Mafia 86: Accidents Happen... - Game Thread

[sweetandcool]

Done with Will. Nothing new to add really. Pretty flabbergasted if this is Town Will.

I would conclude strongly that Will is Mafia, except that other than last game I have scummed Will fairly strongly, even when we were teammates. So maybe I'm just not able to be objective with Will.

But come on, I really don't get his behaviour.

[sweetandcool]

I wanted to look at brain, ghug, and even Frog, but I don't have time other than maybe too close to EoD. Gotta take my kids to the playground.

I'm happy enough though because I think Bunny or Will are both really good votes for today.

[damo666]

No, I’m not doing your homework for you. My way is not perfect but I wouldn’t claim it, and I know with certainty your way isn’t either. It’s extreme hubris on your part and I am glad you are admitting you are so bad at the game.

I'd be curious to hear some outside perspective on this interaction.

This was from m55 food was town:

Here are my reads as of now. Sorry they are not more in depth as they usually would be, a bit short on time and I'm stuck doing this on my phone so quotes are a pain.

town
Vecna - lord of hunter-killers.
Xorxes - wide range of investigation... I felt xorx was tunnelling and was scumreading him as a result but on reading iso there's a lot of thought there, some of it could be faked but there are too many strong opinions for all of it to be
Jamie - investigation of brain, bis. I thought Jamie was locked in angry inquisition mode which seemed scummy but he comes up for air and does synthesis of trends.
Bozo - has made a lot of town and scum reads and basically classified everyone. I think bozo is strong hunting as usual.
Rdr - questions and reasons through things top to bottom, balanced, seems very town process
Flash - lurking hard but I think flash made some suggestions D2 that look pretty towny. I am willing to say flash is town.
Brainbomb - I know brain seems shifty right now but gut check says that's brainbomb. You should be worried when brainbomb acts normal.
Chaqa and emc - i've thrown in my lot here but could be convinced otherwise. I fear chaqa being a 3p survivor neighborizer, it would be a way to get cred. But based on actions seems unlikely. And emc... it's just hard to believe emc would claim such an unlikely story as scum or as continued 3p. Basically im paranoid but pretty dang confident.

Null
DemonRHK - seemed lurky and suspicious early but even at low posting has a very good D2. Thoughtful and pretty well rounded. Might be a few blindspots though so null. I just feel like maybe i'm being tricked.
Darg - seemed natural and fine but darg has a freewheeling style that i find challenging to read. I know darg is good at spitballing ideas even as scum.
Neph - possibly some weird 3p. Also possibly scum playing 2scummy2scum. Also possibly a strong PR trying to avoid NKs.

Scum
Fox - as previously
Damo - poking, prodding, rethinking, up and down... this could be faked though as I don't get any juice. More below.
Summit - D1 is quite good but since then it's pretty blendy except for some analysis of the wagons but this is a good focus for scum, focus on a point in time or one person. Doesn't seem to be taking positions or evolving
Sarah - I have no other explanation for why someone would join a game and not play it

further on my scum reads
In particular I started asking what it is about fox, damo and summit that bothers me. They all have good, townie posts. But in their isos their townie stuff sticks out. It doesn't fit well in the context of the rest of their posts.

Damo is a great example, I found his reasoning on Donny good and I thought it looked like a natural town progression. But nothing else looks like that, everything else is a lot of duds. Damo is doing nothing, kind of shuffling words around.

Similarly summit has these nice wall posts... but they are surrounded by a lot of very deadend pointless questions. I know that feeling, as scum you need to find that burst of energy to produce some good lie, whereas most of the time you're like just trying to be active and not obviously scummy.

And fox as I said before, it's a lot of commenting and rehashing. I think he was able to look good wanking on about emc because that was basically D2, but if you look close he's not contributing, he's just respewing.

And as town in M69

Assuming worcejadil is scum, I think in retrospect I’m wrong about Maniac. It is definitely possible two scum bussed their partner and got him tied with a town wagon, but I figured it’s not terribly likely.

I assume on the Bona wagon therefore that

Vecna is clear - RBd scum
BobMcBob is up for debate
Damo is strongly town for the way he acted during the Kakarroto flash wagon
lfischlbomb is up for debate
snowy801 is clear for being saved
Ghug is dedtown
celaph is dedtown
Maniac is probtown if kak and worceadil both scum

I feel decently about the vanity voters… bozo, Macca, rdr. I was pretty sold Jamie is town too.

That would imply some combo of HB/lfischbomb/Bob is the remaining two scum… or at least the best characters to investigate from my POE.

i looked in his scum games and didnt find any games where he made reads as mafia. Will keep looking

nice research

I'm pretty convinced food is town

[damo666]

87 minutes to go and a 4 way tie

I would encourage people to vote sweet or bunny

[ghug]

No, I’m not doing your homework for you. My way is not perfect but I wouldn’t claim it, and I know with certainty your way isn’t either. It’s extreme hubris on your part and I am glad you are admitting you are so bad at the game.

I'd be curious to hear some outside perspective on this interaction.

This was from m55 food was town:

Here are my reads as of now. Sorry they are not more in depth as they usually would be, a bit short on time and I'm stuck doing this on my phone so quotes are a pain.

town
Vecna - lord of hunter-killers.
Xorxes - wide range of investigation... I felt xorx was tunnelling and was scumreading him as a result but on reading iso there's a lot of thought there, some of it could be faked but there are too many strong opinions for all of it to be
Jamie - investigation of brain, bis. I thought Jamie was locked in angry inquisition mode which seemed scummy but he comes up for air and does synthesis of trends.
Bozo - has made a lot of town and scum reads and basically classified everyone. I think bozo is strong hunting as usual.
Rdr - questions and reasons through things top to bottom, balanced, seems very town process
Flash - lurking hard but I think flash made some suggestions D2 that look pretty towny. I am willing to say flash is town.
Brainbomb - I know brain seems shifty right now but gut check says that's brainbomb. You should be worried when brainbomb acts normal.
Chaqa and emc - i've thrown in my lot here but could be convinced otherwise. I fear chaqa being a 3p survivor neighborizer, it would be a way to get cred. But based on actions seems unlikely. And emc... it's just hard to believe emc would claim such an unlikely story as scum or as continued 3p. Basically im paranoid but pretty dang confident.

Null
DemonRHK - seemed lurky and suspicious early but even at low posting has a very good D2. Thoughtful and pretty well rounded. Might be a few blindspots though so null. I just feel like maybe i'm being tricked.
Darg - seemed natural and fine but darg has a freewheeling style that i find challenging to read. I know darg is good at spitballing ideas even as scum.
Neph - possibly some weird 3p. Also possibly scum playing 2scummy2scum. Also possibly a strong PR trying to avoid NKs.

Scum
Fox - as previously
Damo - poking, prodding, rethinking, up and down... this could be faked though as I don't get any juice. More below.
Summit - D1 is quite good but since then it's pretty blendy except for some analysis of the wagons but this is a good focus for scum, focus on a point in time or one person. Doesn't seem to be taking positions or evolving
Sarah - I have no other explanation for why someone would join a game and not play it

further on my scum reads
In particular I started asking what it is about fox, damo and summit that bothers me. They all have good, townie posts. But in their isos their townie stuff sticks out. It doesn't fit well in the context of the rest of their posts.

Damo is a great example, I found his reasoning on Donny good and I thought it looked like a natural town progression. But nothing else looks like that, everything else is a lot of duds. Damo is doing nothing, kind of shuffling words around.

Similarly summit has these nice wall posts... but they are surrounded by a lot of very deadend pointless questions. I know that feeling, as scum you need to find that burst of energy to produce some good lie, whereas most of the time you're like just trying to be active and not obviously scummy.

And fox as I said before, it's a lot of commenting and rehashing. I think he was able to look good wanking on about emc because that was basically D2, but if you look close he's not contributing, he's just respewing.

And as town in M69

Assuming worcejadil is scum, I think in retrospect I’m wrong about Maniac. It is definitely possible two scum bussed their partner and got him tied with a town wagon, but I figured it’s not terribly likely.

I assume on the Bona wagon therefore that

Vecna is clear - RBd scum
BobMcBob is up for debate
Damo is strongly town for the way he acted during the Kakarroto flash wagon
lfischlbomb is up for debate
snowy801 is clear for being saved
Ghug is dedtown
celaph is dedtown
Maniac is probtown if kak and worceadil both scum

I feel decently about the vanity voters… bozo, Macca, rdr. I was pretty sold Jamie is town too.

That would imply some combo of HB/lfischbomb/Bob is the remaining two scum… or at least the best characters to investigate from my POE.

i looked in his scum games and didnt find any games where he made reads as mafia. Will keep looking

It's worth noting that these are both much later in the game.

[brainbomb]

##Vote chaqa

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

Ah, good catch by Ghug there.

Im starting to hard townlean ghug

[damo666]

##Vote chaqa

5 way tie lol

[damo666]

Ah, good catch by Ghug there.

Im starting to hard townlean ghug

I don't think it's the least AI. However I doubt ghug and food are both scum.

[brainbomb]

This type of wagon science is always great

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

I think sweets scumread of me is self defense.

[foodcoats]

I would like to say, with a slightly cooler head, that my rage at ghug is perhaps better explained by way of sweetandcool's tutelage of me in the last game, that I was scumreading people who play town differently than I do, and at the end of the game when I saw sweet was town - when I had tunnelled, in my head, that he must be scum - it was a revelation for me, and something I have pondered on in this game so far.

I think that ghug has largely scumread me for playing town differently than he does, and this made my blood boil.

But enough on that. I wanted to ensure that all the people voting for me were very clear in their reasons for the benefit of future town. I think we have enough material from ghug and bozo.

[damo666]

@food do you think either or both of ghug and bozo are scum?

[damo666]

@Will why are you soooo convinced on sweet?

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

@Will why are you soooo convinced on sweet?

I was strong on sweet, but then once I assumed no one else would vote him, and subsequently I voted Bunny, he freaked out and tried to convince other people that I was a better candidate.

I have no idea why town would do something like this.

[damo666]

71 mins to go and 5 way tie

why so quiet?

[sweetandcool]

I don't understand why the wagons are how they are. Bunny and Will seem like extremely good candidates. Why are people being hung up on others? Like I understand some of the paranoia, but it seems pretty clear who we should be voting for here.

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

71 mins to go and 5 way tie

why so quiet?

Idk. I think people are worried about saying something to make themselves the lead wagon or something.

[damo666]

@Will why are you soooo convinced on sweet?

I was strong on sweet, but then once I assumed no one else would vote him, and subsequently I voted Bunny, he freaked out and tried to convince other people that I was a better candidate.

I have no idea why town would do something like this.

But why originally so strong on sweet?

[ghug]

I'm good with any of these wagons other than Chaqa. Sweet is probably my next least favorite at this point. I townread Bozo, brain, and Chaqa.

The primary motivation of my food vote was to see what would happen. The reads list pinged me a little but it was definitely not my strongest scumread at that point. The reaction, though, is really irking me.