Mafia 86: Accidents Happen... - Game Thread

[BunnyGo]

I've just had a lightbulb moment. Jamie can't be scum. He would either have made the effort to be on at EOD or signalled to his teammates his anticipated absence (like Bozo did).

So I now think it's Bozo and Ham with a slight chance of deartgorob.

I will not even contemplate a sweet voter until these 3 are accounted for.

Do you consider ghug a sweet voter?

[Jamiet99uk]

I've just had a lightbulb moment. Jamie can't be scum. He would either have made the effort to be on at EOD or signalled to his teammates his anticipated absence (like Bozo did).

So I now think it's Bozo and Ham with a slight chance of deartgorob.

I will not even contemplate a sweet voter until these 3 are accounted for.

deartgorob!!

Lol what a name

[Vecna]

Here are the players I suspect:

brainbomb: Tried to protect sweetandcool, and moved off of foodcoats as soon as I put foodcoats in the lead, so possibly bussing foodcoats.

BunnyGo: Willing to vote for any alternative to his own wagon, moved to sweetandcool at a time he would get credit for bussing, sweetandcool could have been bussing him all D1, and sweetandcool did not PR claim with BunnyGo as the counter wagon.

Chaqa: Tried to protect sweetandcool, said he would not vote for sweetandcool, then voted for sweetandcool while he could still get some bussing credit.

damo: Voting for BunnyGo for not changing his vote when sweetandcool also had not changed his vote and had been voting longer could indicate a fabricated reason for the BunnyGo vote, then when sweetandcool brought it up as possible distancing, damo voted for sweetandcool, then returned to vote for sweetandcool at a time that would maximize bussing credit.

foodcoats: Tried to protect sweetandcool, more obviously than scum would normally do to protect teammates, but that's what makes it a good scum play.

Frogsterking: Returned in time to possibly hard bus sweetandcool for vague reasons.

ghug: Possibly bussed sweetandcool early with the factually incorrect claim that he was 2 for 2 at identifying sweetandcool as mafia, moved his vote around to keep the wagons close to possibly copy his town play, then returned to sweetandcool when the vote was decided.

Hamilton: Low level defense of sweetandcool as EOD.

heart: He always votes as town.

Jamie: Hard to believe he did not understand my comment on Vecna.

Just: Possibly decided to bus sweetandcool early this time.

Vecna: Returned in time to vote for sweetandcool at a time that would maximize bussing credit.

I dont like this Bozo post very much.

It reads very much as "these are all the reasons people could theoretically have" without having to insert any personal feelings or reads into it.

The disconnect people spoke about earlier.

[Vecna]

who took pleasant player will and replaced him with this John Cena caricature.i read these posts and I cannot even recognize this person.

He's being a confident leader-type and he's very effective at it, and he got results.

whats not to like?

[Vecna]

Also, im just going to pre-empt this with my reasoning for my vote on sweet there, since I think you should also not totally exclude me from the potential bussers.....

In my last readslist I did mention my 4 scum candidates, damo being one of them, and sweet as my hardest to read person in the game.

My reasons to still switch to sweetandcool there over damo:
1: wagon composition, bunny+will+frog (all my favorite townreads) were on it, and had made some compelling arguments.
2: I know ive been fooled by sweet and cool in the past before. While reading some of the sweetandcool posts I actually felt he was slightly more on the towny side, but I actively decided to ignore that feeling and not comment on it since it wasnt good enough of a reason since ive been fooled by that exact play in the past.
3: I know I always tend to wrongly scumread Damo D1. He hardly ever is scum when he appears pretty disinterested. Also, it was Chaqa and ghug voting that wagon.
4: I was never gonna vote bunny to begin with, but his wagon composition was filled with potential scum. (I dont feel foodcoats belongs to that group, but plenty of people scumread him and I need to consider I -could- be wrong in my townread).

Anyways, thisll probably sound completely unneeded to most of you. My vote came at the critical moment to swing the vote to sweetandcool anyway. But at least ive given my reasoning now, so that way if i do somehow survive till later days people wont swing back to re-evaluating my vote from a different light (because it can also be explained from some scum pov im sure).

When has sweetandcool had the opportunity to fool you in the past?

I dno when it was, but there was a game where I was townreading him all game and he turned out scum playing a very formidable game.

It stung particularly, because I have fond memories of Sweet's first game on this website, where everyone scumread him all game, but I knew he was town, and I protected him all game from getting killed.

People are clearly more zoned in on his current meta than I am, so I decided to sheep.

Its also a more personal choice on playstyle, as ive decided to be less ego-driven in my reads. My reads have not been as stellar in the last bunch of games ive played, so better to pay more attention to people I feel I can trust.

[Vecna]

I've actually started off looking at bunny again (I am going to look at ghug, Will, brainbomb, and Food, hopefully I have the time).

I thought maybe my scumreading him and voting him based on his first post was harsh, but the more I look at him the more he looks bad.

Bunny's first post seemed insincere because he threw in an obligatory degradation of Will and sweetandcool, when we hadn't done anything yet to warrant it.

His first post of page 3 he decides to townread me, because I mentioned I'm grumpy about life. I still couldn't have possibly done something to make him frustrated with me, and he even references that he needs a better way to read me. Again, this is clearly Bunny saying things he has said in past games, but he has no reason to make those comments.

Third post of page 3 is interesting if Bunny is scum. Could he be teammates with brainbomb?

First post of page 4, maybe it's a casual post or maybe it's a way to spread some stink on me. Bunny seems to want to town me and scum me at the same time.

Last post of page 8 actually makes me mad now that I'm rereading it. Is scum Bunny trying to make us look like teammates?! I'm really not liking his interactions with me (I wasn't planning on cherrypicking his posts that refer to me, but those are the ones that keep pinging me the most).

2nd post of page 9, he agrees with brainbomb and continues to negatively comment on Food. There have been a few posts about Food that don't ping me, but it's interesting how he seems to be buddying brainbomb. Is brainbomb town or are they being obvious partners to the point that we can't think they are partners? Or is it a bus on Food? I haven't felt bad about Food but I do worry about potential pocketing. Food's been too easygoing with me, and it makes me wary.

Several posts later: Jeeze, Bunny become fixated on brainbomb. Not towning or scumming brainbomb really, just mentioning the hell out of him.

Okay, at this point I've concluded Bunny is probably scum. He is currently gunning for Food. Bus or MK?

I was planning on saving Food for last, but I think I'll look at him next. Then onto my accusers.

This speaks very unfavorably of food and accuses him of doing all sorts of things but the post always just comes back to bunny

You dont think its possible & more likely the scum GF was just looking for the easiest other misskills to save his hide?

[Vecna]

Holy magnificent. That was some wagon the killed SweetAndScum. Who drove that because that came out of nowhere. When I voted and left, it was Bunny 3.

Anyway, well done!

Ghug and Just come off pretty good having originally seeming to scum Sweet. I just can't tell when ghug is being serious or ironic.

eh what? he is fully aware it was initially driven by Will, because he spent an entire post lamenting that push.

This does not look kosher.

[Vecna]

I am going to drift away for N1 unless anyone has questions for me.

Top 5 takeaways from the EOD?

Well, I was not around for the final 3-4 hours, but...

1. Happy that we got scum.
2. Mildly surprised as I was not specifically scumkreading S&C and I'll need to go back and understand why his wagon took the lead.
3. Keen for Bozo to stop ignoring me.
4. I still townread Brain and Chaqa
5. I still have suspicions about Frogster.

This post of jamiet reads quite sincere.

Compared to hambone's "im surprised this flipped scum, where did it come from" it reads more genuine as it fits better with jamiet's trajectory this game.

no admitting of missing the bozo joke. just continued suspicion. scum jamiet might be much more intune with that being a bad look, he doesnt seem to gaf.

sticking to a chaqa & brainbomb townread despite it being odd after that EoD.

bringing up suspicions about a slot that looks really towny after that EoD.

Could always be a ballsy scumplay, but this does not appear to want to adhere to any common threads of public thought. Not scared to look bad.

[Vecna]

Haha no but I'm involved with urbanist and cycling advocacy. I might run in 2026 or 2028 to unseat one of the two more obstructive councilors, but who knows.

hate to come back on a not game related post but this is sick

Our city is getting the first protected bike lanes in the region. It's a really big win and probably going to be a watershed moment. I'll be really glad to be able to safely ride my bike to the downtown and grocery store or maybe let my kid ride with me someday

As a dutch person, it always just baffles me how the rest of the world gets by without this super-obvious and easy to implement QoL.

[Vecna]

When did you decide to start scum reading bunny, sweet?

eh, but I could also see the reverse where bb was quick to see the purity of hearththrob....

While I could also see this frog stuff all being very easy questions at a rather close-to-the-surface level.

I've tended to be impressed by Frog's line of questioning.

Ive also changed my mind since the first few pages of the game. Frogster has been pretty solid.

Its a strange style somewhat, but it somehow leads him to the right results. So bravo.

[Vecna]

GM Note:
dargorygel HAS REPLACED heartthrob24909

Full disclosure: darg cannot meaningfully play until mid-tomorrow according to him, but a sub was needed and he was our only volunteer.

nice, its a darg!

[damo666]

I've just had a lightbulb moment. Jamie can't be scum. He would either have made the effort to be on at EOD or signalled to his teammates his anticipated absence (like Bozo did).

So I now think it's Bozo and Ham with a slight chance of deartgorob.

I will not even contemplate a sweet voter until these 3 are accounted for.

Do you consider ghug a sweet voter?

Yes

[foodcoats]

Can we assume that Bunny is townclear based on the logic that if it was between Scum!Bunny and Godfather!Sweet, Bunny would have been bussed hard?

I am comfortable with that if it's not a fallacy.

In which case, if you are indeed town like I assume you are, sorry for the D1 vote.

Not townclear but Bunny is pretty darn good looking from the way sweet treated him.

I've been chewing on this a little bit. Clearly they hate each other, but what do you do if you're scum with the person you dislike?

Obviously I can’t prove this to anyone else at the moment, but when sweet did his big dive on Bunny, he could’ve done it on me (Bunny and I were top wagons), and I know I’m town. I just can’t see why sweet would do that if Bunny is scum unless he was really upset in some way and deliberately going against wincon. The rest of his iso was vague enough that he could have basically written the same thing about Bunny about me instead.

[foodcoats]

Okay that sucks; I wanted to ask questions before posting my reads list and stuff. The important thing is that we need to stop dicking around and kill sweet. I'll post this part and hopefully that will be enough:

Frog was this a quote or your read? Have you played with sweet other than last game?

I just added the quote tags because it was an excerpt of a larger "reads" post I was working on. It made sense to post it that way at the time. I've only played with sweet the one time before.

So I guess I’m wondering, what was your thought process to decide sweet is “polarized” when you had only seen one alignment flip from him?

[foodcoats]

Adding what frog said about sweet for clarity:

Sweet is really polarized and easy to read as scum, even without meta, which is mainly how I'm reading them now (without meta.) It's not that complicated at all to find them as scum.

Frog please explain how you came to this conclusion.

[Vecna]

I have thoughts about Ghug.

-He has extensively talked about how he is perceived as needing to die N1. This would be a bit of a problem as scum. Ergo, a perceived flawed towngame is a nessecity if he rolls scum.
-His positioning around the wagons can be interpreted as rather convenient from a few points of view. He made the claim earlier that sweet was gut-scum. He made good use of that after the flip to excuse his not chasing that wagon down. Everyone feels its a natural progression, and excuses the missed scumvote at a time-critical moment.
-He sheeps damo onto HB (an excellent vote in a world of HB + ghug being the remaining scum, you actually want HB to be the counter to your GF there).
-Then he just jumps on the person that he sheeped a moment before (Damo). Starting a wagon with someone you apparently scumread given your later vote? seems odd, but nothing too painfull.
-Then a jump onto bunny.

All of these actions can be very well explained as working towards the scum victory conditions that Ghug would need in a world where his GF is under real pressure. He took some real shots at saving the GF without getting real scrutiny for it. He is in a very plausible situation where he wont be scrutinized for living long.

Another point that I feel I need to air; I have a very strong gutfeeling that Ghug is doing a lot of micro-things to get on people's good side. He is actively doing things he knows appeal to people he's played with for quite a while. Normally as town he just tends to ignore those people for the most part.

[Vecna]

And that large post is not meant to say I think Ghug is lock-scum. Maybe he's just playing a game where he feels like being slightly nicer than normally.

But I do feel that there is a very realistic world where all of this fits very neatly in a scum motivated ghug-playstyle.

[BunnyGo]

I've just had a lightbulb moment. Jamie can't be scum. He would either have made the effort to be on at EOD or signalled to his teammates his anticipated absence (like Bozo did).

So I now think it's Bozo and Ham with a slight chance of deartgorob.

I will not even contemplate a sweet voter until these 3 are accounted for.

Do you consider ghug a sweet voter?

Yes

Why?

[BunnyGo]

Not townclear but Bunny is pretty darn good looking from the way sweet treated him.

I've been chewing on this a little bit. Clearly they hate each other, but what do you do if you're scum with the person you dislike?

Obviously I can’t prove this to anyone else at the moment, but when sweet did his big dive on Bunny, he could’ve done it on me (Bunny and I were top wagons), and I know I’m town. I just can’t see why sweet would do that if Bunny is scum unless he was really upset in some way and deliberately going against wincon. The rest of his iso was vague enough that he could have basically written the same thing about Bunny about me instead.

He’s bussed hard in the past. Claims that he actively forgets his teammates and hunts.

[BunnyGo]

And that large post is not meant to say I think Ghug is lock-scum. Maybe he's just playing a game where he feels like being slightly nicer than normally.

But I do feel that there is a very realistic world where all of this fits very neatly in a scum motivated ghug-playstyle.

I agree with your post except I don’t think the scum team was worried about sweet. He wasn’t a viable wagon until frog-I (Bunny!)/and damo jumped on with 10 minutes to go after all those other ghug actions you mentioned.


But ghug DID shade sweet early and even mentioned it with 4 hours to go but with 2 hours to go he said sweet was one of two wagons he wouldn’t vote.