Mafia 86: Accidents Happen... - Game Thread

[brainbomb]

[quote=brainbomb post_id=377885 time=<a href="tel:1707235228">1707235228</a> user_id=62]
yea I think frog probably thinks this is what he does as town

However. No two games are alike anyway as bunny and chaqa have so eloquently illustrated.

so this could be frog trying to assert what he lacked last game where he had only townreads and struggled to find ways to pressure people.

Last game his townreads were based on interactions it seemed like. It came off as kinda scummy in its execution.

Its a small sample size of comparison.

To be fair though, Frogster played very well last game, and I see no reason for him to change.
[/quote]

yea. he did, I was thinking about how I didnt trust him last game but everyone else did. There was a bloc of town who all saw his easy townreads he was producing on people and were not troubled by it.

Some gaps in his play was not explaining his reads well, asking questions but not holding peoples feet to the fire.

I think I was one of the few who found fault with his style.

So yea, not sure what to conclude here.

[brainbomb]

Frog is not producing a large body of townreads like he did in prior game either

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

Frog is not producing a large body of townreads like he did in prior game either

Dunno about this tho…

His 1st, 2nd, and 7th posts, basically half of his early game posts were all townreads.

WAY to early, and there was no inclination these were jokes.

[sweetandcool]

Snip

I am trying to avoid leaning on meta too much, but Frog does not seem to be playing materially different from last game. Is there any post in particular that seems fake?

Well honestly it’s just a vibe I got after seeing someone else point it out, but the “Give me reads on 5 players” was really sus.

This makes me think that Frog was trying to get Chaqa to say someone was mafia-leaning to make Chaqa an outsider to that person. Bonus points if more than one!

Usually I really hate this kind of arbitrary speculation from others but I actually think I could be right about this.

Okay but to be fair, Frog did similar posts last game, did he not?

He does seem slightly different this game, not necessarily in a bad way. I have him as null.

[brainbomb]

Frog is not producing a large body of townreads like he did in prior game either

Dunno about this tho…

His 1st, 2nd, and 7th posts, basically half of his early game posts were all townreads.

WAY to early, and there was no inclination these were jokes.

This is my fualt for not fully rereading but some of those townreads were leaving alot to be desired. hard to know the motivations behind them if they were from a scum position too however

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

Frog is not producing a large body of townreads like he did in prior game either

Dunno about this tho…

His 1st, 2nd, and 7th posts, basically half of his early game posts were all townreads.

WAY to early, and there was no inclination these were jokes.

This is my fualt for not fully rereading but some of those townreads were leaving alot to be desired. hard to know the motivations behind them if they were from a scum position too however

The difference is that those were in the middle of the game, and these were posts 1, 2, and 7 for him.

[brainbomb]

When im mafia im usually strategic about who I townread

Its like:
-people I want to pocket and cajole
-people who are my teammates
-people who I can look good by playing the devils advocate on

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

When im mafia im usually strategic about who I townread

Its like:
-people I want to pocket and cajole
-people who are my teammates
-people who I can look good by playing the devils advocate on

I think everyone here pays way too much to the small details. I never pay attention to my pocketing or whatever. I just play how I feel like.

Riding with the flow of the waaaaaves maaaaaaan

[brainbomb]

To the GR:

Weak opening by food. But so weak he’d not do it as scum.

Ah well. I hope SOMEBODY starts posting. This game is dull.

Another reason I like staying quiet and sending these thoughts to the GT, I’m aware of my ability to suck the oxygen from the room. I’d like to listen more and give others space to talk.

staying on food. Initially thought his opener post was something I see mafia do normally - weigh in on some irrelevant topic.

His posts did not move me into thinking hes town for any reason after that either

To the GT:

Excellent call out. Food’s opening was nowhere near as towny as last game.

Good on BB for not leaving that in the dustbin.

Anyways, food seems to be obv towning a bit better now.

Bunny wants food to be town.
he very strongly wants foods opening to be normal, thought of as normal, and then likes me calling it out as scummy. Then sees food produce a townread on sweet and decides that food is obv town for that.

its bunny not wanting to deal with the possiblity that food may have rolled scum this time. He doesnt want to live in a realm where thats a possibility.

This makes bunny town, not likely going hard to bat for a scum buddy here; however it is bunny getting the wrong answer because its the answer that helps him sleep best at night.

Food is still mafia

[BunnyGo]

To the GR:

Weak opening by food. But so weak he’d not do it as scum.

Ah well. I hope SOMEBODY starts posting. This game is dull.

Another reason I like staying quiet and sending these thoughts to the GT, I’m aware of my ability to suck the oxygen from the room. I’d like to listen more and give others space to talk.

staying on food. Initially thought his opener post was something I see mafia do normally - weigh in on some irrelevant topic.

His posts did not move me into thinking hes town for any reason after that either

To the GT:

Excellent call out. Food’s opening was nowhere near as towny as last game.

Good on BB for not leaving that in the dustbin.

Anyways, food seems to be obv towning a bit better now.

Bunny wants food to be town.
he very strongly wants foods opening to be normal, thought of as normal, and then likes me calling it out as scummy. Then sees food produce a townread on sweet and decides that food is obv town for that.

its bunny not wanting to deal with the possiblity that food may have rolled scum this time. He doesnt want to live in a realm where thats a possibility.

This makes bunny town, not likely going hard to bat for a scum buddy here; however it is bunny getting the wrong answer because its the answer that helps him sleep best at night.

Food is still mafia

To the GT:

Normally I find value with these posts of mine because I can go back later and remind myself what I was thinking in the moment and put together thoughts.

I am liking BB doing this for me in real time. That’s nice.

Not sure I like him psychoanalyzing me. But his point is correct, I would prefer if food were town.

[ghug]

bunny is saying me or ghug - one of us has to be mafia and hes assuming its ghug. i was asking why either of us got to that point.

I think you're doing the thing where you take two things someone has said and assume they're connected.

ghug and brain not scum together
and then later
ghug scum
does not imply
brain scum if ghug town

But, it does imply exactly that, unless the first statement no longer stands.

No. We could both still be town. The ghug is scum read is independent of brain and comes later. It's reasonable to conclude he thinks brain is town unless he updates the early assertion, but not that we're a difference check.

[ghug]

Give me reads on at least 5 players please

Definitely doesn't sound like last game.

Have you played elsewhere, or is this your second game? Are you good at Diplomacy?

I've played elsewhere. The second question is difficult to answer, I like to think I'm good but I'm probably just average.

What do you mean by "doesn't sound like last game" ?

Last game turned out to not be about reading people.

[ghug]

But, it does imply exactly that, unless the first statement no longer stands.

To the GT:

Didn't jamie have to study logic when he learned rhetoric?

Maybe he's getting lost in ghug's bad rhetoric, but ghug's logic is solid.

I have never studied formal logic but I think you are wrong.

Statement 1: Person A and Person B do not share Property X.
Statement 2: Person A possesses Property X.
Implies: Person B does not possess Property X.

Right, but in this case, you're concluding an additional implication: "if statement 2 is wrong, person B must possess property X". You'd need the inverse of Statement 1 to also be true.

[sweetandcool]

Definitely doesn't sound like last game.

Have you played elsewhere, or is this your second game? Are you good at Diplomacy?

I've played elsewhere. The second question is difficult to answer, I like to think I'm good but I'm probably just average.

What do you mean by "doesn't sound like last game" ?

Last game turned out to not be about reading people.

D1 and maybe N1 was.

But yeah, after that the game devolved into no longer being a Mafia game.

[ghug]

Also I think this is the first time I’ve ever learnt something about food that stuck with me: he GMs with sacrificial dice and will sacrifice TPK to keep them feed from the spirit world.

To the GT:

What is Bunny on about here?

To the GT:

Jimbo seems off. Not scummy off. But like distracted off.

He can’t decipher ghug’s bad rhetoric to see he mistranslated the logic. He hasn’t read food closely enough to see the D&D posts.


Anyways, food seems to be obv towning a bit better now.

Bunny's typically more inclined to intentionally attempt to provoke me when he's scum.

[brainbomb]

So did you know that when you wrote the above post it was 25 pages into that game?

And what is the cutoff like 20 pages? 17 pages?

Or was it all that mech talk that was cooking the game also

I find this line of questioning irrelevant and unproductive so I’m not going to engage it.

To the GT:

Yeah...this is weird from BB.

Why is he comparing Chaqa to last game minutes after saying he don't do that?

Why is he needling him about a stupid thing about the number of pages he can read?

Maybe he doesn't know how to engage with Chaqa? Wonder why though.

this whole line of thinking that follows bothers me a little.

Mostly because what I asked chaqa was why 12 pages to reread didnt bother him. Last game 25 pages was too many. In the example games I researched he faked being annoyed about things. He pretended in M62 that 40’pages was way too many. This was a game where chaqa was snarky, sarcastic and used volume as a talking point to pretend to be town.

Here are some things chaqa did as a SCUM MVP in M62
-was sarcastic in replies
-obstinate and snarky
-complained/brought up page totals and how many posts there were

compared to what happened last night
-snarky and sarcastic in reply

-made light of there being 12 pages but seemed fine with it

-refused to express where his threshold was for too many pages

-assumed id scumread him no matter how he answered

-threatened to sub out over the barest most minimal of pressure

-claims to have no meta

-ghug defends chaqa that my past pushes on him make it
More likely that chaqa just doesnt wanna deal with bb

-proceeds to taunt and encourage the idea that maybe he is scum

-pledges not to even reread now out of how frustrated he is


I dont see how you could come away from this focused on that my research concluded chaqa is town this game. Seems bunny once again just wants chaqa to be town so badly that he would rather focus on false conclusions I apparently came too -which I didnt-

Again bunny is so disconnected from whats happening he is missing scumtells and losing focus on the game. The gimmick is becoming more important than hunting.

as for how I feel about chaqa I think he played up the victim card and used appeal to emotion to sway ghug and it appears it worked on mostly everyone.

Id expect scum chaqa to now feel quite safe and to not take a whole lot of risks in producing any content and instead just ride the notion that he doesnt care about day 1

[ghug]

I think you're doing the thing where you take two things someone has said and assume they're connected.

ghug and brain not scum together
and then later
ghug scum
does not imply
brain scum if ghug town

I noticed this as well but don’t find it inherently scummy for brainbomb to make leaps in logic (although I won’t give him town points for doing so).

I do find it interesting that ghug seems to be investing more energy into correcting others than making his own insights.

Correct that this is NAI for brainbomb.

This is also typical ghug. I always find myself agreeing with him and consequently scumreading him (from paranoia). So far he is null for me, but that's probably because we haven't substantially interacted yet.

Hi sweet.

I don't think this is typical ghug. I agree with food's assessment of my play thus far, especially given that he seemingly hadn't seen the Chaqa interaction yet.

[Chaqa]

Oh it's nice to see we're back on this quinoa bullshit brain

[ghug]

I am trying to avoid leaning on meta too much, but Frog does not seem to be playing materially different from last game. Is there any post in particular that seems fake?

Well honestly it’s just a vibe I got after seeing someone else point it out, but the “Give me reads on 5 players” was really sus.

This makes me think that Frog was trying to get Chaqa to say someone was mafia-leaning to make Chaqa an outsider to that person. Bonus points if more than one!

Usually I really hate this kind of arbitrary speculation from others but I actually think I could be right about this.

Okay but to be fair, Frog did similar posts last game, did he not?

He does seem slightly different this game, not necessarily in a bad way. I have him as null.

##VOTE sweetandcool

My gut hasn't failed me yet.

[ghug]

I find this line of questioning irrelevant and unproductive so I’m not going to engage it.

To the GT:

Yeah...this is weird from BB.

Why is he comparing Chaqa to last game minutes after saying he don't do that?

Why is he needling him about a stupid thing about the number of pages he can read?

Maybe he doesn't know how to engage with Chaqa? Wonder why though.

this whole line of thinking that follows bothers me a little.

Mostly because what I asked chaqa was why 12 pages to reread didnt bother him. Last game 25 pages was too many. In the example games I researched he faked being annoyed about things. He pretended in M62 that 40’pages was way too many. This was a game where chaqa was snarky, sarcastic and used volume as a talking point to pretend to be town.

Here are some things chaqa did as a SCUM MVP in M62
-was sarcastic in replies
-obstinate and snarky
-complained/brought up page totals and how many posts there were

compared to what happened last night
-snarky and sarcastic in reply

-made light of there being 12 pages but seemed fine with it

-refused to express where his threshold was for too many pages

-assumed id scumread him no matter how he answered

-threatened to sub out over the barest most minimal of pressure

-claims to have no meta

-ghug defends chaqa that my past pushes on him make it
More likely that chaqa just doesnt wanna deal with bb

-proceeds to taunt and encourage the idea that maybe he is scum

-pledges not to even reread now out of how frustrated he is


I dont see how you could come away from this focused on that my research concluded chaqa is town this game. Seems bunny once again just wants chaqa to be town so badly that he would rather focus on false conclusions I apparently came too -which I didnt-

Again bunny is so disconnected from whats happening he is missing scumtells and losing focus on the game. The gimmick is becoming more important than hunting.

as for how I feel about chaqa I think he played up the victim card and used appeal to emotion to sway ghug and it appears it worked on mostly everyone.

Id expect scum chaqa to now feel quite safe and to not take a whole lot of risks in producing any content and instead just ride the notion that he doesnt care about day 1

Two things:
12 is a relatively low page count. I thought this was obvious but I think it's worth clarifying at this point.
I really don't think Chaqa consciously manipulates with that appeal to emotion. If he's scum, he was legitimately grumpy. I think that's less likely, though.