecna.

Just: Possibly decided to bus sweetandcool early this time.

Vecna: Returned in time to vote for sweetandcool at a time that would maximize bussing credit.

I dont like this Bozo post very much.

It reads very much as "these are all the reasons people could theoretically have" without having to insert any personal feelings or reads into it.

The disconnect people spoke about earlier.

seems exactly like normal bozo to me....

You think it is normal for Bozo to post a long reads list in which he scumreads everybody?

id say it barely registers as peculiar on the bozo scale of things.

And I hadnt even considered darg's take that it might just be jokes.

It was odd for sure, but Bozo often is. Whether he is scum or town is sorta besides the point im making here.

The last part makes me think you might have forgotten you initially said you did not like that post, which make me consider that you could be fabricating your reactions.

[Jamiet99uk]

It's already been discussed a bit, but I always do this. I feel a little bit of joy having been on the wagon when we get it right, and there's some small expected value gain in tie prevention.

Did you believe the vote to be tied at the point you voted?

No. I piled on once I believed the vote to be settled.

So you piled on partly due to the value of tie prevention, after you decided there was no longer the risk of a tie.

Huh?

[Jamiet99uk]

So fries=chips

Chips=crisps

Nearly. Chips are thicker than French fries. We have French fries too.

[Jamiet99uk]

Here are the players I suspect:

brainbomb: Tried to protect sweetandcool, and moved off of foodcoats as soon as I put foodcoats in the lead, so possibly bussing foodcoats.

BunnyGo: Willing to vote for any alternative to his own wagon, moved to sweetandcool at a time he would get credit for bussing, sweetandcool could have been bussing him all D1, and sweetandcool did not PR claim with BunnyGo as the counter wagon.

Chaqa: Tried to protect sweetandcool, said he would not vote for sweetandcool, then voted for sweetandcool while he could still get some bussing credit.

damo: Voting for BunnyGo for not changing his vote when sweetandcool also had not changed his vote and had been voting longer could indicate a fabricated reason for the BunnyGo vote, then when sweetandcool brought it up as possible distancing, damo voted for sweetandcool, then returned to vote for sweetandcool at a time that would maximize bussing credit.

foodcoats: Tried to protect sweetandcool, more obviously than scum would normally do to protect teammates, but that's what makes it a good scum play.

Frogsterking: Returned in time to possibly hard bus sweetandcool for vague reasons.

ghug: Possibly bussed sweetandcool early with the factually incorrect claim that he was 2 for 2 at identifying sweetandcool as mafia, moved his vote around to keep the wagons close to possibly copy his town play, then returned to sweetandcool when the vote was decided.

Hamilton: Low level defense of sweetandcool as EOD.

heart: He always votes as town.

Jamie: Hard to believe he did not understand my comment on Vecna.

Just: Possibly decided to bus sweetandcool early this time.

Vecna: Returned in time to vote for sweetandcool at a time that would maximize bussing credit.

I dont like this Bozo post very much.

It reads very much as "these are all the reasons people could theoretically have" without having to insert any personal feelings or reads into it.

The disconnect people spoke about earlier.

You think it is normal for Bozo to post a long reads list in which he scumreads everybody?

id say it barely registers as peculiar on the bozo scale of things.

And I hadnt even considered darg's take that it might just be jokes.

It was odd for sure, but Bozo often is. Whether he is scum or town is sorta besides the point im making here.

The last part makes me think you might have forgotten you initially said you did not like that post, which make me consider that you could be fabricating your reactions.

Ooooooo.

Robot Detective Bozo has arrived.

[bozotheclown]

BunnyGo and ghug suspecting each other as the possibly busser has me thinking that it is possible they are both mafia. I think it would fit with a maximum bussing strategy, and would explain why ghug did not return to voting for sweetandcool sooner.

I did not think it was very likely ghug would bus sweetandcool again after M84, but he could be going with what worked. I think sweetandcool voting for BunnyGo after BunnyGo's first post is the strongest reason to suspect BunnyGo, but maybe that was what sweetandcool was going for.

[ghug]

Did you believe the vote to be tied at the point you voted?

No. I piled on once I believed the vote to be settled.

So you piled on partly due to the value of tie prevention, after you decided there was no longer the risk of a tie.

Huh?

There's always a risk of a tie. I believed it unlikely Bunny would win.

I do this every game, Jamie.

[bozotheclown]

Also, im just going to pre-empt this with my reasoning for my vote on sweet there, since I think you should also not totally exclude me from the potential bussers.....

In my last readslist I did mention my 4 scum candidates, damo being one of them, and sweet as my hardest to read person in the game.

My reasons to still switch to sweetandcool there over damo:
1: wagon composition, bunny+will+frog (all my favorite townreads) were on it, and had made some compelling arguments.
2: I know ive been fooled by sweet and cool in the past before. While reading some of the sweetandcool posts I actually felt he was slightly more on the towny side, but I actively decided to ignore that feeling and not comment on it since it wasnt good enough of a reason since ive been fooled by that exact play in the past.
3: I know I always tend to wrongly scumread Damo D1. He hardly ever is scum when he appears pretty disinterested. Also, it was Chaqa and ghug voting that wagon.
4: I was never gonna vote bunny to begin with, but his wagon composition was filled with potential scum. (I dont feel foodcoats belongs to that group, but plenty of people scumread him and I need to consider I -could- be wrong in my townread).

Anyways, thisll probably sound completely unneeded to most of you. My vote came at the critical moment to swing the vote to sweetandcool anyway. But at least ive given my reasoning now, so that way if i do somehow survive till later days people wont swing back to re-evaluating my vote from a different light (because it can also be explained from some scum pov im sure).

The fact that you showed up in time to place a critical vote for sweetandcool is what makes your vote look like bussing. The seemingly inaccurate sweetandcool history does not help.

[damo666]

Page 55

Ah right sorry I was only looking at his D1.

Here it was:

Here are the players I suspect:

brainbomb: Tried to protect sweetandcool, and moved off of foodcoats as soon as I put foodcoats in the lead, so possibly bussing foodcoats.

Bozotheclown: Everybody is scum, everybody is scum, everybody is scum, ##ERROR501 BAD READLIST ERROR##

BunnyGo: Willing to vote for any alternative to his own wagon, moved to sweetandcool at a time he would get credit for bussing, sweetandcool could have been bussing him all D1, and sweetandcool did not PR claim with BunnyGo as the counter wagon.

Chaqa: Tried to protect sweetandcool, said he would not vote for sweetandcool, then voted for sweetandcool while he could still get some bussing credit.

damo: Voting for BunnyGo for not changing his vote when sweetandcool also had not changed his vote and had been voting longer could indicate a fabricated reason for the BunnyGo vote, then when sweetandcool brought it up as possible distancing, damo voted for sweetandcool, then returned to vote for sweetandcool at a time that would maximize bussing credit.

foodcoats: Tried to protect sweetandcool, more obviously than scum would normally do to protect teammates, but that's what makes it a good scum play.

Frogsterking: Returned in time to possibly hard bus sweetandcool for vague reasons.

ghug: Possibly bussed sweetandcool early with the factually incorrect claim that he was 2 for 2 at identifying sweetandcool as mafia, moved his vote around to keep the wagons close to possibly copy his town play, then returned to sweetandcool when the vote was decided.

Hamilton: Low level defense of sweetandcool as EOD.

heart: He always votes as town.

Jamie: Hard to believe he did not understand my comment on Vecna.

Just: Possibly decided to bus sweetandcool early this time.

Vecna: Returned in time to vote for sweetandcool at a time that would maximize bussing credit.

@Bozo: This read list is silly. Why did you create it? Who are your actual scumreads, please?

I still suspect everyone to some degree, because I am not very confident on anyone being town.

scumslip

[bozotheclown]

Also, im just going to pre-empt this with my reasoning for my vote on sweet there, since I think you should also not totally exclude me from the potential bussers.....

In my last readslist I did mention my 4 scum candidates, damo being one of them, and sweet as my hardest to read person in the game.

My reasons to still switch to sweetandcool there over damo:
1: wagon composition, bunny+will+frog (all my favorite townreads) were on it, and had made some compelling arguments.
2: I know ive been fooled by sweet and cool in the past before. While reading some of the sweetandcool posts I actually felt he was slightly more on the towny side, but I actively decided to ignore that feeling and not comment on it since it wasnt good enough of a reason since ive been fooled by that exact play in the past.
3: I know I always tend to wrongly scumread Damo D1. He hardly ever is scum when he appears pretty disinterested. Also, it was Chaqa and ghug voting that wagon.
4: I was never gonna vote bunny to begin with, but his wagon composition was filled with potential scum. (I dont feel foodcoats belongs to that group, but plenty of people scumread him and I need to consider I -could- be wrong in my townread).

Anyways, thisll probably sound completely unneeded to most of you. My vote came at the critical moment to swing the vote to sweetandcool anyway. But at least ive given my reasoning now, so that way if i do somehow survive till later days people wont swing back to re-evaluating my vote from a different light (because it can also be explained from some scum pov im sure).

havent read the last 10 pages.

Anything i should know?

Im more inclined to see sweet die than either of damo or bunnygo

##vote sweetandcool

Your first reason for voting for sweetandcool does not look that good either, because at the time you placed that vote you said you had not read the previous 10 pages, and I am fairly certain Frogsterking at least did not make any compelling arguments about sweetandcool before that (or perhaps ever).

[bozotheclown]

Ah right sorry I was only looking at his D1.

Here it was:



@Bozo: This read list is silly. Why did you create it? Who are your actual scumreads, please?

I still suspect everyone to some degree, because I am not very confident on anyone being town.

scumslip

What is?

[damo666]

So fries=chips

Chips=crisps

Nearly. Chips are thicker than French fries. We have French fries too.

(French) fries - the stupid thin things they serve with burgers/KFC type stuff

Chips - about 4 times the size of fries full of potato rather than air and less crisp, usually served with fish and in greasy spoon cafes with more or less anything

Crisps - stupid extremely thin potato products served in packets, overpriced, popular in pubs, known in strange places as "chips"

Hope that helps.

Btw the aforementioned SPUD u like is baked potato with various fillings. Do you have that kind of thing?

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

Ah right sorry I was only looking at his D1.

Here it was:



@Bozo: This read list is silly. Why did you create it? Who are your actual scumreads, please?

I still suspect everyone to some degree, because I am not very confident on anyone being town.

scumslip

Could you Explain? I dont see how.

[Vecna]

When has sweetandcool had the opportunity to fool you in the past?

I dno when it was, but there was a game where I was townreading him all game and he turned out scum playing a very formidable game.

It stung particularly, because I have fond memories of Sweet's first game on this website, where everyone scumread him all game, but I knew he was town, and I protected him all game from getting killed.

People are clearly more zoned in on his current meta than I am, so I decided to sheep.

Its also a more personal choice on playstyle, as ive decided to be less ego-driven in my reads. My reads have not been as stellar in the last bunch of games ive played, so better to pay more attention to people I feel I can trust.

Maybe you are confusing him with someone else, unless you are talking about a different site, because you were not in sweetandcool's first game here or in either of the previous games where he was mafia.

I was in M83 where he was scum. My memory of him fooling me doesnt seem to hold up very well though, since he got killed D1 while I had barely participated. Maybe ive mixed up the memory with some other players, im not sure.

I guess M82 and M81 werent his first games then, but I did protect him a great deal in those games.

I cant reconcile where the false sweet memories came from

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

So fries=chips

Chips=crisps

Nearly. Chips are thicker than French fries. We have French fries too.

(French) fries - the stupid thin things they serve with burgers/KFC type stuff

Chips - about 4 times the size of fries full of potato rather than air and less crisp, usually served with fish and in greasy spoon cafes with more or less anything

Crisps - stupid extremely thin potato products served in packets, overpriced, popular in pubs, known in strange places as "chips"

Hope that helps.

Btw the aforementioned SPUD u like is baked potato with various fillings. Do you have that kind of thing?

We do.

[bozotheclown]

Also, im just going to pre-empt this with my reasoning for my vote on sweet there, since I think you should also not totally exclude me from the potential bussers.....

In my last readslist I did mention my 4 scum candidates, damo being one of them, and sweet as my hardest to read person in the game.

My reasons to still switch to sweetandcool there over damo:
1: wagon composition, bunny+will+frog (all my favorite townreads) were on it, and had made some compelling arguments.
2: I know ive been fooled by sweet and cool in the past before. While reading some of the sweetandcool posts I actually felt he was slightly more on the towny side, but I actively decided to ignore that feeling and not comment on it since it wasnt good enough of a reason since ive been fooled by that exact play in the past.
3: I know I always tend to wrongly scumread Damo D1. He hardly ever is scum when he appears pretty disinterested. Also, it was Chaqa and ghug voting that wagon.
4: I was never gonna vote bunny to begin with, but his wagon composition was filled with potential scum. (I dont feel foodcoats belongs to that group, but plenty of people scumread him and I need to consider I -could- be wrong in my townread).

Anyways, thisll probably sound completely unneeded to most of you. My vote came at the critical moment to swing the vote to sweetandcool anyway. But at least ive given my reasoning now, so that way if i do somehow survive till later days people wont swing back to re-evaluating my vote from a different light (because it can also be explained from some scum pov im sure).

also, i dont actually think youre scum at all brainbomb.

I think will is town

I think foodcoats is town.

I think bozo is probably town.

I think the 2 new guys are probably town.

I think bunny is probably town

I think scum is in [chaqa, jamiet, damo, HB] - sweet is still hard to read for me

Reason 3 is a contradiction, and as for reason 4, the BunnyGo and sweetandcool wagons each had one voter from your list of 4 possible mafia at the time you placed your vote.

[Vecna]

Here are the players I suspect:

brainbomb: Tried to protect sweetandcool, and moved off of foodcoats as soon as I put foodcoats in the lead, so possibly bussing foodcoats.

BunnyGo: Willing to vote for any alternative to his own wagon, moved to sweetandcool at a time he would get credit for bussing, sweetandcool could have been bussing him all D1, and sweetandcool did not PR claim with BunnyGo as the counter wagon.

Chaqa: Tried to protect sweetandcool, said he would not vote for sweetandcool, then voted for sweetandcool while he could still get some bussing credit.

damo: Voting for BunnyGo for not changing his vote when sweetandcool also had not changed his vote and had been voting longer could indicate a fabricated reason for the BunnyGo vote, then when sweetandcool brought it up as possible distancing, damo voted for sweetandcool, then returned to vote for sweetandcool at a time that would maximize bussing credit.

foodcoats: Tried to protect sweetandcool, more obviously than scum would normally do to protect teammates, but that's what makes it a good scum play.

Frogsterking: Returned in time to possibly hard bus sweetandcool for vague reasons.

ghug: Possibly bussed sweetandcool early with the factually incorrect claim that he was 2 for 2 at identifying sweetandcool as mafia, moved his vote around to keep the wagons close to possibly copy his town play, then returned to sweetandcool when the vote was decided.

Hamilton: Low level defense of sweetandcool as EOD.

heart: He always votes as town.

Jamie: Hard to believe he did not understand my comment on Vecna.

Just: Possibly decided to bus sweetandcool early this time.

Vecna: Returned in time to vote for sweetandcool at a time that would maximize bussing credit.

I dont like this Bozo post very much.

It reads very much as "these are all the reasons people could theoretically have" without having to insert any personal feelings or reads into it.

The disconnect people spoke about earlier.

You think it is normal for Bozo to post a long reads list in which he scumreads everybody?

id say it barely registers as peculiar on the bozo scale of things.

And I hadnt even considered darg's take that it might just be jokes.

It was odd for sure, but Bozo often is. Whether he is scum or town is sorta besides the point im making here.

The last part makes me think you might have forgotten you initially said you did not like that post, which make me consider that you could be fabricating your reactions.

There was very little time in between those 2 replies. Clearly my time period for getting forgetfull is about 4 months.

At any rate, I dont see the problem with both not liking the post and stating you often do weird things (which im often not a fan of).

[bozotheclown]

I dno when it was, but there was a game where I was townreading him all game and he turned out scum playing a very formidable game.

It stung particularly, because I have fond memories of Sweet's first game on this website, where everyone scumread him all game, but I knew he was town, and I protected him all game from getting killed.

People are clearly more zoned in on his current meta than I am, so I decided to sheep.

Its also a more personal choice on playstyle, as ive decided to be less ego-driven in my reads. My reads have not been as stellar in the last bunch of games ive played, so better to pay more attention to people I feel I can trust.

Maybe you are confusing him with someone else, unless you are talking about a different site, because you were not in sweetandcool's first game here or in either of the previous games where he was mafia.

I was in M83 where he was scum. My memory of him fooling me doesnt seem to hold up very well though, since he got killed D1 while I had barely participated. Maybe ive mixed up the memory with some other players, im not sure.

I guess M82 and M81 werent his first games then, but I did protect him a great deal in those games.

I cant reconcile where the false sweet memories came from

OK, sorry, I forgot you were in M83, I was not around long in that game, and I was not in M81 or M82, but I remember being in sweetandcool's first game here sometime before that because I was mafia and we managed to get a mis-kill of sweetandcool to end the game.

[Vecna]

Also, im just going to pre-empt this with my reasoning for my vote on sweet there, since I think you should also not totally exclude me from the potential bussers.....

In my last readslist I did mention my 4 scum candidates, damo being one of them, and sweet as my hardest to read person in the game.

My reasons to still switch to sweetandcool there over damo:
1: wagon composition, bunny+will+frog (all my favorite townreads) were on it, and had made some compelling arguments.
2: I know ive been fooled by sweet and cool in the past before. While reading some of the sweetandcool posts I actually felt he was slightly more on the towny side, but I actively decided to ignore that feeling and not comment on it since it wasnt good enough of a reason since ive been fooled by that exact play in the past.
3: I know I always tend to wrongly scumread Damo D1. He hardly ever is scum when he appears pretty disinterested. Also, it was Chaqa and ghug voting that wagon.
4: I was never gonna vote bunny to begin with, but his wagon composition was filled with potential scum. (I dont feel foodcoats belongs to that group, but plenty of people scumread him and I need to consider I -could- be wrong in my townread).

Anyways, thisll probably sound completely unneeded to most of you. My vote came at the critical moment to swing the vote to sweetandcool anyway. But at least ive given my reasoning now, so that way if i do somehow survive till later days people wont swing back to re-evaluating my vote from a different light (because it can also be explained from some scum pov im sure).

The fact that you showed up in time to place a critical vote for sweetandcool is what makes your vote look like bussing. The seemingly inaccurate sweetandcool history does not help.

I specifically made this entire post because i know my vote should look like bussing to the discerning eye. And because people love to look into deviations from earlier reads.

Which is all fair.

The faulty history also isnt completely great for the optics (although a faulty/bad memory isnt exactly ai, because scum especially want to get their facts straight).

Regardless, the post came from a genuine place, and what I believed in at the time of writing it.

[Vecna]

Maybe you are confusing him with someone else, unless you are talking about a different site, because you were not in sweetandcool's first game here or in either of the previous games where he was mafia.

I was in M83 where he was scum. My memory of him fooling me doesnt seem to hold up very well though, since he got killed D1 while I had barely participated. Maybe ive mixed up the memory with some other players, im not sure.

I guess M82 and M81 werent his first games then, but I did protect him a great deal in those games.

I cant reconcile where the false sweet memories came from

OK, sorry, I forgot you were in M83, I was not around long in that game, and I was not in M81 or M82, but I remember being in sweetandcool's first game here sometime before that because I was mafia and we managed to get a mis-kill of sweetandcool to end the game.

Im sure we both have plenty of holes due to games we do not play. It was the first game with sweetandcool and I did have a righteous townread boner for him all game long and went to bat for the kid (at least that memory was very much correct).

[ghug]

So fries=chips

Chips=crisps

Nearly. Chips are thicker than French fries. We have French fries too.

(French) fries - the stupid thin things they serve with burgers/KFC type stuff

Chips - about 4 times the size of fries full of potato rather than air and less crisp, usually served with fish and in greasy spoon cafes with more or less anything

Crisps - stupid extremely thin potato products served in packets, overpriced, popular in pubs, known in strange places as "chips"

Hope that helps.

Btw the aforementioned SPUD u like is baked potato with various fillings. Do you have that kind of thing?

How do you feel about jojos and tater tots?